What do you think about AoD?

[Ulminati]

sothisiswhatithascometo.jpg

To paraphrase:
Talking with Helton about AoD is like playing chess with a pigeon. No matter how good you are at chess the pigeon is going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board, and strut around like it's victorious.

 

[Johannes]

Well it does. Grow a pair or fuck off. What are you doing on this website anyways? Don't you like RPGs?

I'm here for GD, duh.

 

[Vault Dweller]

...

Thanks, but why?

 

[Grunker]

Huh?

 

[Phelot]

Helton back in da HOUSE!



I voted good. I agree with whoever said that the teleportation detracted from the spatial awareness. It's been awhile since I played the demo, but I don't recall there being too many options allowing you to just meet an NPC at a location rather than being teleported. That would have been nice, especially when starting out. Teleportation will be great on a replay when you don't want to run across the map for the millionth time.

 

[Grunker]

...

Thanks, but why?

Are you refering to the pre-order I just placed? I've already pre-ordered the game for myself, the one I just placed was a birthday present for the nephew I mentioned in this post, if you recall? (think that's still my most brofisted post to date )

If that wasn't what you were talking about I have no idea what you meant.

 

[Achilles]

I think teleporting should be a choice. Give the player the choice to teleport to the next location immediately or let him explore if he wants to take in the scenery.

 

[sea]

I like the Darklands-ish text adventure choices. However, there are several elements of the design that detract from the experience, imho. The game is all about replaying with different characters and seeing what different paths and outcomes are possible - but the skill checks are way too static, and it's too easy to know exactly how something will play out based on previous characters. To keep replayability alive, I'd add significantly more randomization to skill checks (at least -5 to +5 threshold, set on each character creation), making each playthrough a slightly different alternative universe. But then again, I'm one of those guys who think More Randomization improves just about anything (if done properly, of course, not to get into off topic details).

I like guaranteed success in skill checks, but I think there should also be a threshold around the ideal required point that allows for a random chance at success. For example, if the skill check is 50, with 40 you will still have a 10% chance, 45 a 50% chance, etc. This would discourage power gaming and point hoarding, and if you didn't show the absolute required value for the check, there would be some ambiguity to things that would make it more difficult to metagame the system - but at the same time you would still have that security that "yes, if I'm really, really fucking good at something, I'm going to succeed every time."

I llike the "you always have a small chance at failure" idea in theory (i.e. 95% success cap) but most players are probably just going to save scum their way through that stuff if they know they can get away with it. At a certain point it becomes more frustrating than fun, unless you specifically included lots of nested skill checks to discourage reloads and give players a second or third chance.

 

[dbx]

The only things i didn't like were:
-Teleportation. Should really be optional.
-For some reason combat didn't felt very tactical, just a matter of choosing the only correct action, with every other option leading to sure failure, and there was a little too much left to randomness. Still, it's the best thing i have seen in the last 10 years or even more.

I don't care much about this, but it could improve the game a bit:
-the environment is a bit too static: there is little interaction, few lootable stuff etc...

I know the game isn't designed for party-based playtrough, but i would totally buy a DLC that enables a fully controllable party

 

[hiver]

I also agree that environment and exploration of it should be improved as much as possible. Not for hording loot specifically but to expand the exploration of the setting and its themes and stories.
AoD has a really great and well made setting. You should use it more. MORE!

 

[mediocrepoet]

I enjoyed the combat demo quite a bit but felt a bit let down by the overall demo though I did still think the game seemed fairly good.

+ I like the differences in weapons and armour making different combat styles actually feel different.
- However, I think that having more than one controllable character in combat would have helped play up the strengths of having different feeling equipment.

+ I liked being able to walk around and see or be approached by various types of characters and events.
- I found automatic teleporting to be overused and think that it takes away from the feeling of a cohesive world instead of a series of event hubs. I think a simple dialogue option like used in many other games (e.g. Would you like to return to town? Yes/No) would help a lot - especially if the option could be triggered more than once so as to allow you to finish what you were doing before the leap.

