Which programming language did you choose and why?

[motherfucker]

 

[SomeGuyWithAnOpinion]

IT'S ALL ALGORITHMS AND DATA STRUCTURES

LANGUAGES ARE JUST INTERFACES

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

BULLSHIT. DEVELOPMENT IS LEARNING ONE SPECIFIC FRAMEWORK AND CLINGING TO IT LIKE A DYING A MAN. LEARNING NEW WAYS AND THINKING OUT OF THE BOX IS FOR LOSERS. WHAT'S NEXT ? LEARNING MATH ?

"Bro, just use service locator"

 

[Hag]

"Bro, just use service locator"

OF COURSE YOU MAY NEED ADDITIONAL EUNCAPSULASHION.

 

[ds]

How can you have holy wars if you do not devote yourself to one faction. Using multiple languages? Burn the heretic!

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Tbh, languages don't matter that much, most programming skills/concepts are cross language (at least among common OOP type languages), but programming in Python is like having sex while programming in C++/C# is like getting fucked by a bear.

 

[Cohesion]

Tbh, languages don't matter that much, most programming skills/concepts are cross language (at least among common OOP type languages), but programming in Python is like having sex while programming in C++/C# is like getting fucked by a bear.

Guess you would like Scala then. It's like J++.

 

[Viata]

is like getting fucked by a bear

Pretty sure BG3 fans prefer Rust.

 

[behold_a_man]

3. Can you name another high-level language without multi line lambdas?

I know it's a prehistoric post, but multi-line lambdas were always possible:

x = lambda: [1,
        2]
y = lambda: 0 or \
        7
z = lambda x, y, \
        s: x+y+s
print(x(), y(), z(1, 2, 3))

Result:

[1, 2] 7 6

Which is a result of this:
https://docs.python.org/3.0/reference/lexical_analysis.html#explicit-line-joining
(Note, that it was already present in 2008).
What you can't have is having multiple expressions within lambda's body.

Also, are those new Python syntax features used really often (3.10+: type soft keyword, pattern matching, and exception groups)? I never used them, I never saw them in production, I don't see many uses for them, and I don't think their use cases justify extending the language reference by that much. I've always felt the language should converge at some point (i.e., the number of changes to the core of the language should be smaller and smaller every year; if anything, libraries should change). If not, it'll become as messy as C++ - which is something Stroustrup pointed out himself in 'Remember the Vasa!' essay - and shall probably fade into obscurity.

 

[Arbiter]

What you can't have is having multiple expressions within lambda's body.

Right, this is what I meant, all other popular languages support lambas with multiple statements.

 

[Twiglard]

Meh, all these code monkeys making games in C/C++, and now in C# (Unity), meanwhile the Gigachad coded a 2.5 billion game in Java (Minecraft, supposedly a very slow language)

Then compare Minecraft Java's draw distance vs Minecraft C++'s draw distance vs Minecraft clones' draw distance...

 

[pakoito]

Meh, all these code monkeys making games in C/C++, and now in C# (Unity), meanwhile the Gigachad coded a 2.5 billion game in Java (Minecraft, supposedly a very slow language)

Then compare Minecraft Java's draw distance vs Minecraft C++'s draw distance vs Minecraft clones' draw distance...

It's less C++ and more having an army of MS engineers with perfect insight.

 

[Twiglard]

It's less C++ and more having an army of MS engineers with perfect insight.

No. There are many mods and open-source clones that do proper draw distances.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Meh, all these code monkeys making games in C/C++, and now in C# (Unity), meanwhile the Gigachad coded a 2.5 billion game in Java (Minecraft, supposedly a very slow language)

Then compare Minecraft Java's draw distance vs Minecraft C++'s draw distance vs Minecraft clones' draw distance...

You are missing the point though. The gigachad used a higher level language (Java) to make something awesome quickly. Then of course the code monkeys can come in and optimize it, but by then the thing is already made. The same patterns shows up all over, most of the largest, well known websites/webapps were rapidly developed in Python, and then once they are a thing and bringing in mountains of gold, teams of later programmers re-code parts or the entire thing in faster lower level languages. But the higher level language allows a small team/in some cases individual to quickly develop a functional application and get the whole ball rolling.

 

[Catacombs]

MS engineers with perfect insight.

That's a stretch.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

If Microsoft ever hired an engineer with perfect insight, the same exact moment a giant black hole would appear in their Redmond headquarters and suck the entire company in, in order to avoid ruining the universe with an unsolvable paradox.

