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Game News Wasteland 2 Kickstarter Update #60: Migration to Unity 5, Character System Upgrade

Self-Ejected

Wilco

Self-Ejected
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
384
Location
The land of multi-headed phallus
A balance patch, addition of perks or engine change won't fix this game, sorry bros. It's fundamentally flawed. The game needs to be essentially redesigned - the character system, combat AI, loot system, dialogue system and repetitive music all need to be changed or redesigned.

Character System needs the most fixing:

-Attributes that are mostly useless and don't affect/barely affect skills is the the biggest flaw in the character system (and the game) at the moment - you can have a brawler with 10 INT and 2 STR that still does tons of damage. Needs to be changed so that attributes play a larger role in game play and also affect skill progression and effectiveness.

-Another big problem is useless attribute point gain e.g. you gain nothing by having attribute points in INT between 4-8 (in other words, there is no benefit to going from 4 INT to 5 INT during character creation or level up). Every attribute point needs to count for something and should improve your character in some way.

-Make all general skills and weapon skills useful in some way. Every weapon group should have it's advantages and disadvantages. Right now, you only really need assault rifles and brawling and you will beat the game. Likewise, certain skills are pretty useless and/or don't need to be leveled beyond a certain point e.g. mechanical repair, surgeon or field medic past a certain level (I think it was 8 points), hard ass not as useful as other ass skills.

Combat AI:

-AI enemies need to do more than run at you and attack you. Have them beg for mercy or run away when they can see that they are losing. Have them try to flank you or get to higher ground when they can. Currently, there is no challenge or strategy when fighting most AI opponents. For such a combat heavy RPG, you'd think the combat AI would be a priority, this needs to be changed.

Loot System:

-Fucking random loot drops bros! Where is the reward in finding a special item after unlocking a hard safe protected by a swarm of Raiders? I would even say lower the amount of crates/safes etc... In a post apocalyptic world, wouldn't it make sense that people would scavenge for anything they can? meaning most safes/crates would be empty or non existent.

Dialogue system:

-Currently just clicking buttons that leads to swarms of text. Moreover, you can't ask the same questions that you did before. Your rangers lack character for the most part. This may have been the standard in the old-skool pre 90s rpg days - but is kind of archaic in light of the dialogue system of the Fallout and IE games.

Music:


Mark Morgan is excellent and the tracks in the game are excellent, but there isn't enough variety to cover the scope of the game. The music plays a big part in making the areas in the game feel unique and adds to their atmosphere. It's very disappointing to reach a new area and have the same droning music play from the last area you were in. You don't get that feeling of being in a unique area e.g. Brotherhood of Steel theme suggested that they were technophiles, the Glow theme made the area feel like it was a creepy, dilapidated hole full of radiation.

Actually, after listing these faults, I can see that the game won't be fixed no matter how much Inxile patches it. At best, it will remain a good attempt at evoking some of the old school RPG nostalgia that we miss from the 80s and 90s. At worst, it would be considered an average to poor RPG.
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
I think there is much that W2 could have done better, or done differently. I still think it's an overall solid title.
For me the anouncement sounded like it hinted at an expansion. Though it might turn out to be a DC.
While I really apreciate post-release support, it also leads to me not playing the damn games.
I only played W2 to the mad monks where I realized how energy weapons interact with armor and got miffed for a bit. And stopped :M
Then I read somewhere that they wanted to patch and rebalance some things, so I thought "ok, wait for that". But when I checked again, there was a biggish patch in the pipeline, again. And now, again something big is anounced.
Similar stuff is happening with Div:OS which I also haven't finished for similar reasons. Thank you guys for all the post-release support, but please get the games "right" and feature complete the first time. As it stands, I'll be (probably) finishing PE before W2 and Div:OS. So from my POV those games might as well have been released months, if not years later. I don't mind waiting (looking at you VD and Aterdux), but this kind of teasing chafes on me. (I realize that the studios wouldn't generate the income to continue support without releasing the games. But I'm expressing my POV, not the studios'.)
 

LeStryfe79

President Spartacus
Joined
Nov 25, 2008
Messages
7,503
Location
Codex 2012 Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I knew InXile would go to these extreme lengths to polish Wasteland 2. This is precisely why I've been waiting so long to fire this baby up. Too bad hiver lacked the prescience to do the same.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
So is it safe to play the game now? Had it for awhile but everyone keeps telling me not to play it yet!
 

DosBuster

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
1,861
Location
God's Dumpster
Codex USB, 2014
seriously I feel like I've been stuck in an endless loop of: "I will start my second playthrough when x happens". I'm going to guess drm free disks are delayed until this patch is released?
 

naossano

Cipher
Joined
Aug 26, 2014
Messages
1,232
Location
Marseilles, France
Play it when you want.
If you enjoy the game now, you won't miss much without the patch. If you don't, patch won't magically make you love the game.
 

Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,761
Location
Copenhagen
So about a month ago I asked sea whether I should wait or just play the game now, the key being that if traits/perks were coming I'd wait. "nah mang u go ahead". OK so I went ahead and was like "man this game would really improve with perks..."

So...

6FvKIlg.jpg
 
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Athelas

Arcane
Joined
Jun 24, 2013
Messages
4,502
I'm not sure why so many believe perks can completely turn around the combat. Perks only tweak the already existing mechanics, they don't typically add new mechanics (which would be stuff like attacks of opportunity, smoke grenades, etc.).

Attributes that are mostly useless and don't affect/barely affect skills is the the biggest flaw in the character system (and the game) at the moment - you can have a brawler with 10 INT and 2 STR that still does tons of damage. Needs to be changed so that attributes play a larger role in game play and also affect skill progression and effectiveness.

