Dwarvophile
Liturgist
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2015
- Messages
- 1,600
Got bored of it p fast. Combat is too hectic, it's a mess and not really fun. Doesn't help with the otherall repetitiveness of the game.
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Weird West: Definitive Edition - top-down immersive sim action-RPG from Arkane founder Raf Colantonio
- Thread starter conan_edw
- Start date
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
Looks like it might sink down to mixed reviews on Steam if the downward trend continues. At 74% ATM.
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
I can't imagine Valve is very happy about this.
Steam pass?
rusty_shackleford
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2018
- Messages
- 50,754
Doubt it. Steam already takes a cut of EA's pass for people who subscribe on Steam though.
Something they might do is something like restrict advertising space for games that are available via external subscription services. Why give advertising space to a game people will see then go play on an external platform when they could give that space to a game exclusively on Steam?
That's just spiteful though. Steam would gain nothing by it but bad relations with publishers and devs.
That can't be how they fight back against this.
sosmoflux
Educated
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2022
- Messages
- 351
Finally finished this.
Can only imagine Raph was mostly disconnected from the development of the game outside of high level ideation.
Because I can't imagine there were actual humans that played through this thing and said "Yes Weird West is playable, this is fine, this will be received well".
The combat is ridiculous and absolutely has it's wires crossed. It's designed like it was made for a turned based, almost Final Fantasy 7 Remake style combat system.
But it all actually plays out in real time with clunky controls (that eventually you get used to but are still never in your favor).
AI and general game movement is so fast it's silly. Like you're playing a top down shootemup except everything's hitscan and there's no cover system, resulting in constant unmitigated damage and quick reloads when you die to some stupid shit.
They clearly didn't have a single person on the team who actually plays action games. Which I guess is fairly typical for 'immersive sim' tier game design.
Speaking of, the 'immersive sim' stuff actually just doesn't impact the game at all.
There's a few systems going on in the overworld that mean ziltch to your actual experience. The first time in the tutorial you kick an acid barrel will be the last time you meaningfully interact with any physics.
And there's obviously some effort made to allow you to walk into towns in different directions, and initiate combat with NPCs in an unscripted manner.
But Dark Messiah or Arx Fatalis this isn't.
I don't know what it is with these old guard game designers with these 'return to form' games.
It's like they think that just the implementation of a bunch of goofy mechanics like upturned barrels making a water pool, or entities being near a fire catching aflame, is good enough.
But they never actually do anything with it. Sure, you can spend the time and effort setting up to electrify water and deal 5% damage to a bunch of guys that will turn around and shoot you in the head. Or you could just, shoot them.
We should've learned these lessons from games like Breath of the Wild, Bioshock 2, and Divinity Original Sin.
Deathloop had the exact same problem. You can't care about these systems when 99.9% of the time you're simply walking around and shooting because it's so easy.
And it's not like they're completely blind to this stuff. In my playthrough there was an instance that required something other than shooting, or pressing A to interact.
It was secret area where a couple of electrical poles needed electricity to activate (throw a lightning grenade at them). I guess that's immersive.
In terms of progression and itemization it's just bonkers. By the time you get to character 3 I guarantee you won't use the upgrade points beyond just seeing what each individual character's unique skills do.
Not only is it tiresome to re-unlock the same 'general' abilities over and over. But beyond one or two of them they're all genuinely useless.
In fact, once you hit the midgame and have realized the dominant strategy is just run around with guns doing the gundodge move, the entire progression and item loop is completely sidelined. I was hoarding things like dynamite, bandages, and all the different throwables in the off chance that something would require their use. There never is. (Maybe during some cave explorations you'll use dynamite to blow up some rocks every now and then).
Also, the actual finding and picking up of items is completely indefensible. All the notes and books and even quest items are difficult to spot from this topdown perspective. This only adds to the frustration and lack of intentionality.
And finally, the story, as mildly sticky as it is, is not interesting. The ending isn't worth the squeeze, and it's rubbed in even more with the finale dialogue which does and means nothing. Expositioning an explanation that reveals nothing of great interest.
So much potential with the core idea but totally fumbled.
Credit where it's due though, if they ever re-design the game, I'd come back for a second runthrough, to see how a couple of things go differently.
Speaking of due credit. As badly made as this game is, and how much they essentially lied throughout the gamedev playthroughs and marketing, I'm happy Raph and co got to makeand release a scuffed and non-standard videogame.
I appreciate all the systems (friend for life, wanteds, multiple characters, ghost towns, etc) but can't help but feel they got like half way through the initial design docs and wrapped things up just to ship it.
