1eyedking What's wrong with min-maxing?

[Skinwalker]

I think some people think that "proper" roleplaying in a CRPG is leveling a stat for story purposes, as opposed to gameplay.

"My character just finished a quest that involved going to the Arcane realm of pure magic and read some lore books about spellcasting, therefore I will put a point into INT even though my PC is a barbarian and has literally zero benefit from INT." - cringe, on par with autists who pretend that their Dragonborn needs to regularly eat food (even if the healthbar is full) and squat in the bushes in Skyrim, so that it's rEaLiStIc.

 

[S.torch]

No, its not, its contrary to the hippy spirit of larping.

The point of a role-playing game is to roleplay a character. Game's systems are a vehicle for that. Playing different characters with different powers is fun. Having to play the same character every time because is the only build that can beat the game, not so much.

single player game

Precisely because it is a single-player game mix-maxing shouldn't be needed. You should be allowed any style of play as long as you engage the game's rules. Instead of having a "gotcha" moment 10 hours into the game where you realise your character is useless.

 

[CHEMS]

I'm sorry but i think min maxing is fun and i will not pretend it's not

I enjoy breaking games and make developers butthurt about it

 

[Skinwalker]

I'm sorry but i think min maxing is fun and i will not pretend it's not

I enjoy breaking games and make developers butthurt about it

YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG! NO FUN ALLOWED!

 

[Lhynn]

The point of a role-playing game is to roleplay a character.

This is the single most retarded thing posted in cRPG after everything PorkyThePaladin has ever posted.

Playing different characters with different powers is fun.

It is. You can usually minmax with all sorts of characters in rpgs, its always fun to do so.

Having to play the same character every time because is the only build that can beat the game, not so much.

What the fuck are you talking about? When has there been a single notable crpg that could only be beaten with a single build?

Precisely because it is a single-player game mix-maxing shouldn't be needed.

It never is, nigger, minmaxing is fun. Engaging with the systems and making them your bitch is all part of the fun.

You should be allowed any style of play as long as you engage the game's rules.

This has always been the case, you retarded mongoloid.

Instead of having a "gotcha" moment 10 hours into the game where you realise your character is useless

If the game has that moment, then its meant to be a game about minmaxing and character building, and you choosing not to engage in that while still playing it is a "woman moment".

Not to mention that such games have many, many, many builds for the player to discover, and discovering them is part of the fun.

 

[Litmanen]

I'm sorry but i think min maxing is fun and i will not pretend it's not

I enjoy breaking games and make developers butthurt about it

YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG! NO FUN ALLOWED!

Fun is allowed, always.

Simply, he has a sociopathic concept of fun.

I'm sure he plays Call Of Duty with all the cheats on.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Lhynn has to min-max and power(bottom)-game to compensate for being Lhynn in RL. The rest of us play to be immersed and experience cool shit.

 

[CHEMS]

I'm sorry but i think min maxing is fun and i will not pretend it's not

I enjoy breaking games and make developers butthurt about it

YOU'RE PLAYING IT WRONG! NO FUN ALLOWED!

Fun is allowed, always.

Simply, he has a sociopathic concept of fun.

I'm sure he plays Call Of Duty with all the cheats on.

Min maxing isn't cheating and you know it

Seethe

 

[King Crispy]

I'm starting to believe that Liberal already made up his mind about min-maxing before starting the thread.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

There are people who will say picking any advantageous build/skill/weapon/spell/etc is min/maxing and accuse you of being bad at the game by failing to make it harder on yourself (???).

"Oh dude you took fire magic AND the fire race AND the class that buffs fire, you suck at the game you can't handle real challenge!!!" etc. etc.

There's no such thing as a fair fight. All weapons technology is an attempt to kill from a position of maximum safety.

 

[CHEMS]

There are people who will say picking any advantageous build/skill/weapon/spell/etc is min/maxing and accuse you of being bad at the game by failing to make it harder on yourself (???).

"Oh dude you took fire magic AND the fire race AND the class that buffs fire, you suck at the game you can't handle real challenge!!!" etc. etc.

There's no such thing as a fair fight. All weapons technology is an attempt to kill from a position of maximum safety.