 

[pakoito]

Okay, it was an exaggeration, but you know what I meant. They knew what the engine was meant to do and where the pitfall were.

 

[Krice]

Didn't a MS engineer find the xz backdoor from linux?

 

[Eisen]

Mojang should've ditched Java for C++ and put an scripting language for mods, whatever

 

[baboogy]

Meh, all these code monkeys making games in C/C++, and now in C# (Unity), meanwhile the Gigachad coded a 2.5 billion game in Java (Minecraft, supposedly a very slow language)

Then compare Minecraft Java's draw distance vs Minecraft C++'s draw distance vs Minecraft clones' draw distance...

You are missing the point though. The gigachad used a higher level language (Java) to make something awesome quickly. Then of course the code monkeys can come in and optimize it, but by then the thing is already made. The same patterns shows up all over, most of the largest, well known websites/webapps were rapidly developed in Python, and then once they are a thing and bringing in mountains of gold, teams of later programmers re-code parts or the entire thing in faster lower level languages. But the higher level language allows a small team/in some cases individual to quickly develop a functional application and get the whole ball rolling.

Honestly, I would tend to agree. If I think about it, it's rare for me to dislike a game solely off how well it runs, how polished, or janky, etc. it is, as long as the core gameplay is unique and interesting. I'm far more likely to put up with a slew of bugs and problems to play something fun than try to push through boring gameplay in an otherwise perfectly polished game.

Probably, a lot of people trying to hyperfocus on making an impressive feat of engineering in their game lose sight of the fact that the average consumer is probably not going to care about your clever solutions, or engine/language of choice, as long as the game is playable and has mechanics they like.

That's not to say people shouldn't think about these things when writing software. Obviously it's better if a program does what it needs to do well AND efficiently but the point is that memory/processing power is so cheap nowadays that people shouldn't feel like they need to practice until they are godlike programmers on the level of Carmack to just sit down and make something that works.

 

[Twiglard]

Mojang should've ditched Java for C++ and put an scripting language for mods, whatever

Can't blame anyone for avoiding C++98. It was the reason why languages like D, C# or Java exist in the first place.

 

[Gammer]

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Lol, it's literally the other way around. Python is a high level modern tool, C is the napped stone (that's used IN Python btw). But I guess that would go over C programmers' head unless it was written in malloc instructions and pointer arithmetic.

 

[Cerulean]

I've been writing software for a long time, so this is a fun thread...

I believe you should use strongly typed languages like C/C++, Java, Rust, etc. for infrastructure. Operating Systems, compilers, databases, web servers, even browsers, etc. Formal specifications, strongly defined behaviors, unit test suites, even formal RFCs, all that kind of thing. And infrastructure needs speed, so it's good that these usually compile down to the bare metal.

For day-to-day stuff, business logic, throwaway scripts, video game logic, use dynamic languages like Python, JavaScript, Bash, etc. Code that has to change constantly as the needs evolve. Something that never gets a more of a spec than some Word doc, or an e-mail chain, or no spec at all. No unit tests, just running the shit to make sure it works.

A nice side effect of dynamic languages is that you can never say "if it compiles, it ships", instead you have to run your code all the time to make sure it works. Plus it's nice to be able to step into a debugger, muck around with some variables, resume where you left off, and see where your logic should change. It's a totally different mindset from infrastructure code, and therefore it's fitting that you'd use a different language.

Anyway, no doubt somebody will hate this opinion, so have at it.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

No, I agree. When I am not trolling C/C++ nerds, obviously there is a role for these languages, anything that needs high performance, etc. And if I was running a corporate programmer team, I would pick something safe and strongly typed, like Java or C#, cause the quality of programmers will vary, and on a large team, it's really not the same. You need very clear code in those circumstances, because you will spend a lot of time dealing with other people's code.

But if you are coding by yourself/on a small team, working on some prototype, some new thing, or some code that just needs to do work, you would be crazy not to use something like Python. The convenience, the speed of getting working code, the elegance are out of this world. Ruby was the same way, but Python basically won out, so now it's just Python.

 

[tomphonse]

C, C++, C# it really doesn't matter. What matters is learning data-orientated design.
Programming any Strategy, Immersive Sim or cRPG is about building generalized and abstract systems that read and manipulate data.

But I learnt C++ because it's what was taught to me at college and I prefer Unreal to Unity.
Would like to do some projects in C though at some point just for the flex against OOPfags.