Can only imagine Raph was mostly disconnected from the development of the game outside of high level ideation.
Because I can't imagine there were actual humans that played through this thing and said "Yes Weird West is playable, this is fine, this will be received well".
The combat is ridiculous and absolutely has it's wires crossed. It's designed like it was made for a turned based, almost Final Fantasy 7 Remake style combat system.
But it all actually plays out in real time with clunky controls (that eventually you get used to but are still never in your favor).
AI and general game movement is so fast it's silly. Like you're playing a top down shootemup except everything's hitscan and there's no cover system, resulting in constant unmitigated damage and quick reloads when you die to some stupid shit.
They clearly didn't have a single person on the team who actually plays action games. Which I guess is fairly typical for 'immersive sim' tier game design.
Speaking of, the 'immersive sim' stuff actually just doesn't impact the game at all.
There's a few systems going on in the overworld that mean ziltch to your actual experience. The first time in the tutorial you kick an acid barrel will be the last time you meaningfully interact with any physics.
And there's obviously some effort made to allow you to walk into towns in different directions, and initiate combat with NPCs in an unscripted manner.
But Dark Messiah or Arx Fatalis this isn't.
I don't know what it is with these old guard game designers with these 'return to form' games.
It's like they think that just the implementation of a bunch of goofy mechanics like upturned barrels making a water pool, or entities being near a fire catching aflame, is good enough.
But they never actually do anything with it. Sure, you can spend the time and effort setting up to electrify water and deal 5% damage to a bunch of guys that will turn around and shoot you in the head. Or you could just, shoot them.
We should've learned these lessons from games like Breath of the Wild, Bioshock 2, and Divinity Original Sin.
Deathloop had the exact same problem. You can't care about these systems when 99.9% of the time you're simply walking around and shooting because it's so easy.
And it's not like they're completely blind to this stuff. In my playthrough there was an instance that required something other than shooting, or pressing A to interact.
It was secret area where a couple of electrical poles needed electricity to activate (throw a lightning grenade at them). I guess that's immersive.
In terms of progression and itemization it's just bonkers. By the time you get to character 3 I guarantee you won't use the upgrade points beyond just seeing what each individual character's unique skills do.
Not only is it tiresome to re-unlock the same 'general' abilities over and over. But beyond one or two of them they're all genuinely useless.
In fact, once you hit the midgame and have realized the dominant strategy is just run around with guns doing the gundodge move, the entire progression and item loop is completely sidelined. I was hoarding things like dynamite, bandages, and all the different throwables in the off chance that something would require their use. There never is. (Maybe during some cave explorations you'll use dynamite to blow up some rocks every now and then).
Also, the actual finding and picking up of items is completely indefensible. All the notes and books and even quest items are difficult to spot from this topdown perspective. This only adds to the frustration and lack of intentionality.
And finally, the story, as mildly sticky as it is, is not interesting. The ending isn't worth the squeeze, and it's rubbed in even more with the finale dialogue which does and means nothing. Expositioning an explanation that reveals nothing of great interest.
So much potential with the core idea but totally fumbled.
Credit where it's due though, if they ever re-design the game, I'd come back for a second runthrough, to see how a couple of things go differently.
Speaking of due credit. As badly made as this game is, and how much they essentially lied throughout the gamedev playthroughs and marketing, I'm happy Raph and co got to makeand release a scuffed and non-standard videogame.
I appreciate all the systems (friend for life, wanteds, multiple characters, ghost towns, etc) but can't help but feel they got like half way through the initial design docs and wrapped things up just to ship it.
1451
Seeker
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2011
- Messages
- 1,382
I'm on the last character now.
Pleasantly surprised that it's an oneirist. You can even use the gates to travel now.
But the game has some weird bugs. Pigman Joe didn't disappear as I initially thought, he was in an other city, chilling.
Sometimes I deposit precious metals to safe boxes, when I want to withdraw them it counts as a theft.
But only in some settlements.
I don't understand this arcane inner reasoning of the game.
Werewolf and native had boring campaigns.
But the game has some weird bugs. Pigman Joe didn't disappear as I initially thought, he was in an other city, chilling.
Sometimes I deposit precious metals to safe boxes, when I want to withdraw them it counts as a theft.
But only in some settlements.
I don't understand this arcane inner reasoning of the game.
Werewolf and native had boring campaigns.
