Decline Visual Novel Recomendation Thread

[Arthandas]

Haha, who is changing a-nime to "shitty Japanese pornographic cartoons"? xD

 

[Silentstorm]

I'm trying to drag myself through Muv-Luv and while it's technically competent and has good presentation, it's also written fairly witlessly and its setup is so very typical and bland.

I read through Planetarian earlier this year and it's good imo. I like a story that gives you a limited perspective on a much wider world and it does a good job of selling you on that...

Digimon Survive came out, it's shockingly a high budget visual novel most of the time, aside from some SRPG required story battles and sometimes where you can fight(no random battles, just given the option to grind but in easy mode it's not needed) because otherwise it's really a VN, you read text, talk to characters, pick options with different routes and so forth, so far the writing is shockingly decent.

Also, unlike the original shitty Japanese pornographic cartoons, they know a lot of people who would play a Digimon VN are teens or adults so...there are actual human deaths and even part of the roster can die if you screw things up, sorry, supporting character whose name i won't say for spoiler reasons, it sucks you got killed by a Digimon!

...Also, they aren't called Digimon in-universe for some reason, mostly because they did away with the digital monsters thing, at least so far, they are treated as regular flesh and blood monsters with no real categorization, they complain about being called monsters...but as the human characters say, they really don't have other ways to describe them, and i love that a kid treats evolution as a dramatic superhero power-up...also acknowledging it's because of the bonds between humans and Digimon which makes humans a target from power hungry, evil or ambitious Digimon who will gladly kidnap and experiment on humans to get a free evolution out of stuff, you pretty quickly have to solve a kidnapping in-game even...though it turns out to be something worse than expected.

If I really fucking hate typical Japanese tactical RPGs with zero depth but which nontheless take a billion hours to play out, would I be able to find enjoyment in this?

The game doesn't take a billion hours to play and you can mostly ignore grinding, though enemies at the end suffer from having too much HP and defense, and ignore it all you want, the battles are really basic and there is no depth...how so?

The game can play itself and has an easy mode, as in, you can pause mid-battle, go to the options, and make the game play itself in any battle, the developer knew the SRPG parts were so basic and boring you can ignore them...just wish they removed the SRPG parts altogether honestly because the game is only good as a VN.

One thing, you can't obtain the best ending in the first playthrough, it's impossible, only at the 2nd one and even then you have to wait until the end of chapter 3 to see some changes and i think it takes until chapter 7 for the golden best ending route to really start getting different, and it's not as if characters remember the first playthrough or there is a time loop scenario, none of that, the game just refuses to let you play the best ending first.

 

[Sukhāvatī]

 

[Retardo]

This was a pleasant little surprise

not japanese, though, and only 6h to get all the endings

 

[Carpincho Pampeano]

Why do they have to make heroines platform exclusive? The one voiced by Chiwa Saitou is exclusive to the fucking PS3 and i can't find the fucking package anywhere.

 

[karoliner]

https://www.spike-chunsoft.com/news/regarding-the-steam-version-of-chaoshead-noah/

Regarding the Steam Version of CHAOS;HEAD NOAH​

By sceditor on September 30, 2022 9:50 AM

Spike Chunsoft, Inc. today regrets to announce that it will not be able to release CHAOS;HEAD NOAH on Steam as originally planned due to Steam's guideline-required changes to the game's content. Spike Chunsoft, Inc. believes these changes would not allow the game to be released to its standards.

The company extends its sincerest apologies to all of the fans looking forward to this release.

The company is looking into delivering the title through alternative storefronts, and when details are decided will make another formal announcement. Until then your patience and understanding is appreciated.

Please also rest assured the Nintendo Switch version is not affected and will release on October 7, 2022, as scheduled.

Steam has standards?

 

[Sarathiour]

Explain.

 

[Arthandas]

Steam has standards?

They're talking about their standards, not Steam's.

I'm also curious what's the problem, as far as I know this doesn't even have any porn in it.

 

[Sarathiour]

Plenty of VN porn on Steam.

 

[arekks]

One of Steam's main advantages is that they allow ecchi and general pornographic content that for eg. Epic would never allow. It's why you can currently buy a game called "SEX with HITLER" on Steam. If they're going to fuck with us on this then I'm not going to continue defending them
edit: while I'm here, I recently read through the Muv-Luv series til about halfway through Alternative. Anyone considering reading these should probably do something else with their time.

 

[Arthandas]

edit: while I'm here, I recently read through the Muv-Luv series til about halfway through Alternative. Anyone considering reading these should probably do something else with their time.

