Why are most indie games so dumb-looking/sounding?

[Humanity has risen!]

http://www.nowgamer.com/features/100256 ... games.html

I'm as tired of the run-of-the-mill console games as the next guy, but it's stuff like that which makes it hard for me to spend more serious time on indie games. As it seems to mostly be ego trips for 1-2 guys, they are always replete with fourth-wall breaking humor, weird cartoon character design, whimsical design and look-and-feel, and dumb attention-grabbing gimmicks. It's not that I'm against such things, but it's often taken to such an extreme that you would be semi-embarrassed to be caught playing it, and ultimately I like a bit of serious and professionalism to the whole thing, rather than be exposed to the creator's fratboy sensibilities.

Was it always this way with indie game creators, or is it just that before, graphic rendering capabilities were so limited that it didn't allow the expression of the creators' vanity?

 

[DakaSha]

lulz bioware and bethseda rpg's are shit so all rpg's are shit lulz

There are good indie games and there are bad indie games. stop bitching and play the good ones (and im answering yes, its new technology that allows every faggot including me to make games. Prob less to do with graphics capabilities and more to do with the ease of writing games in general.. at least relative to 15 years ago)

 

[DakaSha]

Actually.. Its prob the fact that there are digital distribution platforms. People make some stupid shit knowing that retards will buy it. It takes a skilled programmer literally hours to finish some of the shit you linked. If he can get 100 sales he wins. He knows his game is shit

 

[shihonage]

It's easy to make stupid shit.

It's hard to make simplistic-looking shit which has actual things like level design, difficulty curve, etc.

So they just do the former.

 

[curry]

ask Brian

 

[Humanity has risen!]

I'm interested in the comparison between indie games today, and the C64/Atari ST/Amiga scene of the eighties and early nineties where there also was a big homebrew scene. As a Canadian I was never exposed to this at all. I'm sure that then a good 98% of these games were also garbage just like today, but at least probably not ego-driven garbage, or games so odd that only their creators could be interested in it.

Was it that then space was more limited, graphics were more limited and games much harder to program?

Let's take a popular game of today, Dungeons of Dredmor. I'm not against playing a rogue-like with good mechanics, however I don't want a game where everything is a meta joke, or other over the top attempt by the creator to show us how witty he is and how many pop-culture references he knows.

I don't think games have ever been this "meta". Is it just a reflect of how ego-driven people are, in this Facebook generation where people are spoiled by their parents, more self-centered than ever and seek (and receive) validation for every mundane thing they do?

 

[Excidium]

Silliness and pop culture references I think are due to the success of webcomics and their style of humor.

Overall mediocrity is because of how you can sell anything on the internet, like it was mentioned.

 

[shihonage]

I see it as an attempt to connect to the widest possible audience to get the largest possible $$. The Zyngifying.

I have trouble believing that most of these games are result of unchained creation. The retro looks, the mandatory retro synth tunes... More like they're money projects, targeting specifically men's nostalgia for old games and the magnetizing effect that cute, colorful things have on women.

Plus, it's "hey we know this game looks outdated and resembles those retro games, so we'll have metaLOLZ!". A kind of an insecurity covered by self-deprecation. If you laugh at yourself first, others may not laugh at you.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Could I make money on such projects too?

 

[Bruticis]

Could I make money on such projects too?

Can you program C#? Can you delve into the mind of a 14 year old ADD mentally challenged child? If you answered yes to both questions, you too can profit in the XBLIG market.

 

[MetalCraze]

Indie games suck it's nothing new.

Many retards here just support them because in their minds liking indie games means opposing mainstream despite them playing every single AAA game that's coming out.

But it's impossible to find as much shit in mainstream as in indie gaming.


In other words - fuck indies, fuck AAAs, support good developers.

 

[Jaesun]

Indie games suck it's nothing new.

You really are the biggest dumbfuck on the Codex.

 

[Bruticis]

Hey everyone, look at me!!! Look what I can do! Can you see me guys, can you?

Yes, you have our attention.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Indie games suck it's nothing new.

You really are the biggest dumbfuck on the Codex.

So, list the ones that don't.

