Interview Who you should blame for poor elements of Oblivion

[Naked_Lunch]

does anything speak well for the future anymore?

Gothic 3

 

[Claw]

Except they forgot to actually integrate most of it into actual gameplay elements, which makes it little more than a distraction.

You fogot another thing: The implementation sucks. Thank the light it's not gameplay-relevant.
How proud can you even be of implementing someone else's physics system? And then you didn't even do a good job.
If that guy can be proud of his work, anyone can be proud of anything. Watch me pee my pants! I am so proud of myself!

One comment: the lockpicking game. I know it's apparently a piece of cake for most of you, but embarassing as it is to admit it: I totally suck at it. I know all the tricks, watch the speed, listen to the sound, ba ba ba... But I break half my lockpicks on even simple locks. And I don't usually suck at reflexes, either.

Same for me. However, I have yet to raise my security skill enough to test if it gets better.

This one blows me away completely. Not so much that he thinks he succeeded, but the fact that he succeeded beyond his hopes and expectations. How horribly low were his expectations to begin with?

I dread to imagine what he hoped for.

 

[Nael]

This one blows me away completely. Not so much that he thinks he succeeded, but the fact that he succeeded beyond his hopes and expectations. How horribly low were his expectations to begin with?

I dread to imagine what he hoped for.

Cliffracers with Leather on up to Daedric beaks just to "break the monotony". But then the guy had a genius moment and remembered how much everyone hated that thing.... that flew... OH YEAH! So they took out everything they could, that flew or would cause something to fly...

Wait... What were we talking about again?

 

[Section8]

Well done Section8, bitter, but mostly fair. But admit it, you are just as proud of being an angry cunt as they are being Oblivion developers, so you have nothing on them.

Hah! That's a fair cop. But I'm honestly working on being less of a hypocrite.

 

[Justin Cray]

I just cannot comprehend why Bethesda just doesn't give out these mods for free to paying customers. ...

Afaik it's because that wouldn't be economically feasable. Like, the guy who made the Orrery took one month, and somebody had to pay him and stuff.

But I bet noone thought about tying that to registration. Maybe because nobody ever registers their games?

 

[LlamaGod]

But I bet noone thought about tying that to registration. Maybe because nobody ever registers their games?

They usually don't because there is usually no reason to register, so it'd be wise to make a reason.

Bethesda holds up with their logic 'Instead of figuring out why nobody uses something, just remove it'.

 

[Section8]

Afaik it's because that wouldn't be economically feasable. Like, the guy who made the Orrery took one month, and somebody had to pay him and stuff.

Wait, not economically feasible? The game sold 1.7 million copies in it's first couple of weeks. Bethesda are fucking raking in the cash, I don't think that employing someone to make a few free mods to show gratitude to their fans and maybe even attract more potential buyers by showing how supportive they can be is going to break the bank.

"Not economically feasible", my arse. Fuck, if nothing else, it gives the more junior staff something to do while the core teams gear their next projects into full production.

At the moment, it's just making them look like the cunts they truly are, squeezing cash for pointless addons, two of which have already hit the marketplace before an actual patch to fix problems with the game.

 

[Drakron]

One month?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ...

You dumbfuck, the orrey is simply placing new NPCs in camps with a dwemer item and then its simply looking at one mesh animates ... sure its pretty but Firemoth must taken a hell lot more time that the Orrey.

Besides you morons think Bethsoft employers are freelancers that are payed by piece, they get payed at the end of the month like the people at MacDonalds.

 

[bryce777]

what did steve and gavin do? It does not list them....

 

[Micmu]

Spin-doctoring.

 

[Justin Cray]

One month?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ...

You dumbfuck, the orrey is simply placing new NPCs in camps with a dwemer item and then its simply looking at one mesh animates ... sure its pretty but Firemoth must taken a hell lot more time that the Orrey.

Besides you morons think Bethsoft employers are freelancers that are payed by piece, they get payed at the end of the month like the people at MacDonalds.

Orrery. And you seem to know more about Bethesda then themselves. I wonder why.

 

[Justin Cray]

"Not economically feasible", my arse.

That's what they said. Not my words. *shrug*

 

[Saint_Proverbius]

"Not economically feasible", my arse.

That's what they said. Not my words. *shrug*

They also said that whole 1.7 million units shipped thing in a press release. That'saround $20 or so per unit sold for Bethesda. So, we're talking $34 million bucks in the first few weeks.

They may not be your words, but you were the one stupid enough to repeat them before you thought about them.