Couldn't agree more. One of maybe 2 VNs I've bought and couldn't force myself to finish. The story is dumb and boring, characters are super shallow and tropey (everyone is basically a walking cumdumpster that ends up fucking the protag), dialogs feel like something written by a teenager...
I genuinely don't understand the praise it gets everywhere.

 

[arekks]

edit: while I'm here, I recently read through the Muv-Luv series til about halfway through Alternative. Anyone considering reading these should probably do something else with their time.

Couldn't agree more. One of maybe 2 VNs I've bought and couldn't force myself to finish. The story is dumb and boring, characters are super shallow and tropey (everyone is basically a walking cumdumpster that ends up fucking the protag), dialogs feel like something written by a teenager...
I genuinely don't understand the praise it gets everywhere.

How far did you get?

I don't mind Extra that much. It's a mediocre high-school romance VN with an especially bland scenario but it has a sense of humour, it's sort of fun to read through.
Unlimited is basically the same thing with a different paint of coat and less humour & production values. It's bad.
Alternative is the one I really hate. The scenario itself is fine— it has a mix of really interesting ideas & themes along with some really retarded shit that beggars belief— but the way it's written is completely intolerable. It feels like 80% of the script is superfluous. It's either the main character reacting to stuff that just happened, or it's circular dialogues about the themes they're trying to work in... or beyond that it's the main character just going off on an endless monologue about nothing.
I'm determined to see the end of this one. I was going to write it off, but I don't feel happy starting another VN without finishing my business here.
Anyway, I haven't gotten to this yet, but apparently there's a completely inexplicable scene where

Spoiler

Sumika gets tentacle raped and enjoys it, just before having her brain put in a jar

 

[Retardo]

Well, what did you guys expect from muv-luv in the first place?
Despite what the weebs are preaching, 99% of VNs aren't "deep", and can't give you the kind of intellectual satisfaction a proper book can.

They are what they are, shaped and defined by the target audience and genre traditions. You wouldn't expect great literary value from pulp fiction, or isekai-style fantasy where an average joe is transported to middle-earth and saves the day, would you?

They kinda stand out from other vidya games because of three things.
First, an average modern human is an uncultured pleb, accustomed to being drip-fed by shitty modern mass media or equally shitty pseudo-intellectual media for people "who are not like the masses".
Second, 99% of plots in vidya are utter shit, even worse than the aforementioned mass media shit.
Third, jap writers are culturally different from the western ones, resulting in their works having an air of novelty for us.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

I am always fascinated by people fetizhizing books. As if 90% of books read weren't either a 3th rate fantasy or romance novel so cheap it would make a porn fanfiction writer blush.

 

[Sarathiour]

I am always fascinated by people fetizhizing books. As if 90% of books read weren't either a 3th rate fantasy or romance novel so cheap it would make a porn fanfiction writer blush.

Women represent the vast majority of book reader, the next part is redditor who also read read trash.

The truth is no one read books anymore, and as pointed out by Retardo, it leaves an opening for VN as a derivative from culture people no longer know.

 

[Retardo]

I am always fascinated by people fetizhizing books. As if 90% of books read weren't either a 3th rate fantasy or romance novel so cheap it would make a porn fanfiction writer blush.

That's the point.

Muv-Luv is good for what it is: extra as a highschool romcom with a pinch of mostly boring drama, unlimited as a mecha/war romcom with a side portion of expected drama, and alternative as a time-space shenanigans of a PTSDd child soldier, with a boatload of unnecessary tragedy.

I've been reading it recently, blind, without expecting any masterpiece it was advertised as on vndb, and found it pretty decent, even though it definitely goes over the top with pain and suffering inflicted upon the protag and the cast.
I'd like to compare it to the classical star wars trilogy, or that Moorcock's cycle about the eternal warriors and some chaos vs order shit: while the plot and characterisation are obviously stupid and there are certain flaws, the whole things holds a certain charm, partly because of how delightfully outdated it feels in 2022.

 

[Sarathiour]

I did not read Muv-Luv because I read a grand total of 3 different VN, but I'm pretty sure the point still stand.

 

[Lucumo]

The truth is no one read books anymore, and as pointed out by Retardo, it leaves an opening for VN as a derivative from culture people no longer know.

I still read books...but I keep to older ones exclusively, as basically everything these days is trash.

I've been reading it recently, blind, without expecting any masterpiece it was advertised as on vndb...

Yeah, VNDB is the MAL of the VN community, with titles being often way overrated. The main issue is, though, that there is no good alternative.

