Weird West: Definitive Edition - top-down immersive sim action-RPG from Arkane founder Raf Colantonio

[kangaxx]

I want to say "I search the desk, do I find anything germane to the case?" and I want the same elegance of presentation in video games. Maybe one or two flavor items are fine but if trash digging is a primary expectation of RPGs, then RPGs fucking suck.

It isn't irrelevant though... you can sell it and make money to upgrade weapons, but it's up to you whether you do that. It's easy, but the price is that you can't carry around loads of junk.
You can not bother with the clutter, buy a rope, wait until dark and rob the bank followed by the gun shop. Up to you.

I'm not picking on you kangaxx, and there's no good reason to reopen this sidebar, but I was rereading this outside of the context of our debate and the image struck me as hilarious. There was straight-faced advocacy for a game world in which it makes sense to gather used ball point pens, sell them by the hundreds to ready buyers on the street, take that money to your local gun store, and buy "upgrades" ... I guess because having this option is "realistic" in imsim terms. Just think about each step of that process for a second and I hope you will laugh along with me.

It's like I said, a better option is to loot weapons from dead enemies or rob shops/hideouts. If you really want to scavenge rubbish and sell it the process is painful and less exciting. As with every single video game in history without exception, there is some "game-ness" about the way it's represented in game.

 

[Ivan]

my hopes for this game vs my experience:


So, not having watched any of the gameplay footage, I went into this with high expectations. I was expecting a crossbreed of classic Fallout with the platforming/action-RPG combat like we saw in Seven: Days Long Gone. I'm sorely disappointed to say that this is nothing like the former, and worse, in the gameplay department than the latter.

Weird West should not have had such a huge world map. The elements I do like quite a lot about the game is the in-game reactivity seen through newspapers, the ways maps change over time, the ability to interact with NPCs whose bodies you've inhabited before. What I'm sorely disappointed with is the combat, the stealth, and the odd progression system.

The combat feels way too fast paced, it has a manic feeling where I just found it best to silently ko enemies. The animation can get especially janky here or look hilarious bady. Sometimes it looks like you're tapping on folks' heads and they collapse.

Strengths
-I enjoy seeing the newspapers reflect choices/actions you've taken in the game world
-I like interacting with NPCs whose bodies you've inhabited previously, really cool that they retain their inventories as you left them
-platforming and mounting feels nice, often supported by the level design whereby you can sneak into locations via balconies, descend down chimneys, or find a window
-I've stuck with the game b/c of the primary vignettes, strong narration, and I', curious to see how it resolves itself. It's got a nice sense of style, again, reminding me of Seven (which I quite enjoyed and think of as a diamond in the rough)

Weakness
-having to acquire a mount each time sucks, why couldn't you just acquire one when teaming up with an NPC who bought one?
-combat is way too fast paced, feels manic, I opted to take out most NPCs via stealth KOs (which showcase the janky ass animations, a mix of hilarious and ugly)
-95% of the quests that are not tethered to the primary vignettes are boring fetch quests with boring rewards
-the skill system is an awful example of the +5% dmg boost variety
-combat was so bad I almost never spent skill points on weapons
-sucks that you can only pickpocket from NPCs who are asleep (I forget which other state applies), a shame b/c I would have liked to have seen the quest design take into account framing people, or planting explosives in enemies' pockets
-world traversal sucks b/c it just wastes time, results in boring overworld encounters that just drain resources. soon you learn that there are a small number of location templates such that all the mines, haciendas, and towns have the same layout and feel. I'm surprised more effort didn't go into giving each location its own identity and layout (exacerbated by having such a large world map). I often refused to enter NEW locations b/c I knew the content that wasn't tethered to the main quest would be a shit fedex quest
-stealthing is a mixed bag b/c NPCs CAN turn around on a dime and spot you

 

[Latelistener]

Very consistent peak player activity over the launch weekend, but low launch day turnout. Might signal a lack of hype(?). Also, Steam reviews have dipped below 80%, converting to Mostly Positive.

Overall, not bad for an AA game. Performed better than fellow Devolver title Shadow Warrior 3. I would be busting a nut if my games had these player numbers, but I have no idea if this is a win/loss for them overall.

Online itself is not really important for an SP game, but the reviews aren't exactly bustling with positivity and there aren't that many. All in all, given the time, the money and the possibilities Raph had his first game after Arkane could've been and perform much better.

Reminds me a bit of Death Trash. Similar combat system and world map travel, except DT is more on the RPG side rather than IS. But check how that one performs in the reviews. And it had zero marketing.

 

[Child of Malkav]

 

[kangaxx]

I agree that having to get a horse each time is irritating, even if you grab previous characters as companions.

 

[Child of Malkav]

I agree that having to get a horse each time is irritating, even if you grab previous characters as companions.

As a Pigman and next characters I was able to recruit the bounty hunter and get Calamity (her horse, if it didn't die or bug out previously) to use normally so no, you can get the horse if it's still alive. The horse was in the barn so look there next time. This was the case in the beta version.

 

[Hines]

Very consistent peak player activity over the launch weekend, but low launch day turnout. Might signal a lack of hype(?). Also, Steam reviews have dipped below 80%, converting to Mostly Positive.