 

[Dhruin]

Just to be clear on the month thing - that's what one of the Bethsoft devs said at Qt3: it took an artist one month to do the Orrery art. Doesn't seem like value to me and I'd rather see them use a couple of the 200 McDungeons to script an interesting quest without having to do any significant new art. *shrug*

 

[Justin Cray]

"Not economically feasible", my arse.

That's what they said. Not my words. *shrug*

They may not be your words, but you were the one stupid enough to repeat them before you thought about them.

Well, you are right, I should have made some statistics up to bolster my statement. Maybe about how those imaginary 34 million bucks are spent or something. I really look stupid now.

 

[Vault Dweller]

They also said that whole 1.7 million units shipped thing in a press release. That'saround $20 or so per unit sold for Bethesda. So, we're talking $34 million bucks in the first few weeks.

Actually, we are not talking about 34 mil. We are talking about a shitload of copies shipped to stores to be sold, which may or may not be sold in the first few weeks or at all.

 

[RK47]

I read about the O-rly quest . It's just clearing 5 bandit camps scattered across map, then return with the parts.

So the main selling point is not the quest, but just the pretty graphics of O-rly. What's the point? Even Guild Wars doesn't fuck around with their customers this way.

 

[GhanBuriGhan]

Well, if customers had a shred of intelligence and self-control, they wouldn't rush out to buy it and complain afterwards, but simply not buy it. But alas...

 

[Psilon]

They wouldn't be customers if they did.

 

[Balor]

Well, hype does "wonders".

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Well, if customers had a shred of intelligence and self-control, they wouldn't rush out to buy it and complain afterwards, but simply not buy it. But alas...

Hang on, wasn't everyone who critiscised Oblivion told that they "haven't played it yet" so therefore they should buy it because they don't know whether it actually sucks or not? I don't know about you but they don't let you rent PC games over here.

They also said that whole 1.7 million units shipped thing in a press release. That'saround $20 or so per unit sold for Bethesda. So, we're talking $34 million bucks in the first few weeks.

Actually, we are not talking about 34 mil. We are talking about a shitload of copies shipped to stores to be sold, which may or may not be sold in the first few weeks or at all.

Actually, we are. Shipped = Bethesda received money. As Saint said, $20 would be about their share for being both publisher and developer and 1.7 Million units don't get shipped anywhere without someone receiving money for them. Being the game it was and hyped as heavily as it was, it would be very easy for Bethesda to have a no returns policy on product shipped. In fact you'll find that's pretty much standard policy for software (or most anything for that matter). Take something like Microsoft Office for example. Say there are 1 Million units of Office 2003 sitting on shelves somewhere in the world or held by retailers. If Microsoft releases Office 2006 tomorrow, those million units don't suddenly get shipped back with refunds sent out. The retailer bought them, it is the retailers job to sell what he's bought. Bad retailers don't get to just send the product back for a refund just because they haven't sold them.

So while they may not have been sold to customers who'll play the product (which is what most people mean by sales), they have been sold to retailers and distributors and Bethesda has received money for that. Think about it from any manufacturers point of view. Imagine a manufacturer producing and shipping 1 million or more units of their product, that product fails to be sold by distributors (who may have simply failed to market it properly) so the product gets sent back and the manufacturer now has to send out cheques to everyone for refunds. That doesn't happen in any sane industry or business model. Anywhere. At all. If the product wasn't expected to sell well or the manufacturer was trying to get into a market they haven't been in before, then yes, there might be such special offers made but it's on a case by case basis and it certainly isn't the norm for a large, well established company with a highly anticipated product.

Well, you are right, I should have made some statistics up to bolster my statement. Maybe about how those imaginary 34 million bucks are spent or something. I really look stupid now.

Let's put it this way. Oblivion is, without question, a successful title. In fact, it's a very successful title from a sales point of view. Especially when compared to the few hundred thousand copies that most games sell (of the somewhat a bit more than that which would've been shipped to distributors). Right now, if Bethesda aren't rolling in cash, then something, somewhere is seriously fucked up. So yes, they can afford to spend about $10,000 USD for the salaries of 4 guys for a month to make a bit more content. Hell, Blizzard seemed quite capable of running the battle.net servers and continuously patching their game purely from the sales of their products without having to charge any extra. Why can't Bethesda?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Actually, we are. Shipped = Bethesda received money. As Saint said, $20 would be about their share for being both publisher and developer and 1.7 Million units don't get shipped anywhere without someone receiving money for them.

