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Why did both PS:T and MotB not sell?

Saint_Proverbius

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Wyrmlord said:
Well, Torment sold enough to make a decent profit, but not nearly as much as other similiar games released around the same time.

It has to do with profit margin. PS:T took a longer time to make than IWD did and both sold about the same amount of copies. So, PS:T had less of a profit margin than IWD, so we got IWD2 rather than PS:T2. IWD was shat out in five months. I can't remember how long PS:T took to make.
 

psycojester

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I think that the boxart has a lot to blame for PS:T, if you enjoyed BG and didn't know what PS:T was in the first place

250px-Planescape-torment-box.jpg


Is not going to encourage you to pick it up. Hell it was pure chance the first time that i played it, i'd always seen the blue zombie against a garish orange background and assumed that it was some stupid FPS that was going to try and sell me the ETREMEZUH fight your way out of hell with your devil powers! angle.

If it was me i would have gone with The Lady of Pains face set against a backdrop of the model of the plains.
 

Sir_Brennus

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Nael said:
Binary said:
As far as I remember, Germany is the gaming country in Europe, and can most often be representative of Europe sales.

Wrong. Read and learn.

1. My numbers are more up-to-date than yours.

2. IT IS ABOUT PC games, not PSX, PS2, XBox, 360, PS3, Gamecube, Wii stuff. Your numbers are about Video-games in total - not PC games!

3. read the fucking links in my post!
 
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I never heard anything about PS:T, I just bought it randomly because I liked the cover. Best random buy of my life.

If these games have not sold well, it's because ordinary people only buy shit. They eat bad bread, drink bad beer, don't know shit about shit and play stupid, bad games.
 

mjorkerina

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Sir_Brennus said:
BIU = German Interest group for Interactive Entertainment said:
Units sold of PCgames 2006: 24,3 Million

Total volume of games sold (PC and console) in 2007: 1.4 Billion Euros (= 2.2 Billion USD)

How many of those units sold are those stupid casual games unheard of by actual gamers (you wouldn't believe what could be found in a supermarket. My eyes are always bleeding when i'm doing small shopping at one.), and things like Sims and its expansions ? I still have my stance on the fact that Germany is the gayfaggot country of Europe.

One of your links is saying :

Zylom and RealArcade provide European partners with hundreds of casual game titles with broad appeal, ease of gameplay, local language game titles, and exceptional value for their customers."
The renewed partnership with RTL.de will focus on integrating Zylom games into its Internet portal;

What the hell is that ? nothing a decent gamer would ever have touched.

Germany is not the country where EA, Activision, Atari and all the other actual gaming giants are getting the most from. Unless you have anything convincing that could compare numbers from them and not generic numbers that includes everything and the shittiest things start up are coming up and selling at clueless fucktards i'm not going to buy it.
 

Binary

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Sir_Brennus said:
Nael said:
Binary said:
As far as I remember, Germany is the gaming country in Europe, and can most often be representative of Europe sales.

Wrong. Read and learn.

1. My numbers are more up-to-date than yours.

2. IT IS ABOUT PC games, not PSX, PS2, XBox, 360, PS3, Gamecube, Wii stuff. Your numbers are about Video-games in total - not PC games!

3. read the fucking links in my post!

Also Nael, I said "gaming country" not "country with most sales" which isn't usually the same thing.
 

Sir_Brennus

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Okay, slowly - so you can grasp the context:

Den vorliegenden Daten zufolge, wurden 2007 insgesamt 23,1 Millionen (2006: 24,3 Millionen) PC-Spiele verkauft zu einem Durchschnittspreis von 19,80 Euro. Die gesamten Umsätze summieren sich auf 458 Millionen Euro.

Translation
According to the present data, in 2007 23,1 Mio games (2006: 24,3 Mio)PC games were sold at an average price of 19,80 Euros. The whole volume sums up to 458 Million Euros.

Casual games are mostly sold for prices below 5 Euros. You may calculate the weight of those games in the average price for yourself. Thinking of that you may be unable to do that, sorry.
 

someone else

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Demnogonis Saastuttaja said:
If these games have not sold well, it's because ordinary people only buy shit. They eat bad bread, drink bad beer, don't know shit about shit and play stupid, bad games.
So is the answer: "Its the ordinary people's faul!t", "Its the Germans fault!" or "its the ordinary bad beer drinking Germans fault!"

Personally I blame the French Elite.
 

Sir_Brennus

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Mighty Mouse said:
Demnogonis Saastuttaja said:
If these games have not sold well, it's because ordinary people only buy shit. They eat bad bread, drink bad beer, don't know shit about shit and play stupid, bad games.
So is the answer: "Its the ordinary people's faul!t", "Its the Germans fault!" or "its the ordinary bad beer drinking Germans fault!"

Personally I blame the French Elite.

QFT!
 

DraQ

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I blame mostly lack or misdirected hype, only sometimes supplemented with game being too innovative and gameplay issues.

Weirdeness combined with odd mechanics failed to kill Soul Reaver, odd setting didn't hamper Morrowind's popularity, hell even current bethesduh tried to inject some weirdness into Oblivious with the SI expansion.

I guess that PS:T might have scared some people with dialogue abundance, but other than that I blame the marketing.

True, dumb people tend to buy dumb games, but proper marketing can can sell the retarded public shit as chocolate, repeatedly.
 
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Mighty Mouse said:
Demnogonis Saastuttaja said:
If these games have not sold well, it's because ordinary people only buy shit. They eat bad bread, drink bad beer, don't know shit about shit and play stupid, bad games.
So is the answer: "Its the ordinary people's faul!t", "Its the Germans fault!" or "its the ordinary bad beer drinking Germans fault!"