+ I thought the inclusion of different skill checks being used that seemed to make sense was great. I also liked that sometimes characters would try to take advantage of your naivete or act dismissive towards.

+ The world seems cool with some sort of demon/magic based fantasy apocalypse along with the world map showing a fairly barren and cratered landscape.
- I'd have liked more chance to learn about the overall setting - though maybe that's something that I just didn't find or that will be remedied in the full release.

 

[Marsal]

Huh?

Why are you so butthurt, Grunker?

I like guaranteed success in skill checks, but I think there should also be a threshold around the ideal required point that allows for a random chance at success. For example, if the skill check is 50, with 40 you will still have a 10% chance, 45 a 50% chance, etc. This would discourage power gaming and point hoarding, and if you didn't show the absolute required value for the check, there would be some ambiguity to things that would make it more difficult to metagame the system - but at the same time you would still have that security that "yes, if I'm really, really fucking good at something, I'm going to succeed every time."

I llike the "you always have a small chance at failure" idea in theory (i.e. 95% success cap) but most players are probably just going to save scum their way through that stuff if they know they can get away with it. At a certain point it becomes more frustrating than fun, unless you specifically included lots of nested skill checks to discourage reloads and give players a second or third chance.

This has potential, but I feel all of these "workarounds" are just superficial and don't address the problem.

I voted "Meh", but "AoD experience" is not easily summed with a word. I won't write a wall of drivel as before, but I agree with Grunker in principle.

 

[Grunker]

 

[Marsal]

Grunker, quit being so fucking butthurt! It's annoying!

Meanwhile, you need to post animated gifs, not pics, bro.

Allow me:

 

[Grunker]

Meanwhile, you need to post animated gifs, not pics, bro.

but they look funeh!

 

[PorkaMorka]

I think Grunker's wall of text had a lot of points that I agreed with. I also think that hiver's rebuttal was not expressed very coherently.

 

[Marsal]

I also think that hiver's rebuttal was not expressed very coherently.

What happened to Hindenburg was a slight mishap, right?

 

[Ulminati]

I also think that hiver's rebuttal was not expressed very coherently.

What happened to Hindenburg was a slight mishap, right?

Indeed. And a few people may have been slightly inconvenienced during Stalins regime

 

[FeelTheRads]

My question is why this is not on Kickstarter. Do they think they're too good for that, huh?

 

[Johannes]

My question is why this is not on Kickstarter. Do they think they're too good for that, huh?

Because they have enough funds by a conventional model to get the final product out without that. If you want to donate more than a usual preorder, I'm sure that's fine too.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Well, not sure about conventional method... they're doing pretty much what others do on Kickstarter ("pre-order" year(s) before there's a chance you see the game) so it's obvious they need the money. Why not Kickstarter then where they could probably get more?

 

[kaizoku]

The game is good. No doubt about that. The issue was more of me not being good enough for it. Well, me and a lot of other people it seems. (possibly the 2/5 that voted meh)

In any case, there is still room for improvement.


While it offers different ways to achieve goals, it is still often brutal. If you don't have those skill points in the right place... you're fucked. If you don't know the ins and outs of combat... you're fucked. It can be a fucking massacre(tm) Vince.

Often players complained about (recent) games being too easy or the PC being able to master lots of skills. And now when a challenging game is presented they/I can't handle the truth(tm). Maybe that is the cause of butthurt?

What I mean is, and putting things in perspective, in Fallout you could win at every battle, without having to master the system (not that there was much to master, but...). And when you lost some fight, you could reload, try again and you would succeed. (NB: I'm not saying here that fallout combat is the good stuff)
But in AoD you're practically expected to master the game from the start.
For me it's kind of a love-hate relationship. I like the fact that the combat is realistic in the sense that you're no superhero, but yeah... you're still supposed to do something in the game, right? like playing it and all that, instead of failing at every instance. felipepepe video was a testament to this.