 

[Redlands]

In this topic we learn whether your budget is $10 or $10 million you can still make a piece of shit game. Whoop-de-fucking-doo.

 

[DakaSha]

Indie games suck it's nothing new.

You really are the biggest dumbfuck on the Codex.

So, list the ones that don't.

List would be way to long.
First one that springs to mind though: AI WAR (As always)

And freeware is also indie btw.. its developed under the same circumstances and me and you both know there is shitloads of good freeware titles.
But if you want to argue that indie games have to appeal to an audience and are therefore separate from freeware I still believe there are shitloads of good titles. Skyway is just a dumbfuck as everybody knows.

In other words - fuck indies, fuck AAAs, support good developers.

You probably are incapable of finding the problem in this statement.

Many retards here just support them because in their minds liking indie games means opposing mainstream despite them playing every single AAA game that's coming out.

I think 'many here' actually pirate from indie developers just as much as they do from AAA devs. I sure as fuck do (Although there are a few choice indie devs i give my money to because i seriously believe they deserve it)

 

[DakaSha]

In this topic we learn whether your budget is $10 or $10 million you can still make a piece of shit game. Whoop-de-fucking-doo.

 

[Wunderpurps]

Indie games suck it's nothing new.

You really are the biggest dumbfuck on the Codex.

So, list the ones that don't.

If you limit things to games that are actually out, aka reality, then you have nothing at all.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

The difference is that when the barrier of entry is low to non-existent, quality control often is low to non-existent as well, and the theme of games becomes dubious. Sure there are quite a few gems, but they're drowning in a sea of forgettable match-3 games, RPG maker games with meta jokes, and retro cartoon platformers. Just like on Iphone, the indie scene is absolutely flooded with these, and the few that don't usually aren't thematically different enough to remain in people's minds, which is probably was Awor means.

What Skyway surely meant is that when a lot of money and manpower was invested in a game, although the product can still be mediocre, at least the quality control and polish is almost always much better. What matters ultimately is talent and the ability of a developer to make good on his claims, no matter the size of the development studio.

 

[convivialist]

Y'all are familiar with Sturgeon's Law, right? So what's the point of talking about "most" of anything? Are we really saying that most indie games are shit, which is an empty, irrelevant statement, or are we implying that all indie games are shit? The answer to that question determines whether or not the bulk of the comments in this thread are shit themselves.

I recently skimmed the list of all 568 entries to the 2012 Independent Games Festival. Obviously I skimmed over many of them. And okay, even when it comes to the ones that look good, most of them aren't released yet (aren't even finished yet? I don't know the rules of IGF so I don't know if people can enter works in progress.) And yeah, even the ones that do get finished will amount to like an hour of gameplay. This is the reality of the fact that these games are made by dedicated amateurs who aren't getting paid to work full time on this stuff.

But overall, I was overwhelmed by a sense of potential. Most of the indie games being made have their heart in the right place: these are people who grew up playing games, have a great deal of affection and nostalgia for their favorite games, and are trying to make the kind of games they themselves would want to play. A major theme, if you look at the indie games being made right now, seems to be nostalgia for a golden age of gaming, which ought to be congenial to people who constantly bitch about "graphics whores" and shit like that.

The Codex is full of people who seem to basically believe that most good games were made decades ago, that just about any mainstream, big-budget game can be written off before it's even played due to the overwhelming consistency of the decline. But then when a bunch of gamers try to make games like the ones they love from the '80s and '90s, the Codex shits all over that too?

 

[DakaSha]

well... just like not all indie games are shit not all kodexians are shit

 

[Wunderpurps]

Y'all are familiar with Sturgeon's Law, right? So what's the point of talking about "most" of anything? Are we really saying that most indie games are shit, which is an empty, irrelevant statement, or are we implying that all indie games are shit? The answer to that question determines whether or not the bulk of the comments in this thread are shit themselves.

I recently skimmed the list of all 568 entries to the 2012 Independent Games Festival. Obviously I skimmed over many of them. And okay, even when it comes to the ones that look good, most of them aren't released yet (aren't even finished yet? I don't know the rules of IGF so I don't know if people can enter works in progress.) And yeah, even the ones that do get finished will amount to like an hour of gameplay. This is the reality of the fact that these games are made by dedicated amateurs who aren't getting paid to work full time on this stuff.