-Another big problem is useless attribute point gain e.g. you gain nothing by having attribute points in INT between 4-8 (in other words, there is no benefit to going from 4 INT to 5 INT during character creation or level up). Every attribute point needs to count for something and should improve your character in some way.
Yes, there were some of my thoughts as well. I forgot at which points INT added skill points, but it was only at like 3 points, which means the 1-10 scale might as well be a 1-3 scale. This applies to a lot of other attributes as well. There is also the absurd overpoweredness of combat initiative/action points (someone did the math and apparently a high combat initiative char gets three times as many turns as a low initiative char, so is basically three times as powerful).
 

Darkzone

Arcane
Joined
Sep 4, 2013
Messages
2,323
I'm not sure why so many believe perks can completely turn around the combat. Perks only tweak the already existing mechanics, they don't typically add new mechanics (which would be stuff like attacks of opportunity, smoke grenades, etc.).
Also attacks of opportunity and smoke grenades do not change the nature of the combat. Truth to be told inXile fucked up the combat in W2.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
36,693
I'm going to guess drm free disks are delayed until this patch is released?
They fucking better.

So a month ago I asked sea whether I should wait or just play the game now, the key being that if traits/perks were coming I'd wait. "nah mang u go ahead". OK so I went ahead and was like "man this game would really improve with perks..."

So...

It should be clear by now that inXile makes a lot of last-minute change-of-plans. Ineptly managed company one might say ("one" being "Roguey").
 

Zeronet

Learned
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
250
I too ruined my experience of Wasteland 2 by playing it before it was finished. I hate to be harsh, the game has good bits, but it's not just a matter of polish, LA has unfinished areas, unrealized concepts half implemented which i found disappointing. I have a vague hope that maybe they'll polish up some of the content that's a bit lacking.
 
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Grunker

RPG Codex Ghost
Patron
Joined
Oct 19, 2009
Messages
27,761
Location
Copenhagen
It should be clear by now that inXile makes a lot of last-minute change-of-plans. Ineptly managed company one might say ("one" being "Roguey").

Sorry, I got distracted by the fact that people in this day and age exist who complaint about having to download a patch.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,594
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
So a month ago I asked sea whether I should wait or just play the game now, the key being that if traits/perks were coming I'd wait. "nah mang u go ahead". OK so I went ahead and was like "man this game would really improve with perks..."

So...

It should be clear by now that inXile makes a lot of last-minute change-of-plans. Ineptly managed company one might say ("one" being "Roguey").

Keep in mind that the update is phrased as a tease with regard to perks on purpose. They're not committed to anything yet. Yes, I asked.

So it's less a matter of inXile making last-minute change-of-plans and more a matter of them being very conservative about what they promise. All in accordance with Infinitron's Theory of inXile. :obviously:
 

DosBuster

Arcane
Patron
The Real Fanboy
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
1,861
Location
God's Dumpster
Codex USB, 2014
Well, considering how sea is (possibly, based off own speculation) in charge of most of the design, aimed shots must be in though Fargo himself confirmed it way back.
 

GloomFrost

Arcane
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
1,100
Location
Northern wastes
Well it is good news I guess but..... whatever they are planning to do the d better do it fast coz I dont think many people will even look at W2 after the Underrail, POE and AOD come out (which is pretty soon btw)
 

Turok

Erudite
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
1,056
Location
Venezuela
It's very clear that they are going to update the engine to the version 5 because they are going to use it on bards tale 4.
 
Joined
Dec 12, 2013
Messages
4,334
So about a month ago I asked sea whether I should wait or just play the game now, the key being that if traits/perks were coming I'd wait. "nah mang u go ahead". OK so I went ahead and was like "man this game would really improve with perks..."

So...

6FvKIlg.jpg

You mean sea was trained in various tricks to resist smart interrogations techniques? We will devise new techniques then!
 

l3loodAngel

Proud INTJ
Patron
Edgy
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,452
Reposting my thoughts from the main thread:

I'm impressed to see this much effort put into post-release support. Bodes well for the future of RPGs imo.

I also like InXile willing to be a bit chancy porting to Unity 5.

Good effort, but I would rather see an expansion or something similar.
 

Achilles

Arcane
Joined
Sep 5, 2009
Messages
3,425
Nice! I hope the engine upgrade can improve the look of the game.
 
Joined
Dec 9, 2014
Messages
17
This game is flawed in so many aspects. If it wasn't the sole representative of the genre at the moment, I would have avoided it. Most enjoyment was due the nostalgia of the better games of the past.

They should go straight away to Wasteland 3 and forget everything they've done so far. Design one area and make combat and skills and xp progression work. If you can't do that, you can't save the game by spamming the player with millions of lines for pointless dialogue. "I know we're in a bit of hurry here, but hey, why don't we sit down and discuss about what YOU think about Kathy Lawson?"
 

UnknownBro

Savant
Joined
Mar 23, 2012
Messages
373
For me it's not even a mediocre game, it's just plain horrible and I hate it, everything about it looks cheap and shallow.

I see this this update for what it is, the promise of fixing a broken game.

Good luck Inxile, I sincerely hope Torrent don't turn to be another clusterfuck like WL2.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Patron
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,594
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
everything about it looks cheap and shallow.

It's interesting how with the people who REALLY didn't like Wasteland 2, the graphics are often the decisive factor. It's like, "Randomized loot, boring combat and keywords instead of a dialogue tree...AND the graphics are bad? This cannot stand."
 

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