Gothic What is the most overrated cRPG on the codex?

[KateMicucci]

New Vegas >>> FO3 > Oblivion

Kind of funny that you do not have the PER & INT required to measure the significant difference in quality. What next will you claim, Skyrim is better than all three?

Oblivion is the worst TES and its still far better than FO3.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Oblivion is the worst TES

I only played both for ~20 hours before I got bored, but I actually liked Oblivion more than Skyrim. Skyrim just removed too many systems.

 

[Ash]

Can you not just equip some grenades and consider them fire magicka? Have a little imagination.

And I don't know why you boil down the quality of the entire games down to a couple combat mechanics.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Useful_Spells

spellcrafting was fucking dope and one of the cool things bethesda games used to have

It was yes, but it was heavily dumbed down in Oblivion over Morrowind and was all the same magic otherwise, so I gained no fun from it. Combat in general largely was dumbed down since so many relevant systems were removed. At least use Morrowind in your argument. Simply more engaging even with the horrible RNG, animations etc as it is more complex and challenging. Pushes you to play smart, use your resources and skills, keep yourself and your equipment in good condition etc. Oblivion barely demands that from you.

NV has a ton of combat related stuff Oblivion does not, like localized health, ammunition (doesn't regenerate on rest like magicka, which is incline), VATS for whatever that is worth, headshots, cover-based combat as opposed to standing next to each other trading blows, reloading weapons, hardcore mode which factors into combat in a variety of ways, and it's simply more visceral/better feedback than Oblivion's jank animations and effects.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Can you not just equip some grenades and consider them fire magicka? Have a little imagination.

And I don't know why you boil down the quality of the entire games down to a couple combat mechanics.

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Useful_Spells

spellcrafting was fucking dope and one of the cool things bethesda games used to have

It was yes, but it was heavily dumbed down in Oblivion over Morrowind and was all the same magic otherwise, so I gained no fun from it. Combat in general largely was dumbed down since so many relevant systems were removed. At least use Morrowind in your argument. Simply more engaging even with the horrible RNG, animations etc as it is more complex and challenging.

NV has a ton of combat related stuff Oblivion does not, like localized health, ammunition (doesn't regenerate on rest like magicka, which is incline), VATS for whatever that is worth, headshots, cover-based combat as opposed to standing next to each other trading blows, reloading weapons, hardcore mode which factors into combat in a variety of ways, and it's simply more visceral/better feedback than Oblivion's jank animations and effects.

no magic

 

[perfectslumbers]

spellcrafting was fucking dope and one of the cool things bethesda games used to have

Spellcrafting is cool but Oblivion and Morrowind's spellcrafting are pathetic when living in the shadow of Daggerfall's gigachad spellcrafting so I cannot approve of them.

 

[Ash]

"no magic"

But it does.

Frag Grenade = Fire
Incediary = More Fire
Nuka Grenade = Even more fire
Nuke = Ultimate fire
flashbang = blind spell
Pulse grenade = calm robot
Pulse Mine = calm robot trap
Gas bomb = sleep spell
VATS = Slow time spell
Euclid's C-Finder = Summon Meteor spell

Various perks, traits and implants offer inhuman effects also.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Trying to think of RPGs that have worse combat than FNV and it's actually kinda tough.

Seriously? KOTOR 1&2, Dungeon Siege 1&2, at least. That's just off the top of my head.

 

[Black Angel]

Odds are, something you like is pretty much overrated. Why? Because this is RPG Codex.

 

[Pink Eye]

DeepOcean Wait. Why'd you delete that post? It was funny... I like funny stuff....

 

[DeepOcean]

DeepOcean Wait. Why'd you delete that post? It was funny... I like funny stuff....

Nah, too beating a dead horse.

 

[Ryzer]

It was yes, but it was heavily dumbed down in Oblivion over Morrowind and was all the same magic otherwise, so I gained no fun from it. Combat in general largely was dumbed down since so many relevant systems were removed. At least use Morrowind in your argument. Simply more engaging even with the horrible RNG, animations etc as it is more complex and challenging. Pushes you to play smart, use your resources and skills, keep yourself and your equipment in good condition etc. Oblivion barely demands that from you.

NV has a ton of combat related stuff Oblivion does not, like localized health, ammunition (doesn't regenerate on rest like magicka, which is incline), VATS for whatever that is worth, headshots, cover-based combat as opposed to standing next to each other trading blows, reloading weapons, hardcore mode which factors into combat in a variety of ways, and it's simply more visceral/better feedback than Oblivion's jank animations and effects.

Gothic is way above those trash games.
Also lol at "pushes you to play smart", no it's just left click spam. Sometimes you open your inventory and select a potion or a spell if you are in danger and that's about it.

 

[DeepOcean]

I go to Morrowind to get high on LSD and see mushrooms everywhere and to Gothic to be beaten and robbed by spanish thugs, stop with the "all games must be like the game I like" guise, just enjoy life, drugs AND being beaten like a high school boy are good character forming experiences. You cant even take your LSD trip in peace if you are being stopped every 30 feet by spanish thugs that want your lunch money and end let you on fetal position.