Besides, min maxing takes skill and knowledge of the game, all the meta and all that shit

Being butthurt about min maxing just makes no sense at all, and there's people that get butthurt with min maxing on single player games, lmao

 

[mediocrepoet]

If you're not roleplaying in an RPG, you're doing something wrong.

I think that games that are designed around min/maxing are usually ass in terms of gameplay. Especially when the ruleset is a spreadsheet build abomination like 3E or Pathfinder. Ultimately, the "gameplay" ends up with you looking up some broken build online and using that. And if you don't, you either math it out yourself (what fun) or just suck at the game because the dev designed it for the worst kind of player.

5e has gay builds like Sorcadin (Sorcerer/Paladin) that abandon roleplaying for big numbers. This is the death of the genre if it's allowed to continue.

This shit started in 3E and has always driven me nuts. It even infected the tabletop scene and was shitty because it caused discussions like: Alright, look, you can take those classes if you can explain the character concept to me in how this goes together and it's not a complete asspull.

 

[Tweed]

RPGs are games, games are made to win. If you aren't winning then you're losing.

 

[mediocrepoet]

RPGs are games, games are made to win. If you aren't winning then you're losing.

If you need to min max to win, you're probably retarded.

Or playing original release KOTC2.

 

[CHEMS]

RPGs are games, games are made to win. If you aren't winning then you're losing.

No no no, you have to roleplay as a loser, if you play to win you're breaking muh imershun and shit

 

[NotSweeper]

There's two types of people. Combatfags who min-max and "people" who enjoy Larian schlock and 5E.
When people use minmaxing in a disparaging way, I find it amusing as they aren't really criticizing minmaxing so much as they're outing themselves as being massive fucking faggots.
It's akin to a faggot going "Oh my God, are you inserting your penis in a vagina? That isn't how you're supposed to do it, you're supposed to enjoy the experience of inserting your penis in a man's shithole"
I just can't take 'em seriously.

Especially when the ruleset is a spreadsheet build abomination like 3E or Pathfinder.

Case in point.

 

[Litmanen]

Min maxing isn't cheating and you know it

There are people who will say picking any advantageous build/skill/weapon/spell/etc is min/maxing and accuse you of being bad at the game by failing to make it harder on yourself (???).

Besides, min maxing takes skill and knowledge of the game, all the meta and all that shit

If you min/max to win, every single game, you are exactly like cheaters in Call of Duty and people who buy always the same 6/7 wonderkids in FM on the first day of game. You are not players AWARE of game mechanics, you are TAKING ADVANTAGES from game mechanics. You choose the only one collection of skill/abilities/characteristics that makes you god-like.

You start from level 1 already knowing EXACTLY what will you be and WEAR at Level 35. That isn't awareness. No (rpg)hero would do any choice telling to himseld "yeah, I know that in two months I will encounter this boss and this combo of skills will be perfect to beat him".

If you take 10 different min-maxers and look at their games, you'll see always the same identic gameplay/video.

All this just sum up to being a sad person who doesn't enjoy to DISCOVER a game by playing it, making mistakes, good and bad choices and deal with them, like in normal games. You're playing it through an Excel Sheet.

So, all in all, it's good you all know this is not a "butthurt" reaction, it's just a desperate attempt to tell you: "You have serious problem of self confidence".

Now, don't forget to upload your videos about how to bring San Marino to win the World Cup in only 8 years.

 

[CHEMS]

Min maxing isn't cheating and you know it

There are people who will say picking any advantageous build/skill/weapon/spell/etc is min/maxing and accuse you of being bad at the game by failing to make it harder on yourself (???).

Besides, min maxing takes skill and knowledge of the game, all the meta and all that shit

If you min/max to win, every single game, you are exactly like cheaters in Call of Duty and people who buy always the same 6/7 wonderkids in FM on the first day of game. You are not players AWARE of game mechanics, you are TAKING ADVANTAGES from game mechanics. You choose the only one collection of skill/abilities/characteristics that makes you god-like.

You start from level 1 already knowing EXACTLY what will you be and WEAR at Level 35. That isn't awareness. No (rpg)hero would do any choice telling to himseld "yeah, I know that in two months I will encounter this boss and this combo of skills will be perfect to beat him".

If you take 10 different min-maxers and look at their games, you'll see always the same identic gameplay/video.