But overall, I was overwhelmed by a sense of potential. Most of the indie games being made have their heart in the right place: these are people who grew up playing games, have a great deal of affection and nostalgia for their favorite games, and are trying to make the kind of games they themselves would want to play. A major theme, if you look at the indie games being made right now, seems to be nostalgia for a golden age of gaming, which ought to be congenial to people who constantly bitch about "graphics whores" and shit like that.

The Codex is full of people who seem to basically believe that most good games were made decades ago, that just about any mainstream, big-budget game can be written off before it's even played due to the overwhelming consistency of the decline. But then when a bunch of gamers try to make games like the ones they love from the '80s and '90s, the Codex shits all over that too?

Do they all look and sound like shit? There's a distinction here, smart guy.

And yes, they all look and sound like shit if you stick to the RPG genre. This means games that have actually been released so don't tell me The Fall is so awesome looking or AoD gonna be the most best game ever.

Do they all look and sound like shit if you widen it to any type of game? Not so much there's more gems amongst the sea of rubbish, but there's still an awful lot of shit and just 1 or 2 games I actually played and liked.

 

[shihonage]

The Codex is full of people who seem to basically believe that most good games were made decades ago, that just about any mainstream, big-budget game can be written off before it's even played due to the overwhelming consistency of the decline

It's called research.

But then when a bunch of gamers try to make games like the ones they love from the '80s and '90s, the Codex shits all over that too?

I've never seen this happen.

Mediocre troll, 2/10

 

[DakaSha]

Y'all are familiar with Sturgeon's Law, right? So what's the point of talking about "most" of anything? Are we really saying that most indie games are shit, which is an empty, irrelevant statement, or are we implying that all indie games are shit? The answer to that question determines whether or not the bulk of the comments in this thread are shit themselves.

I recently skimmed the list of all 568 entries to the 2012 Independent Games Festival. Obviously I skimmed over many of them. And okay, even when it comes to the ones that look good, most of them aren't released yet (aren't even finished yet? I don't know the rules of IGF so I don't know if people can enter works in progress.) And yeah, even the ones that do get finished will amount to like an hour of gameplay. This is the reality of the fact that these games are made by dedicated amateurs who aren't getting paid to work full time on this stuff.

But overall, I was overwhelmed by a sense of potential. Most of the indie games being made have their heart in the right place: these are people who grew up playing games, have a great deal of affection and nostalgia for their favorite games, and are trying to make the kind of games they themselves would want to play. A major theme, if you look at the indie games being made right now, seems to be nostalgia for a golden age of gaming, which ought to be congenial to people who constantly bitch about "graphics whores" and shit like that.

The Codex is full of people who seem to basically believe that most good games were made decades ago, that just about any mainstream, big-budget game can be written off before it's even played due to the overwhelming consistency of the decline. But then when a bunch of gamers try to make games like the ones they love from the '80s and '90s, the Codex shits all over that too?

Do they all look and sound like shit? There's a distinction here, smart guy.

And yes, they all look and sound like shit if you stick to the RPG genre. This means games that have actually been released so don't tell me The Fall is so awesome looking or AoD gonna be the most best game ever.

Do they all look and sound like shit if you widen it to any type of game? Not so much there's more gems amongst the sea of rubbish, but there's still an awful lot of shit and just 1 or 2 games I actually played and liked.

I keep hearing this here but the thing is its the exact same thing with non indie games.. The only differences are:

a) You DO get some of that shovelware shit.. this is not an issue with indie development for the most part but an economy thing

b) Non indies have huge budgets so should be making better games. They dont.

One thing to keep in mind is that there are differences between the genres. I have not played any decent indie rpg's besides (freeware) roguelikes but i have played amazing strategy games and puzzle games (although i dont like puzzle games they exist and count)

 

[Fowyr]

Prelude of Darkness was awesome.
Most of Spiderweb's games are good.
Fuck, even Eschalon was pretty good and Necrotech passable.

END OF RHINE.