So, while writing this, for demonstration purposes, I decided to start a new game using a Mercenary. I used 5 points on Axe, Block, Persuasion and Streetwise.
First fight with the assassin (after buying a shield)... died 7 times, was victorious 2. Is this how it is supposed to go?
Yeah I know you're given the option to let him go, but... you're a mercenary. Are you supposed to pussy out from all combat encounters?
Curiously enough, the best option is indeed to avoid at encounter since you get an easier and more profitable fight with the Vardanis quest.
But move just a little bit further, to the imperial guards raid on the caravan, and the rape continues this time by the merchants guards. (if I do some quests before, buy some new gear, then it becomes a feasible encounter)



But I'm not sure what bothers me the most: if the combat difficulty or that broken RNG.

And on another note, is it really the combat that is challenging or the character build exploitation process that is challenging?



I have already left a wall of feedback on a ITS thread, but here is some more.

+ the world, the lore, the factions
+ replayability
+ being able to play the game from the different POVs/factions
+ no filler combat
+ different ways to solve things
+ C&C
+ graphics

- you're expected to master the combat system
- fix that RNG algorithm (already a good thread on ITS about this)
- no strategy in terms of positioning, at least flanking should be there (ie: when you're being sandwiched)
- throwable weapons should have some % chance of being recovered in loot phase
- game world needs more decadence
- camera needs to stop reseting
- 33% chance of crashing on reload, which for a game like this is a major shit
- AI has room for improvement... and is annoying when it steals my (s)kill points (another vote for controllable party)
- could use more music tracks

* use the loading screens to give combat tips to the player
* improve that combat log console
* provide feedback on NPC health with mouse hover



About teleporting and world interaction.

Some people complain about this, but the fact is AoD is not the type of game where you go walking and explore and interact. Changing the approach would be an insane overall! 3 more years of work?!
The negative aspect of teleporting is that sometimes it prevents you from saving in between and you're forced to go on multiple combat encounters in a row.
I think I rather have it dry as it is, than to add some "secret" interactive locations.

The most obvious conclusion is that people who struggled failed to understand and "utilize the options at their disposal correctly". Your comments (can't use nets, can't shift attack modes, one attack is usually the best) only reinforce this conclusion. No offense, of course.

I'd say that the fault is mine - these options could and should have been presented better, but we're working on it.

The problem in using nets/bolas/pylums/etc relies on the throwing skill, which if you haven't invested in, is going to suck. I think that was what Grunker was saying.

About attack modes... yeah, the problem for me was that for most encounters (right from the start) the probability to hit was so low, that I was forced to go for fast attack almost every time, which then produced little to no damage on armored opponents.

 

[Raghar]

AoD got mixed reaction on the Codex. Some people liked it and praised it, saw people disliked it and ranted endlessly. Business as usual, I suppose. Still, I'd like to know what the locals think about the game.

So, what do you think about the game (good, bad, meh) and why (what's the main reason why you liked or disliked it)?

Is it out? I wrote about some flaws, you ignored it. So why do you expect you can see better in this thread? Have you seen Krater? It might be one of programs that is competing with that. In fact that Anie's game looks better.

 

[Ulminati]

The game is good. No doubt about that. The issue was more of me not being good enough for it. Well, me and a lot of other people it seems. (possibly the 2/5 that voted meh).

Interesting quandry. If 40% of all people who play a game think it's "meh", are they all shitslupring dumbfucks who can't appreciate glorious art, or is the game just decidedly mediocre and not worth all the whiteknighting it receives from a vocal core of people?

 

[Grunker]

I play all the console-trash I can get near, and herp derp on the Codex all day about AoD and Dead State

Shh, Ulm, we know bro. We know. It's OK to troll at the 'dex.

EDIT: Why are you not running a Codex FUMBBL league?