 

[arekks]

Muv-Luv Alternative's scenario is half-retarded but basically fine, my issue is that it's written like the reader is a child. They can't have a single interesting thing happen without also including hours of repetitive, circular dialogues that consist of the same lines reworded about ten or so times each & which go nowhere, and scenes where the main character has a monologue about a thing that just happened, perhaps even a flashback to it if the writer/s were feeling the right level of contempt for their audience at that moment. Literally like 99% of the text in this fucking thing is Takeru speculating on things that have just happened, or having a big thinky about Theme X for the 100th time just to make sure the reader 'gets' where the writer is going, or other such time-wasting text.

Partway through there's a long briefing scene for a training event where they explain the rules of the three parts of the event at length, with specific illustrative artwork. But then they just skip it all anyway. It makes no sense to include that scene, which doesn't really have any other importance. And that's the kind of thing Muv-Luv Alternative is. It feels like parody at points how far they go to really stretch the word count.

I don't mind reading some amount of schlock either, it just need to be entertaining and anything written in this way cannot be entertaining, at least for me (high IQ, impeccable). It's a shame because I think I'd like it if it they hired an editor to cut off about 3/4 of the word count (which you could probably do and have it not be obvious, lol)

 

[Derringer]

Muv-Luv Alternative's scenario is half-retarded but basically fine, my issue is that it's written like the reader is a child. They can't have a single interesting thing happen without also including hours of repetitive, circular dialogues that consist of the same lines reworded about ten or so times each & which go nowhere, and scenes where the main character has a monologue about a thing that just happened, perhaps even a flashback to it if the writer/s were feeling the right level of contempt for their audience at that moment. Literally like 99% of the text in this fucking thing is Takeru speculating on things that have just happened, or having a big thinky about Theme X for the 100th time just to make sure the reader 'gets' where the writer is going, or other such time-wasting text.

Partway through there's a long briefing scene for a training event where they explain the rules of the three parts of the event at length, with specific illustrative artwork. But then they just skip it all anyway. It makes no sense to include that scene, which doesn't really have any other importance. And that's the kind of thing Muv-Luv Alternative is. It feels like parody at points how far they go to really stretch the word count.

I don't mind reading some amount of schlock either, it just need to be entertaining and anything written in this way cannot be entertaining, at least for me (high IQ, impeccable). It's a shame because I think I'd like it if it they hired an editor to cut off about 3/4 of the word count (which you could probably do and have it not be obvious, lol)

Most writing is inane in any medium once you see enough of it, it'd probably help to use an autohotkey script to skip through it if the game doesn't support it internally.

 

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I am always fascinated by people fetizhizing books. As if 90% of books read weren't either a 3th rate fantasy or romance novel so cheap it would make a porn fanfiction writer blush.

First, books do tend to be overall better written than video games or movies. If you're a good writer, you're more than likely writing books, not writing for games or movies. Writers in Hollywood are paid nothing and get no recognition. Screenwriters make the least amount of money of anyone in the industry despite how much effort they put into their work and how critical their work is to the audience's enjoyment of the film. Anyone with actual writing talent goes to the book industry because that's where they make money and their name actually means something. It is very rare that a game developer gives a damn and sets aside enough money to hire an accomplished writer for their game (ie, Kingdoms of Amalur with R.A. Salvatore and Lost Odyssey with Kiyoshi Shigematsu). The vast majority of video games are written by people who have never written a book and don't know what they are doing.

Second, when it comes to visual novels, you're talking about a medium that emerged out of a cottage industry in Japan. They're games made by one or two nerds who have no money and burn their own CDs hoping to sell a few dozen or hundred copies to fellow nerds. They're remixing their favorite ideas they saw on TV and in manga. Up until a decade ago, it was assumed that a visual novel could not be sold without having porn in it. Even VNs that were trying to be "serious stories" felt the need to insert porn sections in them to actually sell well (Fate/Stay Night and Utawarerumono). The actual writing quality of the VN was secondary to other factors, such as appealing visuals, or simply having certain tropes or fitting into a certain genre that people gobble up.

Third, people notice more flaws in video game writing because video games go on for far longer than a book. You can read a 300 to 400 page long novel over an afternoon. After video games adopted the CD, the length of video games exploded as devs either didn't feel the need to edit their game down to the best stuff, or they felt pressured to pad out the game so they can claim that players are getting 60 to 100+ hours of "fun" for their purchase. Naturally a longer story means there will be more plotholes and irksome story choices that will accumulate.