All this just sum up to being a sad person who doesn't enjoy to DISCOVER a game by playing it, making mistakes, good and bad choices and deal with them, like in normal games. You're playing it through an Excel Sheet.

So, all in all, it's good you all know this is not a "butthurt" reaction, it's just a desperate attempt to tell you: "You have serious problem of self confidence".

Now, don't forget to upload your videos about how to bring San Marino to win the World Cup in only 8 years.

 

[Litmanen]

Min maxing isn't cheating and you know it

There are people who will say picking any advantageous build/skill/weapon/spell/etc is min/maxing and accuse you of being bad at the game by failing to make it harder on yourself (???).

Besides, min maxing takes skill and knowledge of the game, all the meta and all that shit

If you min/max to win, every single game, you are exactly like cheaters in Call of Duty and people who buy always the same 6/7 wonderkids in FM on the first day of game. You are not players AWARE of game mechanics, you are TAKING ADVANTAGES from game mechanics. You choose the only one collection of skill/abilities/characteristics that makes you god-like.

You start from level 1 already knowing EXACTLY what will you be and WEAR at Level 35. That isn't awareness. No (rpg)hero would do any choice telling to himseld "yeah, I know that in two months I will encounter this boss and this combo of skills will be perfect to beat him".

If you take 10 different min-maxers and look at their games, you'll see always the same identic gameplay/video.

All this just sum up to being a sad person who doesn't enjoy to DISCOVER a game by playing it, making mistakes, good and bad choices and deal with them, like in normal games. You're playing it through an Excel Sheet.

So, all in all, it's good you all know this is not a "butthurt" reaction, it's just a desperate attempt to tell you: "You have serious problem of self confidence".

Now, don't forget to upload your videos about how to bring San Marino to win the World Cup in only 8 years.

Not at all a spit in the face, just a confirmation of your intellectual inferiority.
I didn't need it, but it's always pleasing, thank you.

 

[Average Manatee]

A lot depends on how difficult the game is geared to be.

Morrowind? If you actually min-max everything here then I don't see the point. Have fun getting infinite gold and 10k in all your stats within 20 mins?

Pathfinder games? Bro you don't wanna be swinging at 35 AC with 5 AB in the first chapter do you?

 

[Tweed]

RPGs are games, games are made to win. If you aren't winning then you're losing.

If you need to min max to win, you're probably retarded.

Or playing original release KOTC2.

Kobold meme party finished the game where others failed so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

 

[mediocrepoet]

All this just sum up to being a sad person who doesn't enjoy to DISCOVER a game by playing it, making mistakes, good and bad choices and deal with them, like in normal games. You're playing it through an Excel Sheet.

There are a few of them around here. Asking advice to plan the most epicest of dudebros before even booting the game. Why even buy a game at that point? Just watch a bit on a stream and write down your build plan while jerking it to your imagined greatness.

 

[mediocrepoet]

RPGs are games, games are made to win. If you aren't winning then you're losing.

If you need to min max to win, you're probably retarded.

Or playing original release KOTC2.

Kobold meme party finished the game where others failed so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I remember, relax before you sprain your shoulder patting yourself on the back.

 

[Litmanen]

All this just sum up to being a sad person who doesn't enjoy to DISCOVER a game by playing it, making mistakes, good and bad choices and deal with them, like in normal games. You're playing it through an Excel Sheet.

There are a few of them around here. Asking advice to plan the most epicest of dudebros before even booting the game. Why even buy a game at that point? Just watch a bit on a stream and write down your build plan while jerking it to your imagined greatness.

Just two weeks ago I was considering putting you on the 'ignore' list, and now here we are, in agreement.

If someone had told me, I would never have believed it.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Min/maxing is not putting all your points into a stat you need. You are already starting with a false premise, Liberal.

Min/maxing, when it's used disparagingly in a gaming context, is putting all your points into a stat that's beneficial to your character's power at the expense of role-playing, immersion, realism, etc.

So for example, if you are RPing a warrior, maxing out his warrior abilities is fine (e.g. strength, dexterity, stamina, weapon skill, etc), but if under whatever system you are using, he happens to get some kind of boon from having a particular sorcerer ability, so you multiclass him to a sorcerer, that's min/maxing. Because warrior-sorcerers are dumb.