Why Do WRPGs Get Saddled with Crap Settings?

[Mogar]

So yeah, this'll be my first post. Usually, I'm content to just lurk, but I was ruminating on this subject and thought you might want to hear it out.

We can all agree that JRPGs, which is, in many ways a misnomer, suck ass. They're way to linear, their stories are often insipid, their characters are based on cliches and archetypes, you barely have any input into character building, and they require hours of tedious grinding. Now, admittedly, many WRPGs commit these sins, but its to a lesser degree, and they usually have one thing that makes up for it, putting them ahead of JRPGs. Gameplay. Even the suckage that is Oblivion has better gameplay then most JRPGs.

With all these in mind, you may ask yourself, why are JRPGs so popular. Well beyond the obvious reasons that people are idiots and the lack of real RPGs on the console, you have presentation. As far as presentation goes (art direction excluding character designs, setting, music, effects and graphics), JRPGs trump WRPGs, with a few rare exceptions such as Planescape and MotB.

I've noticed this difference for quite a while, but it became very apparent after watching a trailer for the upcoming Final Fantasy, and then watching a trailer for Dragon Age. Final Fantasy XIII had fantastic vistas, excellent music, and what looks to be an interesting premise. I found myself actually yearning to try it out, just to explore the world. Then I reminded myself that it was Final Fantasy, and no matter how cool the trailer, how idiosyncratic its art direction was, the game itself would probably suck. Then I watched the Dragon Age trailer, and was unimpressed, to say the least. It looked so generic, so utterly soulless. The world looked to be the Generic Fantasy Shit we've all grown to hate, the music, by (I assume to be) Inon Zur was the usual crap he's been churning out since Baldur's friggen Gate, and it seemed to be trying real hard to be epic, but failing all the while. Yawn...

It was basically this (concentrate on the setting, not the faggy characters):
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/43656.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/44896.html

versus this:
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/43599.html
http://www.gametrailers.com/player/36034.html

Now, if I didn't know anything about either the games or developers and I had to choose which one I'd want to have, I'd choose Final Fantasy. Yes, rage at me, but that's the truth. When I immerse myself in an RPG, I want the setting to be somewhat interesting.

So what I want to know is why. Why do JRPGs have such phenomenal settings while WRPGs get stuck with such mundane ones? Why can't we have the best of both worlds in modern WRPGs, like Planescape did ten years ago?

 

[Andhaira]

Well the way western rpg's rae made, its harder to incorporate stuff like mecha's, gun-swords, etc. See wetern rpg's try to have a choesive world history that makes sense, while jrpg's focus mor on the current story rather than world history. So n a wetern rpg they would have to find ways to explain in game why the world has guns and swords at the same time, to give a small example.

Also, traditional settings (elves/dwarves etc) seem to sell well. I personally prefer gritty settings, but sales are sales.

 

[Mogar]

Yeah, I get where your going. FF is devoted too much to the Rule of Cool. But just because you want to have a cohesive setting doesn't mean it has to be drab and lifeless. If you want proof that a fantastic, unique setting can be cohesive, I'll point you towards Planescape, Arcanum, or (in a way) Morrowind. If your going to have a game and call it fantasy, then make it fantastic.

And yes, the Dwarf, Elf thing is pretty tiresome.

 

[Lurkar]

I think it's somewhat off to claim it's a problem with all wRPGs. While there's no doubt that there's a hell of a lot of boring and cliche fantasy wRPGs out and coming out, it really is confined to a specific type. For all their flaws, both Mass Effect and Fallout 3 didn't go with Ye Olde Mideavel Europe. I'm not saying their settings were any less cliche, but they used different cliches, and quite frankly, with gaming being where it's at now, even a switch of cliches can make a large difference. Both jRPGs and wRPGs are very formulaic, but they're formulaic in different ways.

 

[Mogar]

Ye Olde Mideavel Europe, bleh. I'll take a retarded JRPG setting or any setting, really over that. Call me weird, but I love fantasy, and hate the Medieval European setting (mostly because its either dreary/static, or highly romanticized/idealized).

 

[Forest Dweller]

Well the way western rpg's rae made, its harder to incorporate stuff like mecha's, gun-swords, etc. See wetern rpg's try to have a choesive world history that makes sense, while jrpg's focus mor on the current story rather than world history. So n a wetern rpg they would have to find ways to explain in game why the world has guns and swords at the same time, to give a small example.

Yes, and that's exactly why jrpgs DON'T have better settings. They have good IDEAS in their settings, but the way it is all integrated it doesn't make sense. I'd take consisitency any day over "cool shit."

 

[Mogar]

Well the way western rpg's rae made, its harder to incorporate stuff like mecha's, gun-swords, etc. See wetern rpg's try to have a choesive world history that makes sense, while jrpg's focus mor on the current story rather than world history. So n a wetern rpg they would have to find ways to explain in game why the world has guns and swords at the same time, to give a small example.

Yes, and that's exactly why jrpgs DON'T have better settings. They have good IDEAS in their settings, but the way it is all integrated it doesn't make sense. I'd take consisitency any day over "cool shit."

Superficially, JRPGs beat WRPGs. Depth wise, WRPGs send their counterparts crying back to Japan. Being somewhat of an anime fan myself, though, I can put up with a bit more inconsistencies and whatnot. It bothers me, but not terribly, unless its glaringly retarded (as it is in 90% of JRPGs).

 

[Double Ogre]

JRPG

 

[Mogar]

/\ Nice. I loled as a few of my friend actually think JRPGs are deep and shit. Really, thinking more about it, most JRPGs fans are pretty superficial in their taste. Perhaps that's why JRPGs have cool settings with no depth. Having a highly creative art direction that kinda gets out of control also helps.

