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Why isn't HoMM 4 getting any love?

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
I love it because there's a really strong focus on your hero. It's almost an RPG. You need several missions to completely build up your character and, no matter which skill you choose, you will become distinctively more powerful.

Love the graphics as well because it is one of the very, very few games with realistically designed units and, something which shouldn't go unnoticed, real armor with no shoulder pads! It looks better than HoMM 5, King's Bounty or any other 3D Strategy/RPG as they always turn out having ridiculous human models with huge arms and retarded looking armor.

Text. There's a lot of it if you play the campaign. Whenever you advance, you're rewarded with enjoyable bits of the story's progression. Combined with the graphics, the game has a very pleasant atmosphere to it devoid of idiotic cut scenes that try to look "badass".

In the intro there are 2 heroes from HoMM 3 fighting. You would expect acrobatics, fireballing and hot elves in bikini armor. Nope, they just clash their swords together which causes an apocalypse. There's also an angel shown doing surprisingly non "badass" things; he's simply rescuing some farm girl who becomes a a ruler in the new world. Here's the Youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Sy7qkk ... re=related

heroesiv_041002_035_640w.jpg
 

Helton

Arcane
Joined
Jan 29, 2007
Messages
6,789
Location
Starbase Delta
It is a cool game I always get it confused with Lords of Magic which I also enjoyed. One of them had the King Arthur campaign which I thought was pretty badass.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
29,010
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
I think most of the hate stems from the fact that it's such a huge departure from the other HoMM games before it.
 

Heresiarch

Prophet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,451
HoMM4 is a massive DECLINE compared to the older HoMMs. And it's REAL declines:

1. All heroes lost their unique background, and lost their fucking special abilities. Gone are their personalities and the only thing different between heroes is a fucking portrait. DECLINE!

2. Only 6 kind of castles, and each castle can have at most 5 different kind of creatures (which 2 are level 1!). So most of the time your army consist of only 3 to 4 kind of creatures, in which 2 are level 1 cannon fodders. DECLINE!

3. YOU CAN'T FUCKING UPGRADE CREATURES. DECLINE!

4. Because there are only 4 levels of creatures, the power gap between different levelled creatures are way too massive. Level 1 creatures even in great numbers can hardly scratch level 3 and can do next to nil to level 4's. While level 3 creatures can slaughter level 1 easily like wholesale. That's sooo against the spirit of HoMM, in older HoMM clever use of level 2~4 creatures can still beat level 7's. DECLINE!

5. Creature design is a complete mess and it's like laughing into the face of the old HoMM. For example, Vampires are so much more powerful compared to Venom Spawns so almost no one will use the latter. Similar problem with Champions VS Anges, Faerie Dragons VS Phoenix. Also, there's simply ridiculously few creatures to choose from: you've only imp, hellhound, venom spawn and devils to choose as demons. And for undead, there's only skeleton, ghost, vampire and bone dragons. Where's liches? Black knights?? DECLINE!

6. Heroes going to the battlefield is both the most innovative and stupidest design ever. On a bright side it's fun equipping your hero with stuff and fight, but then again the whole HoMM suddenly turn into a big babysitting game, because Heroes are FUCKING fragile. Early on a few arrows and that's bye-bye! And later on, your heroes will become ridiculously CHEAP (not powerful, but CHEAP). DECLINE!

7. Daily creature replenishment sucks. It takes out the tactical aspect of time control. No more "we MUST take back the castle within 3 turns or next week we'll fight our own TITANS!!". DECLINE!

The music is still awesome though.
 

Psycroptic

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 15, 2006
Messages
287
Location
Long live the new flesh!
I found the AI laughable. This completely ruined the game for me.

I liked some of the map graphics though. The music was much better than part III also. But that along with missing creatures was not enough to make it a good game for me. And I really wanted it to be great, being a fan of the series.
 

relootz

Scholar
Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
4,478
I like all HOMMS. It's not as bad as all the whiners say, its a pretty good game. But vampires are indeed horribly overpowered.
 

tarkin

Augur
Joined
Apr 27, 2005
Messages
939
Wasteland 2
I like HoMM4 for what it is. I played through all the campaigns and had a good time. The best ones were from chaos, because it gave the opportunity to go all stealth. People whining about it can't just understand it's a different game from HoMM3 and they just wanted more of the same with better graphics, as it was between HoMM and HoMM2, and between HoMM2 and HoMM3. Well tough luck, get over it faggots :)

I can agree that the game was unbalanced and therefore some (most?) of the choices between which creatures to choose were no-brainers but it doesn't matter for single player campaign. Which, again, is very well done and enjoyable.