Combat is a headache. Whenever I win it always feels unsatisfying, like I fluked my way to victory. Main quest goes from being ok to drab pretty fast, very repetitive gameplay wise. Stealth is not fleshed out enough to be viable, brute force is always the better option. Side quests are pretty much RNG rinse and repeat, nothing interesting. Only side quest I saw that was hand-crafted, was some homo asking me to deliver a letter to his bum-buddy....yep...lol
Just got to Pigman (second character of five) and bored out of my mind. 5 hours of play and noticing a lot of maps, random encounters being recycled - especially these "Onerist temples", been through four and I already want to gouge my eyes out. Asset re-use amplified with the bounty missions, because you'll soon find yourself ending up at previously cleared encampments again and again. This was the nail in the coffin for me.
If you're craving an Isometric/Immersive Sim/CRPG hybrid, I'd say go play Seven instead. For all Seven's flaws, it at least had a lot of variation in the enviroments, missions and playing with stealth was actually fun (they had the disguise system which was quite cool)
I like the ideas here in Weird West, but none of it has been fleshed out, overall it feels very shallow.
Just got to Pigman (second character of five) and bored out of my mind. 5 hours of play and noticing a lot of maps, random encounters being recycled - especially these "Onerist temples", been through four and I already want to gouge my eyes out. Asset re-use amplified with the bounty missions, because you'll soon find yourself ending up at previously cleared encampments again and again. This was the nail in the coffin for me.
If you're craving an Isometric/Immersive Sim/CRPG hybrid, I'd say go play Seven instead. For all Seven's flaws, it at least had a lot of variation in the enviroments, missions and playing with stealth was actually fun (they had the disguise system which was quite cool)
I like the ideas here in Weird West, but none of it has been fleshed out, overall it feels very shallow.
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1451
Seeker
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2011
- Messages
- 1,382
Finally finished the game and I don't understand why to some players combat feels bad.
I enjoyed it but it becomes too easy, that's for sure.
Keep in mind that this is an action rpg, like Diablo. Don't let the controls deceive you.
Side content does become repetitive but I think it only exists to finance your adventures in the main quest.
I skipped it entirely from the moment I gathered enough ore to sell and get my horse, plus rifle bullets.
Still I would recommend this, it's one of the few games not only worth playing but finishing.
I enjoyed it but it becomes too easy, that's for sure.
Keep in mind that this is an action rpg, like Diablo. Don't let the controls deceive you.
Side content does become repetitive but I think it only exists to finance your adventures in the main quest.
I skipped it entirely from the moment I gathered enough ore to sell and get my horse, plus rifle bullets.
I guess I got the "good" ending. The immortals finally die and the world stays as it was.
But it's very anticlimactic, no big fight, no epic scenes.
But it's very anticlimactic, no big fight, no epic scenes.
onemananadhisdroid
Augur
sosmoflux
Educated
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2022
- Messages
- 351
I'm not, nor anyone I've seen, is saying that the game is too hard. If anything, it's too easy. It's not about getting good.
Get good implies there are systems & situations to learn and master and perfect.
Well designed combat: "Ah I see why I died, I could've done this instead of that, I could've engaged with the systems better"
Poorly designed combat: "Ah, I died because those two enemies instantly killed me with hitscan rifles after I blew up a barrel next to them... guess I'll... not engage in any of the systems the game has created..."
In WW, due to the sporadic nature of the AI, the unavoidable hitscan damage, the tracking melee, and the chaos of the physics & elemental systems - it turned the combat engagements from something that should've been intentional and smart and interesting and fairly challenging, into an unmitigated, uncontrollable mess. To the point where there's a tutorial message straight up telling you that the game is absolutely wild so you'll need to apply a liberal use of the Quick Load button to have a good time.
Anyone can abuse quick load and take peekaboo pot shots / stealth kills until everyone's dead, but doing so fails to engage with the promise of all the game's systems.
I think the game would be far stronger if it paid off the systemic interactions better, and made them feel more intentional, such as;
- Slowing down enemy AI movement
- Telegraphing when enemies are going to attack / shoot more intentionally
- Stunning enemies more obviously and for longer when hit by things like Electricity, Explosives, Flashes, etc (and properly telegraph when those states are fading off)
- Allow the player to combat pause and use abilities, RTWP style
- Stagger enemies when they're shot (only close range shotgun hits do this I think?)
(Funnily enough... all things Dark Messiah & Prey did pretty well...)
Once done, you could tune down the overpowered aspects of the game like the shootdodge, rifle snipe, etc etc. Then you could tune up the 'generic' abilities.