Oh, and I have to ask, why are they all Atlas fans. Everyone knows all the fantards flock to Square.

 

[mondblut]

I'll take generic fantasy over the senseless JPG shit settings anytime.

 

[Lurkar]

Oh, and I have to ask, why are they all Atlas fans. Everyone knows all the fantards flock to Square.

/v/ meme. His name is Fatlus.

 

[kris]

Jrpgs usually show quite some imagination as far as the world goes. Although I get the impression they usually fall into the same trappings if you look closer.

 

[BethesdaLove]

Jrpgs usually show quite some imagination as far as the world goes.

Do elaborate.

 

[Mogar]

Jrpgs usually show quite some imagination as far as the world goes.

Do elaborate.

Alright, so, here I go. I'll use Final Fantasy, being one of the games mentioned in my original post, as the example:

FFXIII:

FFXII:

FFIX:

Admit it. If they were coming out with a RPG that had a setting like any of the previous games shown and that had real C&C, nonlinear gameplay, and tactical, turn based combat, you'd all be salivating at the chance to play it. I know I would.

 

[Helton]

Holy shit is that an angel mecha constructed out of gothic castles?

 

[Mogar]

Holy shit is that an angel mecha constructed out of gothic castles?

Lol, it does looks like one, but it's actually Alexander, a giant monster thing that's the physical manifestation of Alexandria, or something like that. It rose up to protect the people of the city when that other monster, Bahamut, started reeking havoc. It was actually pretty cool, all in all.

 

[Lyric Suite]

That's not imaginative, that's just random as fuck.

 

[mondblut]

it's actually Alexander, a giant monster thing that's the physical manifestation of Alexandria, or something like that.

Japanese are so japanese.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

I'll take generic fantasy over the senseless JPG shit settings anytime.

....

 

[Mogar]

That's not imaginative, that's just random as fuck.

Actually, FFIX is kind of consistent in its setting, especially when compared to other FFs. Ludlum is the highly industrialized nation you see in the 1st, 2nd, and 4th pics. They get fucked up by the poorer, more magical Alexandria (3rd pic and 5th pics) because Alexandria figured out how to summon huge monsters with the help of a flop. It's all apart of said flop's plans so that his inter- dimensional buddies (who've screwed over their own planet) can move into the planet with very little resistance. The game has a very, I'd say, surreal late Renaissance (late 1500s to early 1600s) feel to it, as far as architecture, fashion, and the prominence of theatre in it. Hell, the main bad...thing (the flop) was a play-write, and the main character is an actor.

And yeah, before anyone asks, I played FFIX. I was ten, alright! Still, even if it was an FF, it still amazed me and acted as a gateway to much better things, like Fallout and Planescape. As such, it will always have a somewhat special place in my heart and I'll always remember it with nostalgia.

 

[Mogar]

it's actually Alexander, a giant monster thing that's the physical manifestation of Alexandria, or something like that.

Japanese are so japanese.

I always wondered why, with all the other giant monster in it, Godzilla wasn't around.

I'll take generic fantasy over the senseless JPG shit settings anytime.

....

Care to, elaborate? Because I can read it two ways. Either you're expressing your disapproval of the statement that generic fantasy shit beats a unique and wacky setting or showing that you concur with mondblut that a tried and true setting with more depth is better then a retarded JRPG setting.

 

[Luzur]

last Final Fantasy game i played was FF3 on SNES. then it was all weird hairstyle and mecha cities or flying larvae/living zeppelins.

 

[Azarkon]

Any setting done over and over again becomes stale.

The reason JRPG settings seem refreshing to you, compared to WRPG settings is, get this, because you live in the West.

FF games (all 13+ of them) have two settings that they switch between & sometimes mix. It's either "medieval fairy fantasy" or "high-tech fantasy hybrid." The world concept & art style are drawn straight out of a general "Asian pop fantasy" base that is as cliche in Asia as elf-and-dwarf fantasy is cliche in the West. Most Asian RPGs follow this convention, which is why they practically all look the same.

This is not to say there aren't other, more unique settings in Asia. But the same is true of the West. Just as you wouldn't hold up elf-and-dwarf fantasy as the epitome of Western inventiveness, you shouldn't do it for the FF series, because that has practically the same function in its respective sphere.

Hell, Squaresoft practically invented the JRPG archetype.

 

[kris]

Jrpgs usually show quite some imagination as far as the world goes.

Do elaborate.

Not going into reasons, but they often play around with geography and most other established things. My JRPG experience is quite limited, but you just need to see the video up there to see some nice ways to show different kind of nature. It looks quite alien. They are never afraid to show alien. With that in mind they also throw out new kinds of creatures and monsters in a way WRPG don't. It could of course be argued that many of those are pure shit.

Of course they leave a lot of room to do these things since most JRPGs I seen have been huge in scope (you often traverse the world, while in WRPG is in a limited area). What gets boring is how they always want to outdo each other with having "bigger, better and more cool".

I suspect the Japanese try to outdo each other with the most cool and edge concepts...
In the western world they seemingly try to conform as much as they possible can...

 

[Balor]

Hey! Play IcePick Lodge games. (Pathologic, Tension).
While I'm not all for 'Russia is THE SPIRITUAL shit!!1', being a buffer zone between east and west sometimes manifests in things that take the best from both worlds - namely bizzare settings, yet highly nonlinear gameplay and C&C.

There is an issue of taking the worst of the both worlds, but hey - you cannot have everything.

In case you missed, here is a set of articles about pathologic (contains severe spoilers, though):
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/04 ... -the-body/

And Tension (or Turgor):

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2009/01 ... es-typrop/