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Why all the NWN 2 hate?

Korron

Cipher
Patron
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Messages
288
Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Why not just play community content straightaway? Or MotB?

A sick compulsion is honestly why. Gotta put another notch on my belt.

If you guys want to see a truly awful campaign in the forgotten realms setting play ruins of myth drannor if you haven't already. That abortion makes nwn2 seem like the ambrosia of the gods.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2006
Messages
1,246
On the technical side of things, I found the long, frequent loading times a lot more annoying than the camera. But the reason I stopped playing the OC and never went back is just that I found it uninteresting in most respects.
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
A sick compulsion is honestly why. Gotta put another notch on my belt.

If you guys want to see a truly awful campaign in the forgotten realms setting play ruins of myth drannor if you haven't already. That abortion makes nwn2 seem like the ambrosia of the gods.
Well, let's not jump from kinda bad to seriously shit, here!

Yeah, I actually bought that. Wow! 3ed! In 3D! Awesome!
 

Azeot

Arbiter
Joined
Dec 4, 2013
Messages
179
Location
Trieste
I find the combat ok-ish actually. I really liked the variety of spells, for instance.
But the camera is a nightmare, as is controlling your group. The engine was also a letdown, at least for the modding - online community.
The story could have been cool, but it has so many fake choices that, honestly, it made me quit on my second playthrough.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,044
Why all the NWN2 hate?
It kinda sucked?

http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=147

Sawyer said:
Despite having a large amount of design documentation, I didn't feel I had a clear picture of how we were going to get to a finished game. Arguably of more importance, the game didn't feel fun. There's a lot of abstraction in D&D RPGs, so it's never really going to feel "viscerally" fun, but the controls and interface were frustrating. Of course, the framerate was also very low and that was a barrier to understanding other underlying problems (e.g. companion behavior).
...

Beware those who come bearing high-minded ideals of what they would do in retrospect. But, since you asked...

In terms of designing the OC, I would have gone for something a lot more open-ended, more about exploration and optional content/companions than critical path game length. I also think I would have asked for engineering to focus on revising game logic roadblocks that prevent modders from extending the ruleset. For example, revising the custom spell list data. Revisions to the resource system and the addition of a manager also would have helped a lot.

And though I know it would have resulted in a lot of resistance and probably less attention from the media, I would have pushed back as much as possible against replacing the renderer. I just don't think we had the time to do it completely and well. It also really screwed up all of our GUI code and changed all of the art asset pipelines throughout production.

But again, this is all in retrospect.
...

I think the game as released is a high 7, low 8 title. To be honest, the major issues are due to a lack of polish. There's certainly a lot of stuff in the game, but none of it really looks or feels great. At best, the controls and features feel good, at worst they feel terrible.

For example, the camera. Programming got the camera in and fixed a number of its glaring problems, but for all the various camera modes you could run in, it was hard to find one that felt good. The toolset is also an appropriate example: highly functional, very powerful, not enjoyable or fast to use for many tasks.

The biggest problems during development were an unrealistic scope and a lack of focus on quality/fun from the beginning. It's arguable that the former resulted in the latter. With D&D games, it's easy to become consumed by the idea of adding every feat, class, and race you can find in various books.
 

Scroo

Female Quota Staff
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Too far away from the sea
Codex 2014 Codex Year of the Donut Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
Fuck, I rather play through all of Hommlett in ToEE because at least it's pretty.

I like NWN 2 and never played any of the expansions so far. I also like Hommlett. And NWN 1 OC, which I also never played any expansions from.

CN2hCB6.jpg


:smug:
 

Shannow

Waster of Time
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,386
Location
Finnegan's Wake
Strange. Where are all the Trial and Ammon fanboys?
Have all those discussion perhaps convinced some people after all? Come on, codex, step up or I'll regain some respect for humanity. Can't have that. What kind of misanthrope would I be?

Anyway, most stuff has been mentioned, just my 2 cents:
Forgettable story about some sword up your ass.
Forced companions that range from annoying to plain bad. (Sand being the sole exception, imo.)
A bad engine that's simply not suited to party-play.
Boring encounters/combat.
Ridiculously bad spell fx and camera.
D&D in a non-TB game.
Rotten AI.
Severe bugs.

I still think the game's ok for one playthrough and the expansions also bring something new to the table. (Unfortunately not all good, but still.)

Ruins of Myth Drannor could have been a good dungeon crawler if they'd not completely butchered character development (and the PC breaking bugs and repetitive encounters/enemies). But its gameplay was head and shoulders above NWN2's.
 
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
1,387
Location
Australia
Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I'm currently doing a run of it. This will be the first time I finish it. I bought it when it was first released but decided to wait for the final version because of bugginess.

I'm up to Neverwinter and so far it's a mixed bag for me.

I plan on making a NWN1 OC vs NWN2 OC thread to finish the comparison I started in a previous thread once I've completed this run.
 

FeelTheRads

Arcane
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
13,716
I think the game as released is a high 7, low 8 title.

Ohoho. Yes, if we're using the modern rating standard where 7 means "shit".