Overall, not bad for an AA game. Performed better than fellow Devolver title Shadow Warrior 3. I would be busting a nut if my games had these player numbers, but I have no idea if this is a win/loss for them overall.

Online itself is not really important for an SP game, but the reviews aren't exactly bustling with positivity and there aren't that many. All in all, given the time, the money and the possibilities Raph had his first game after Arkane could've been and perform much better.

Reminds me a bit of Death Trash. Similar combat system and world map travel, except DT is more on the RPG side rather than IS. But check how that one performs in the reviews. And it had zero marketing.

I mean, if we're honest, only Dishonored was a breakout for Raph. The rest of his games have been poorly selling cult hits that received lukewarm or mixed reviews at launch. WW seems in keeping with that tradition.

 

[Lemming42]

Not really enjoying this so far. Endless cycle of going up behind dimwits and choking them out. Other enemies rush over and suffer the same fate. Enemies never wake up. Tried combat a couple times but it sucks so there's no motivation not to play stealth/nonlethal. Doesn't seem like there's that many "emergent" ways to take enemies out, short of kicking barrels of acid at them and then running away giggling.

Bonus points for enemies not detecting you even when physically bumping into companions who are blocking doors. I understand and agree with the decision not to make the companions detectable by enemies because it'd make stealth a nigthmare, but still, fuck's sake.

One cool moment so far at least, when the mayor tries to blackmail you into working for him to get info. Walked out of the room, tried to go upstairs and got turned away by the guard. Climbed up the side of the building and slipped behind the guard to reach a bedroom containing a combination to a safe. Sneaked into the main room between guard patrols, took the info from the safe, continued the main quest. Pretty cool but it was one moment amid the sea of putting people in chokeholds.

 

[Child of Malkav]

Enemies never wake up.

They do, but it takes quite some time.

 

[Zombra]

Enemies never wake up.

They do, but it takes quite some time.

This is nice to see. I get so sick of stealth games where a knocked out enemy wakes up screaming 30 seconds later, and the national guard swarms the compound at 31 seconds.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Enemies never wake up.

They do, but it takes quite some time.

This is nice to see. I get so sick of stealth games where a knocked out enemy wakes up screaming 30 seconds later, and the national guard swarms the compound at 31 seconds.

It’s pretty pointless here though, because you can just carry their unconscious body to some bushes and then knife them to death without them waking up.

 

[Zombra]

[Knocking out enemies is] pretty pointless here though, because you can just carry their unconscious body to some bushes and then knife them to death without them waking up.

So you can choose to easily kill an unconscious enemy, or not? Not seeing the problem.

 

[The Regulator Guy]

Finished the game at 34.6 hours (including probably an hour or two in the pause menu). The overarching plan and motivation turned out to be pretty interesting.

One very minor quibble about the last minutes of the game. Spoilers ahead, of course.

Spoiler

In the temple with the five statues, the place to which you have to send all the others the Passenger had possessed, I told Essex Mast to screw off and he gave me some sass. I'd been looking for an excuse to kill him for most of the game, so I finally did.

In the final scene, when the Authority asked me why I killed him, I didn't have an option to state the real reason I did it -- so I answered that he seemed like a threat, which was a factor, but not the main reason.

My real reason was the same reason for which I think the Engineer killed Weyland in Prometheus: he had an unhealthy obsession with immortality. Ironically, this (and the unfortunate sequel of actually getting immortality) was the whole basis of the Passenger's plan to start with, but it wasn't a choosable answer.

As I said, though, a very minor quibble, and I found the ending surprisingly satisfying.

 

[ColCol]

Not really enjoying this so far. Endless cycle of going up behind dimwits and choking them out. Other enemies rush over and suffer the same fate. Enemies never wake up. Tried combat a couple times but it sucks so there's no motivation not to play stealth/nonlethal. Doesn't seem like there's that many "emergent" ways to take enemies out, short of kicking barrels of acid at them and then running away giggling.

Bonus points for enemies not detecting you even when physically bumping into companions who are blocking doors. I understand and agree with the decision not to make the companions detectable by enemies because it'd make stealth a nigthmare, but still, fuck's sake.

One cool moment so far at least, when the mayor tries to blackmail you into working for him to get info. Walked out of the room, tried to go upstairs and got turned away by the guard. Climbed up the side of the building and slipped behind the guard to reach a bedroom containing a combination to a safe. Sneaked into the main room between guard patrols, took the info from the safe, continued the main quest. Pretty cool but it was one moment amid the sea of putting people in chokeholds.

This, they'll throw multi-choice missions like this once in a blue moon but it is not really consistent enough.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

[Knocking out enemies is] pretty pointless here though, because you can just carry their unconscious body to some bushes and then knife them to death without them waking up.

So you can choose to easily kill an unconscious enemy, or not? Not seeing the problem.

Not a problem, per se, but as far as I know there’s no reason not to do it beyond RPing.