Also, first person view sucks for melee combat on all games ever and it is pretty much standard boinking enemies with the left mouse and when games try to be different, the result is even worse. For all the faults of Morrowind, you have abilities and you can get OP loot right on the beginning of the game so you have plenty of options of how you are going to left click enemies to their deaths, yes, sure, you can get immortal but that at least required you wish to be, on modern games, you are the complete slave of level scaling and nothing else matters, no abilities, spells or weapons, now those games are real just left click spamming because you dont even need to think how to do the left clicking anymore.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Also, first person view sucks

good post

 

[Adenocaulon]

Trying to think of RPGs that have worse combat than FNV and it's actually kinda tough.

Seriously? KOTOR 1&2, Dungeon Siege 1&2, at least. That's just off the top of my head.

And the combat in Dungeon Siege is better than in the Infinity Engine

 

[Sobchak]

Disco Elysium.

not an RPG

I was't expecting such a hollow opinion from a man of your intellect. You keep bashing on Disco and I thought you would appreciate choice and consequence more.

 

[luj1]

Well CRPGs came from TTRPGs, and TTRPGs came from wargaming tradition where the mechanical combat layer is crucial.

TTRPGs were born when people began giving stories to figurines in miniature wargaming. CnC is built upon that mechanical foundation, it's not the foundation itself.

 

[perfectslumbers]

Well CRPGs came from TTRPGs, and TTRPGs came from wargaming tradition where the mechanical combat layer is crucial.

Are modern storygame ttrpgs like pbta not rpgs?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Well CRPGs came from TTRPGs, and TTRPGs came from wargaming tradition where the mechanical combat layer is crucial.

Are modern storygame ttrpgs like pbta not rpgs?

no combat = no rpg

 

[mediocrepoet]

Well CRPGs came from TTRPGs, and TTRPGs came from wargaming tradition where the mechanical combat layer is crucial.

Are modern storygame ttrpgs like pbta not rpgs?

They made a tabletop game called "Praise Be To Allah"? Crazy.

 

[Pink Eye]

Yeah I'm not sure what pbta means either...

 

[perfectslumbers]

Sorry I shouldn't have used an acronym for a ttrpg on a video game forum. It's Powered by The Apocalypse, a ttrpg system that's used in many games like the d20 system is. It's designed for rpg sessions that are less like a game with mechanics and stats like trad rpgs are and are more like emergent stories that emerge out of the results of the mechanics, as well as relationships between player characters. I've never played any PBTA games because it sounds lame as hell but it's a massive fad in the indie ttrpg scene right now. One of the PBTA games for example is a game called Monsterhearts, where the players are teenage gothic monsters that attend a monster high school and it's all about teenage romances and relationship drama. Some creepy guy even made a D&D clone called Dungeon World with it.

Anyway I have no stake in the game with what an rpg is or isn't. I was just curious to hear what other people thought. As far as I'm concerned if someone says "I made an rpg!" I'll call it an rpg.

 

[Pink Eye]

That sounds incredibly gay. Bruh FriendlyMerchant can you imagine if our dnd sessions was some gay LARRP like pbta?!

 

[Horselats]

Morrowind is vastly overrated. Its a top 30s game, but top 10? Against Icewind Dale or Betrayal at Krondor? Nah.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

t's Powered by The Apocalypse, a ttrpg system that's used in many games like the d20 system is. It's designed for rpg sessions that are less like a game with mechanics and stats like trad rpgs are and are more like emergent stories that emerge out of the results of the mechanics, as well as relationships between player characters. I've never played any PBTA games because it sounds lame as hell but it's a massive fad in the indie ttrpg scene right now. One of the PBTA games for example is a game called Monsterhearts, where the players are teenage gothic monsters that attend a monster high school and it's all about teenage romances and relationship drama. Some creepy guy even made a D&D clone called Dungeon World with it.

Anyway I have no stake in the game with what an rpg is or isn't. I was just curious to hear what other people thought. As far as I'm concerned if someone says "I made an rpg!" I'll call it an rpg.

"storytelling" games are not RPGs, but that is not to say that they are not games, nor to claim they lack high entertainment value--fun! My complaint has been that these games (s)hould not claim to be RPGs

 

[TheEntitledOne]

I would say Arcanum. I liked it but no way it should be part of the Holy Trinity of cRPGs. Too broken and too unbalanced.
The game is presented as Tech vs Magic, but tech builds are kind of underpowered. Guns? They do bullshit damage. I don't want to shoot a dark elf 10 times with an elephant gun to drop him. Magic, outside of some utility spells and cheesy spam is lackluster (despite having many options).

Charisma/non-combative builds lose all the juicy XP you get when your character (not henchmen) harm an enemy, so you will always be several levels behind a murderhobo (who can just put the excess character point in whatever non-combat skills you want).
My most OP run turned to be a runaway with the circus Half-Ogre that kills anything in one hit with a butter knife.

It does have great character creation and everything up to Tarant (including city sidequests) is great, but after you continue the main quest game degenerates into trash mob clean-up duty.