Personally I blame the French Elite.

I suppose it depends on what you count as ordinary people. Oblivion fans are ordinary enough for me.

Though for MoTB, it might also be because NWN2 was less than stellar.
 

Annonchinil

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There were a lot of problems with NWN2, so I would not expect an expansion to sell all that well.
 
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No shit, it wasobsidian who madeit. Seriously I have no idea whats wrong with the fucktards,all of whome came from Balck Isle/Interplay and formed troika and obsidian. They have made more buggier games than the rest of the industry combined.
 
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Brave Diplomat said:
No shit, it wasobsidian who madeit. Seriously I have no idea whats wrong with the fucktards,all of whome came from Balck Isle/Interplay and formed troika and obsidian. They have made more buggier games than the rest of the industry combined.
In-browser spell-checker - check it out.
 
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Sir_Brennus

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Dementia Praecox said:
Sir_Brennus said:
Dementia Praecox said:
Dementia Praecox said:
END OF THREAD, GOD DAMNIT.
Edit: Allright I'll leave this thread alone.

And yet again you proved yourself an idiot.
At least I'm not proving it with every single post I make.

Edit:

Also:
Dementia Praecox said:
Dementia Praecox said:
END OF THREAD, GOD DAMNIT.

THXDP: "The audience is not listening"

P.S.: Are you an alt of TalesFromTheCrypt? That was the last guy on the Codex I remember that posted so many unfunny lulz.
 

Saxon1974

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Jasede said:
Because people are stupid.

Wait, already has been said.

Well said Jasede. People are sheeps and are lead around by the mainstream media hype.

So in this case I think its a case of #6 (Lack of hype) and people being stupid.
 

Ananke

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Weirdeness combined with odd mechanics failed to kill Soul Reaver
Well, the last Legacy of Kain game dates from 2003, the story of the series is and will probably remain unfinished, and meanwhile I have no idea what number the Tomb Raiders are up to. Although that may equally be a side effect of the sequels' heavy focus on the story. Kind of like Torment, actually.

I'm currently replaying Torment, to see how the past several years of my life have affected my perception of the game; and, seeing it with fresh eyes, I think that the main reason why it didn't sell is simply that it can be summed up as -- demanding.

I think it's less that 'people are dumb', it's more that - that game doesn't make itself easy to love, either. There's the art, which can be called, 'possessed of a unique style' or can be called, 'fugly'. There's the verbosity: just as, let's say, LotR, it delivers at the same time a world and a story; and it requires immersion in the world and understanding of the world to play the game well (so no playing, let's say, 15 minutes in between breakfast and going to school/work). You can, technically, avoid all those lengthy explanations about the nature of the Planes and how they affect/are affected by the nature of the man - except that no, really, you can't.

The LotR comparison is here because I've read people write they haven't read LotR because "the action moves at snail's pace, and it's far too heavy on the background detail". In other words, 'we love what we know already. We don't need any world-building details, thank you very much.'

I've also read people write that a 30-hour game is long.

So, in a word, Torment's a game which requires one's care, time and attention. A willingness to accept a lot of facts/ideas and really existing faults, e.g. the graphics. And what it offers in return - the story - may not be enough of a payoff for everyone. It's just as with everything else: you may spend your precious free time creating a concordance for Finnegans Wake, or you may spend it mountaneering with friends and dog.

So far, I think, the matter's obvious. It's tough love, people like it the easy way, because they get enough tough love from their bosses and spouses...

...or not. IIRC, 10 years ago, gaming was mostly a teen-/young adult- targetted industry, wasn't it? And male-targetted industry, too; and men, overall, mature emotionally later. Torment is fantastic, because it really allows one to role-play; but at the same time, it requires that one role-play; just as it requires an investment of one's time, it requires an investment of one's emotion.

I think that it requires a horrid lot of empathy, actually. Read the text in Deionarra's sensory stone without any emotional investment; what do you think? She's emo (precisely!) and pathetic (the Practical Incarnation even thinks that). And so is the hero, who, let me remind you, bursts into tears once the sensation ends. There's no option not to do that. He just does. And if the hero's emo, then, by proxy, so's the player...

It's once you empathise with TNO that you can read the scene and feel the scene without thinking it's all ridiculous.

And so, the game demands involvement; and the protagonist isn't the easiest person to identify with, because that's not the fireball-hurling sorceress you'd love to be after watching Buffy; not unless you've made a serious error sometime earlier in your life, and regret it - and that's not your average teenager; they haven't made their errors yet.

So, to sum up the ramblings: I think that the easiest explanation is that the target was all wrong for the type of story. For the jaded 40-year-olds in their midlife crises, it would have been perfect - if they had known of it!
 

JarlFrank

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Ananke said:
And so, the game demands involvement; and the protagonist isn't the easiest person to identify with, because that's not the fireball-hurling sorceress you'd love to be after watching Buffy; not unless you've made a serious error sometime earlier in your life, and regret it - and that's not your average teenager; they haven't made their errors yet.

Meh, I actually was completely immersed and could identify myself well with TNO. Dunno why, but he really felt closer to me than any other hero in any other RPG. Maybe because of his wrong choice he once made and the shitty situation he's in. Maybe because you can customize his personality by different dialogue choices that change alignment. Maybe because I like philosophy and am a man who sometimes thinks through deeper things - the conversation with Ravel and with TTO in the end were two of the best gaming moments ever.

He's a character with whom I could identify a lot easier than with those boastful fuckasses you get to play in your standard Diablo clones. But that's just me, the mass of teenagers would probably prefer to play some über mage who doesn't regret any of the havoc he wreaked. "LULZ my character regrets what he did, what a pussy! He should be glad about his power!"
 

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