 

[Ivan]

bruh: the NPC helping mechanic is retarded. Like couldn't they have at least limited the NPCs who trigger to help be related to the body you're inhabiting

endgame
"you sold the sherrif's badge instead of giving it to his wife"
reality. I gave it to her, she got killed when she magically appears to help you in combat, got killed, then I pilfered it and sold it.

 

[Ivan]

One cool moment so far at least, when the mayor tries to blackmail you into working for him to get info. Walked out of the room, tried to go upstairs and got turned away by the guard. Climbed up the side of the building and slipped behind the guard to reach a bedroom containing a combination to a safe. Sneaked into the main room between guard patrols, took the info from the safe, continued the main quest. Pretty cool but it was one moment amid the sea of putting people in chokeholds.

this. the cool shit is spread WAY TOO THINLY across the huge open world. I totally wish for a SMALLER world map, with a greater focus on reactivity/reputation system

I progressed that quest differently. found the basement where he was keeping a hostage, confronted him about it, bypassing his demand.

 

[kangaxx]

One cool moment so far at least, when the mayor tries to blackmail you into working for him to get info. Walked out of the room, tried to go upstairs and got turned away by the guard. Climbed up the side of the building and slipped behind the guard to reach a bedroom containing a combination to a safe. Sneaked into the main room between guard patrols, took the info from the safe, continued the main quest. Pretty cool but it was one moment amid the sea of putting people in chokeholds.

I solved this by

Spoiler

bypassing Weeks altogether - rescued a man he had imprisoned in a hidey hole in his compound as a rape toy. That person had the info I wanted.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

This, they'll throw multi-choice missions like this once in a blue moon but it is not really consistent enough.

Technically there should always be another option for progressing main quests like this, as you can kill all the NPCs (excluding children), including NPCs meant to give you information on how to progress. Some/most(?) of the time they may simply drop an item carrying the required info though (like in the Stillwater interrogation at the sheriff's in Grackle)*. However, the Weeks quest wasn't the only instance where I could alternatively find required info to progress a quest in the relevant NPC's location. (Personally I still accepted his request -- what followed was the first time in the game I entered and left a location I was asked to infiltrate unspotted, the one true Thief style). :D

As an aside, I spoilered myself a twist of the bounty hunters journey early on by doing experiments with killing NPCs. Spoiler of something that is only revealed comparably at the end of her main quest.

Spoiler

I attacked and eventually killed sheriff Albright early on. In the process of attacking her, she turned into a sirene and revealed her nature, which by not doing this, is only revealed much later on.

Kind of reminded me a bit of when playing Prey, I used the awesome gloo canon to build a staircase to an escape pod that is otherwise not reachable (at least at this point, I don't remember exactly.) When activating it, I sort of triggered an early alternative "ending" that spoiled/hinted at what the game's story is really about.




edit

* Refered to as "failsafes" in this piece. How Weird West's developers put the "immersive" in "immersive sim" (gamedeveloper.com)

 

[Gradenmayer]

Before finishing Werewolves' story, make sure to dismiss followers. One of them disappears permanently if you don't. Recreatable bug.

 

[Nano]

I get so sick of stealth games where a knocked out enemy wakes up screaming 30 seconds later

Isn't that actually realistic? I've heard that if you "knock people out" IRL they either get up quickly or you actually killed them. Only reliable way to make people stay unconscious is drugging them.

 

[Angelo85]

How about tying them up when unconscious? "Realism" problem solved and more immersive. There's also already a rope utility item in the game. Enforces a minor moral dilemma too, either you do the easy "evil" way by murdering your victims without cost to you, or you go with the "good" way with a personal cost attached in the form of needing to purchasing/looting rope and tying them up with it.

 

[Acrux]

Commandos-style games did that really well. I mostly played Robin Hood, so I'm not sure how other games handled it, but you could knock out an opponent briefly or tie them up permanently. If they woke up or were untied by enemies they would call for a guard captain and search for you pretty extensively. If they couldn't find you after a while they'd go back to patrolling.

 

[Roguey]

Isn't that actually realistic? I've heard that if you "knock people out" IRL they either get up quickly or you actually killed them. Only reliable way to make people stay unconscious is drugging them.

fun>realism

 

[1451]

Started playing this, from the comments here I was expecting something bad but it's actually good, I was totally immersed.
Played only the first mission of rescuing the abducted men.
Have some questions, if I hire a bounty hunter and he accidentally dies during my adventures, can I loot the body and get back my money?
I kept stealing horses and ruining my reputation but then I killed some outlaws and people like me again.
I even rescued a horse from the outlaw camp but it was ungrateful and escaped instead of becoming my steed.
Controls need some time getting used to, I'm using controller because I don't want to play this kind of game on a keyboard despite accepting that mouse aiming is the optimal way to shoot.
In the beginning I tried being a good Samaritan and burying the corpses of innocent people but once I found out that shovels wear out I left their bodies to the vultures.
Inventory management isn't that bad, I played Diablo 2 relatively recently, not to mention Path of Exile.
Not picking up everything like a kleptomaniac is something more games should be doing, or you can break the economy easily.
I noticed that missions have time and it passes if you pick up junk, return to the city and sell it a lot, then the mission can fail?
Smart way to discourage the player from breaking the economy too much.