 

[arekks]

Most writing is inane in any medium once you see enough of it, it'd probably help to use an autohotkey script to skip through it if the game doesn't support it internally.

Agreed. Also, most of life is inane too, so I recommend you keep a big bottle of JD on your person at all time. Any time there's some boring shit happening? Heh, chug that bad boy like there's no tomorrow. Important meeting? I recommend a 5:1 mix of whisky-to-cola. It's good shit and after a while you'll forget where you are.

Alternatively, instead of suggesting that we skip everything, how about criticising the things that exist? How about comparing the things that exist to other things that exist? Most visual novels don't require making a macro that lets you skip about 99% of itself, so, like, there's a comparison.

This isn't one or two scenes in a larger thing. This is the majority of the text in the thing. That's my issue.

 

[karoliner]

ok nvm.
https://www.gematsu.com/2022/10/cha...-via-steam-as-previously-planned-on-october-7

CHAOS;HEAD NOAH for PC to launch via Steam as previously planned on October 7​

'Valve has re-examined CHAOS;HEAD NOAH and decided to reverse course.'
Sal Romano
Oct 6 2022 / 9:00 PM EDT

The previously cancelled Steam release of CHAOS;HEAD NOAH for PC will launch as originally planned on September 7, publisher Spike Chunsoft announced.
Spike Chunsoft received the following statement from Steam operator Valve:

“Valve’s content review team, the group that made the original decision, has re-examined CHAOS;HEAD NOAH and decided to reverse course and allow the game to ship on Steam, as is. We’ve also examined the process that led to the previous decision about CHAOS;HEAD NOAH, and made some changes to avoid situations like this in the future.”

Spike Chunsoft also shared the following statement:

“We believe this decision is the result of the unwavering support from fans of the Science Adventure series as well as all of the players who are eagerly awaiting the release of this title. Your voices have been heard. We sincerely appreciate your commitment. We look forward to your continued support of Spike Chunsoft and the Science Adventure series.”

 

[InD_ImaginE]

ok nvm.
https://www.gematsu.com/2022/10/cha...-via-steam-as-previously-planned-on-october-7

CHAOS;HEAD NOAH for PC to launch via Steam as previously planned on October 7​

'Valve has re-examined CHAOS;HEAD NOAH and decided to reverse course.'
Sal Romano
Oct 6 2022 / 9:00 PM EDT

The previously cancelled Steam release of CHAOS;HEAD NOAH for PC will launch as originally planned on September 7, publisher Spike Chunsoft announced.
Spike Chunsoft received the following statement from Steam operator Valve:

“Valve’s content review team, the group that made the original decision, has re-examined CHAOS;HEAD NOAH and decided to reverse course and allow the game to ship on Steam, as is. We’ve also examined the process that led to the previous decision about CHAOS;HEAD NOAH, and made some changes to avoid situations like this in the future.”

Spike Chunsoft also shared the following statement:

“We believe this decision is the result of the unwavering support from fans of the Science Adventure series as well as all of the players who are eagerly awaiting the release of this title. Your voices have been heard. We sincerely appreciate your commitment. We look forward to your continued support of Spike Chunsoft and the Science Adventure series.”

This is rare. Usually when Steam reject a VN then it is gone from there forever.

 

[Duraframe300]

ok nvm.
https://www.gematsu.com/2022/10/cha...-via-steam-as-previously-planned-on-october-7

CHAOS;HEAD NOAH for PC to launch via Steam as previously planned on October 7​

'Valve has re-examined CHAOS;HEAD NOAH and decided to reverse course.'
Sal Romano
Oct 6 2022 / 9:00 PM EDT

The previously cancelled Steam release of CHAOS;HEAD NOAH for PC will launch as originally planned on September 7, publisher Spike Chunsoft announced.
Spike Chunsoft received the following statement from Steam operator Valve:

“Valve’s content review team, the group that made the original decision, has re-examined CHAOS;HEAD NOAH and decided to reverse course and allow the game to ship on Steam, as is. We’ve also examined the process that led to the previous decision about CHAOS;HEAD NOAH, and made some changes to avoid situations like this in the future.”

Spike Chunsoft also shared the following statement:

“We believe this decision is the result of the unwavering support from fans of the Science Adventure series as well as all of the players who are eagerly awaiting the release of this title. Your voices have been heard. We sincerely appreciate your commitment. We look forward to your continued support of Spike Chunsoft and the Science Adventure series.”

This is rare. Usually when Steam reject a VN then it is gone from there forever.

Wonder where Chaos Head got thrown out in the process.