Not claiming to be an expert, but who pays for those copies? The store chains? Unlikely. As far as I know, publishers produce a certain number of copies, based on expectations, and ship them to stores to be sold. Stores sell copies and give the money to the publisher, pocketing the markup. The publisher pays the developer (same company in this case). That's a positive scenario. A negative scenario is when stores fail to sell the number of copies that's been shipped (see FOBOS for examples) to them, in which case those copies are either shipped back to the publisher or hit the bargain bin (if that's what the publisher wants). That's the strength of publishers - being able to print and ship a shitload of copies, and the risk, which explains many losses and inability to recover the investments (see Atari for more details)

Being the game it was and hyped as heavily as it was, it would be very easy for Bethesda to have a no returns policy on product shipped.

Of course. I'm not talking about customers returning bought games, but about stores returning unsold ones.

Imagine a manufacturer producing and shipping 1 million or more units of their product, that product fails to be sold by distributors (who may have simply failed to market it properly) so the product gets sent back and the manufacturer now has to send out cheques to everyone for refunds. That doesn't happen in any sane industry or business model. Anywhere. At all.

Actually, it happens a lot. Look up Consignment Inventory and Vendor Managed Inventory models:

"Consignment Inventory is inventory that is in the possession of the customer, but is still owned by the supplier. In other words, the supplier places some of his inventory in his customer’s possession (in their store or warehouse) and allows them to sell or consume directly from his stock. The customer purchases the inventory only after he has resold or consumed it."

As for marketing properly, I'm sure you are aware that it was Bethesda who did the marketing, not EB Games or Wal-Mart.

If the product wasn't expected to sell well or the manufacturer was trying to get into a market they haven't been in before, then yes, there might be such special offers made but it's on a case by case basis and it certainly isn't the norm for a large, well established company with a highly anticipated product.

Which is why it makes more sense to sell such a highly anticipated product directly to the customer by using someone else's distribution chains, then to sell it to the chains at much lower price for further resale. Of course, that's where the risk kicks in.

Anyway, I don't doubt that Oblivion will sell well and that Bethesda won't lose any money on publishing. The point is the announcement is as full of shit as any other Bethesda's PR stuff, designed to mislead and hype the non-existent yet sales.

 

[Kuato]

They also said that whole 1.7 million units shipped thing in a press release. That'saround $20 or so per unit sold for Bethesda. So, we're talking $34 million bucks in the first few weeks.

Actually, we are not talking about 34 mil. We are talking about a shitload of copies shipped to stores to be sold, which may or may not be sold in the first few weeks or at all.

who really knows if they actually shipped them to a store they could of just shipped them from one warehouse to another for all we know the games might not even exist. Take Two is notorious for faking numbers. Obviously one way or another the statement was released to mislead uninformed consumers

 

[Jaesun]

Actually, we are. Shipped = Bethesda received money. As Saint said, $20 would be about their share for being both publisher and developer and 1.7 Million units don't get shipped anywhere without someone receiving money for them.

Not claiming to be an expert, but who pays for those copies? The store chains? Unlikely. As far as I know, publishers produce a certain number of copies, based on expectations, and ship them to stores to be sold. Stores sell copies and give the money to the publisher, pocketing the markup. The publisher pays the developer (same company in this case). That's a positive scenario. A negative scenario is when stores fail to sell the number of copies that's been shipped (see FOBOS for examples) to them, in which case those copies are either shipped back to the publisher or hit the bargain bin (if that's what the publisher wants). That's the strength of publishers - being able to print and ship a shitload of copies, and the risk, which explains many losses and inability to recover the investments (see Atari for more details)

I'm a buyer for a retail store but I do not however specifically buy Video Games. Basically any and all amount of Items we purchase from the Vendor is NEVER returnable at all. Period. We pay the vendor for the full amount of items shipped to us. Anything we buy is property we now own and are liable for. If I don't sell all the items I have bought we are stuck with them, and then we usually lower the cost of the item and sell them on a "Clearance Sale" when we have not sold enough of an item. That is basically how all retail stores work.

I am curious if however Items bought from a Publisher is different. Which I highly doubt. If someone at the Codex is specifically a Buyer from Publishers, I'd love to hear the details.

 

[Rat Keeng]

No I'm sure that's how most retail stores work, but it might be that the bigger chains of gaming stores have particular arrangements with publishers, though I wouldn't know.

But whether or not 1.7 mil is actual or projected sales, I don't doubt that amount, seems quite likely that a game of Oblee's magnitude would sell a couple million copies. As for Bethesda's profits, you also need to factor in their sale of <s>useless gimmicks</s> official mods to the endless line of spineless punters, who must have them all even though they keep getting burned.

"Ok, so I bought Horse Armor, it was disappointing to say the least, I'll never buy any of their mods again..."
"Ok, so I bought the Orrery, but I wanted to see if it was better. It wasn't, and I'll never buy any of their mods again..."
"Ok, so I bought Unicorn Armor..."