P.S. New Vegas is also a low 8 according to Metacritic. :troll:
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Staff Member
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Jan 28, 2011
Messages
99,999
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Bad reasons to dislike NWN2: The camera (get over it), "generic plot" (play until Act 2), trash mobs (everybody in this forum has seen far worse)

Good reasons to dislike NWN2: Linearity, poor pacing, wonky controls and unsatisfying combat "feel"
 

Angthoron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2007
Messages
13,056
Bad reasons to dislike NWN2: The camera (get over it)
How about no. I'll be interacting with the world with this thing for several hours, I'd appreciate a lack of sea sickness and carpal tunnel syndrom.
"generic plot" (play until Act 2)
It didn't turn particularly stellar in Act 2 either, just... less banal.
trash mobs (everybody in this forum has seen far worse)
So filler combat is okay since when? I shouldn't dislike a game for actively wasting my time? Okay.

Good reasons to dislike NWN2: Linearity
Plenty of games in Codex Top 70 are linear. Awful reason to dislike it.
poor pacing
This is a complaint only valid in sex.
wonky controls and unsatisfying combat "feel"
Get over it, it's same as camera.

point being, it's kinda strange to divide these to good and bad reasons
 

Seaking4

Learned
Joined
Sep 4, 2014
Messages
362
NWN2 OC is horribly boring but I actually do think it has one memorable/fun fight. The one before the fight with the King of Shadows where you need to take on 3 of the Shadow Reavers.

Act 2 isn't good, it just feels good because it comes after Act 1.
 

Dr Skeleton

Arcane
Joined
Nov 9, 2014
Messages
851
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
- Too much boring filler content. The prologue and first act are especially painful, but it doesn't get much better after that. There are some nice parts, but they're few and far between.
- Too linear.
- Most companions are cliche and/or annoying. The fact that you are often forced to have them with you doesn't help.
- Camera. I played it after it was patched to hell and I still hated the camera.
- Clusterfuck combat.
 

Eyestabber

Arcane
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Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
4,733
Location
HUEland
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Bad reasons to dislike NWN2: The camera (get over it), "generic plot" (play until Act 2), trash mobs (everybody in this forum has seen far worse)

Good reasons to dislike NWN2: Linearity, poor pacing, wonky controls and unsatisfying combat "feel"

That's what I was looking for, sort of.

My thoughts:

- Camera and UI can be easily modded, so that's not a valid complaint.

- Plot is above average.

- Slow paced start can also be said about BG, IWD and Fallout 2. Dem double standards...

- Linearity doesn't bother me. It sure as hell isn't a positive aspect, but I don't think linearity is such a big deal.

- The game is pretty mod friendly, with a lot of interesting community content. Kaedrin PrC pack alone is enough to justify a new run (either OC or MotB).

- Turning Khelgar into a Monk is the definition of "trash choice". He is an awesome fighter, no need to fix what ain't broken. And YES, you can finish his personal quest w/o turning him into a shitty monk.
 
Self-Ejected

IncendiaryDevice

Self-Ejected
Village Idiot
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
7,407
It's certainly a very far cry from the unmitigated disaster of epic proportions that was the NWN1 OC, so I was really surprised to see that thread which even suggested a comparison between the two.

NWN 1 OC wasn't an unmitigated disaster of epic proportions though - unless you were an emotionally butthurt Bioware BG2 fan.

If NWN 1 had been made with any other publisher's name tag on it then we'd all be sitting here saying it was an ok hack&slash (well, people who don't mind hack&slash would be). NWN 2 on the other hand was made with another publisher's tag and most everyone still thinks it's a shit game.
 

Greatness

Cipher
Joined
Mar 17, 2007
Messages
288
That's what I was looking for, sort of.
My thoughts:
- Camera and UI can be easily modded, so that's not a valid complaint.
- Plot is above average.
- Slow paced start can also be said about BG, IWD and Fallout 2. Dem double standards...
- Linearity doesn't bother me. It sure as hell isn't a positive aspect, but I don't think linearity is such a big deal.
- The game is pretty mod friendly, with a lot of interesting community content. Kaedrin PrC pack alone is enough to justify a new run (either OC or MotB).
- Turning Khelgar into a Monk is the definition of "trash choice". He is an awesome fighter, no need to fix what ain't broken. And YES, you can finish his personal quest w/o turning him into a shitty monk.

The plot was nowhere near passable and the opening is actually the worst I've ever seen. Kaedrin's is worth replaying the character creator, but not the game. The OC lacks any semblance of the challenge (or fun) that is required for making trying different builds appealing.
 

Gozma

Arcane
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Messages
2,951
9 parts mindless RTwP filler to 1 part mediocre fantasy dialog tree game

like the most discriminating RPG fans I can only take up to a 5:1 filler:mediocrity ratio before I retch
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
34,586
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
NWN 1 OC wasn't an unmitigated disaster of epic proportions though - unless you were an emotionally butthurt Bioware BG2 fan.

If NWN 1 had been made with any other publisher's name tag on it then we'd all be sitting here saying it was an ok hack&slash (well, people who don't mind hack&slash would be). NWN 2 on the other hand was made with another publisher's tag and most everyone still thinks it's a shit game.

No, NWN1 OC is bland and boring and has no redeemable features. It's Russian shovelware levels of bad.
 

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