Renevent
Cipher
- Joined
- Feb 22, 2013
- Messages
- 925
I never finished it (got to the start of the pigman story). I don't know why developers do this but in games where you are building characters, exploring, investing, upgrading, saving, etc switching out the PC and having the player do all the same shit again (and in WW case, again and again) is just shit game design. Turns the game into a more of a story based adventure game instead of a cool immersive sim/rpg where you are building up your character and getting really invested. This game would be 1000X better if we could have just created our own character and stuck with it the entire experience and by expanding the skill system into something more comprehensive.
There are glimpses of fun game play but it's made obsolete but their idiotic design decisions. I also agree with a lot of what sosmoflux says. The combat feels like it's somewhere between a top down shooter and a tactics/rpg, but would have been far far better if they committed to one style or the other more...as it is it's just not that successful nor fun. And before any retard says "git gud" I didn't find the game hard. At all. In fact I never even upgraded any of my weapons or really used any skills. I didn't have to quick save/load either. It just not required.
Really sucks too was really looking forward to the game. Arx Fatalis is one of my favorite games of all time and I really loved Prey too. Kinda was hoping this would be a return to form but it's just not that good and plagued by stupid design. And that's before even considering the woke shit the game is stuffed with.
4/10
There are glimpses of fun game play but it's made obsolete but their idiotic design decisions. I also agree with a lot of what sosmoflux says. The combat feels like it's somewhere between a top down shooter and a tactics/rpg, but would have been far far better if they committed to one style or the other more...as it is it's just not that successful nor fun. And before any retard says "git gud" I didn't find the game hard. At all. In fact I never even upgraded any of my weapons or really used any skills. I didn't have to quick save/load either. It just not required.
Really sucks too was really looking forward to the game. Arx Fatalis is one of my favorite games of all time and I really loved Prey too. Kinda was hoping this would be a return to form but it's just not that good and plagued by stupid design. And that's before even considering the woke shit the game is stuffed with.
4/10
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orcinator
Liturgist
Sounds like it has all the problems of the previous arkane games but made even worse.
At least dishonored had those epic kill moves for when you ignore all your abilities in favor of "use sword/gun on man".
Also is that an 8 minute video about how the devs invented auto-aim?
At least dishonored had those epic kill moves for when you ignore all your abilities in favor of "use sword/gun on man".
Also is that an 8 minute video about how the devs invented auto-aim?
Played it and shelved it, it's really rare for me the drop a game without finishing but this one becomes boring and shallow really quick.
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sosmoflux
Educated
- Joined
- Apr 16, 2022
- Messages
- 351
[1.02 update sneak peek]
Thanks for beta testing losers.
Why didn't they just release this as Early Access if they're adding/changing so much right away?
Thanks for beta testing losers.
Why didn't they just release this as Early Access if they're adding/changing so much right away?
Latelistener
Arcane
- Joined
- May 25, 2016
- Messages
- 2,624
The moral of the story is, if Raf really played Seven he should've probably played Underrail instead.
onemananadhisdroid
Augur
Bottom line is that I'm now ~40 hours in and have just stayed up another night because of a game. That game is Weird West. It's still quite fun. (And I dig how on maps with lots of grass things can escalate pretty quickly if there's "firepower" and wind involved). :D
Have to finally sleep another 8 hours now though to regain AP.
Have to finally sleep another 8 hours now though to regain AP.
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- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 99,621
Big update here:
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1097350/view/3202632977037647195
https://store.steampowered.com/news/app/1097350/view/3202632977037647195
Weird West Update 1.02 is Live
Giddy up for the Snake-In-My-Boot update (Patch 1.02)--now live on Steam!
This update, one of many to come, addresses a host of community feedback, fixes plenty of bugs, and introduces new features ranging from Lethal Stealth Take Down with Melee Weapons to Non-Lethal Blunt Weapons and a revamp of the Projectiles Throw system. We also improved the Posse Inventory UI and added a brand new Weapon-Scrapping Mode to make inventory management a lot easier! Finally, this update also features some new content, with a couple of brand-new travel encounters, and it also adds some new setups and new layouts to secondary locations, as part of a long-term continued effort to add variety to those secondary locations!
More details below:
And if you are keen on joining the conversation for some fun chats, check out the Official Weird West Suggestion Board or join the Weird West Community Discord!
The Dev Team is now hard at work on 1.03, scheduled for mid-June, which will continue our commitment to improving the game and responding to community feedback--more details on that soon! In the meantime.. here is this patch trailer
KeighnMcDeath
RPG Codex Boomer
- Joined
- Nov 23, 2016
- Messages
- 15,420
I'll just keep waiting for patches and add-ons then discount, but I nearly trigger-finger bought this ASAP. Something stopped me....
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