Multiplayer, can't really comments on it since i haven't touched it but i can imagine all the players going chaos and meduza spree or some such exploits. On the other hand well designed maps can hide the game's shortcomings.
 
Joined
May 22, 2008
Messages
399
Location
Traveling both time and space
Adding to what Heresiarch said.

Every heroe takes up same amount of space as a squad of troops.

Freaking fog of war is ridiculous, wouldn't mind it so much if your buildings could have a bit bigger line of sight.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
35,066
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I liked the game, it was good. But some design decisions really sucked, for example not being able to build every creature building in your towns, AND removing upgrades too, which leads to a really small amount of units being available to you. Adding heroes to the battlefield was a thing I liked, even though at high level they could rape whole towns almost alone.
 

MetalCraze

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2007
Messages
21,104
Location
Urkanistan
Heresiarch is mostly correct. HoMM4 is inferior to previous games and that's the good reason why it's being hated.

For me HoMM ended with HoMM3 which was the peak.
 

Fowyr

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Mar 29, 2009
Messages
7,671
HoMM4 is like not so bright offspring of HoMM and my beloved Master of Magic. Clearly inferior to HoMM3 in some aspects and abyssmal compared with MoM, but good game nevertheless.
By the way, best HoMM was second :smug:
 

Reject_666_6

Arcane
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
2,465
Location
Transylvania
Dark Individual said:
I love it because there's a really strong focus on your hero. It's almost an RPG. You need several missions to completely build up your character and, no matter which skill you choose, you will become distinctively more powerful.

The idea was good, but the implementation was half-assed. Having a melee or archery hero on the battlefield in just ridiculous when you think about it: how can one guy swinging a sword take out 93 pixies? Does he swing 93 times? When they retaliate, do the remaining 247 strike him in turns, each chipping away 0.08 of a HP? Same goes for archery. How many arrows can that poor hero carry? Is it normal that in a game in which all archers have limited shots one guy can shoot a torrent of unlimited volleys?

The different specialist classes gained from mixing your skillset can get pretty useless as well because of the completely inane bonuses you get from them. Great, I took a higher level of Chaos Magic and now I am no longer a Battle Mage, which has some beefed up spells, but a Fireguard, which makes me resistant to fire, which is fucking useless since as a spellcaster I'm not sending my hero to the front lines anyway to get fried.

Above all, the combat system favours heroes too much, especially with you being able to have as many of them in your party as you want. In that respect, the game is closer to M&M than to HoMM - the bad part, of course, being that in M&M you didn't fight entire armies at once, only a small group or a mob at most. So much for consistency within the setting.

What HoMM4 did very well, though, is the actual skill system (ignoring the classes you get, even though they were a good idea in theory). It was the best in the series up to that point, to bad that HoMM5 completely outdid it.

Love the graphics as well because it is one of the very, very few games with realistically designed units and, something which shouldn't go unnoticed, real armor with no shoulder pads! It looks better than HoMM 5, King's Bounty or any other 3D Strategy/RPG as they always turn out having ridiculous human models with huge arms and retarded looking armor.

That's entirely subjective. I'm glad you like the art style, and the lack of shoulder pads is a plus, but the graphics always looked very sterile to me. I think that HoMM1/2/3/5 look infinitely better, especially since the semi-cartoony art style used in them has always been present.

Text. There's a lot of it if you play the campaign. Whenever you advance, you're rewarded with enjoyable bits of the story's progression. Combined with the graphics, the game has a very pleasant atmosphere to it devoid of idiotic cut scenes that try to look "badass".

This is true. The campaigns were enjoyable, the storylines were captivating and the lack of any clichéd "save the world" plot (well, except for the one with the half-dead guy, but that was done very sublimely) only helps. Voice acting was top-notch too.

In the intro there are 2 heroes from HoMM 3 fighting. You would expect acrobatics, fireballing and hot elves in bikini armor. Nope, they just clash their swords together which causes an apocalypse. There's also an angel shown doing surprisingly non "badass" things; he's simply rescuing some farm girl who becomes a a ruler in the new world. Here's the Youtube link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2Sy7qkk ... re=related

Yes, it's a very modest game, but then again so was HoMM3 in the concept art backgrounds. In Shadow of Death, there's an image of an undead army aproaching a human one - no nonsense, no flashiness, just two armies about to hit each other with pointy sticks until more of one side is left standing.

As a personal preference, when I started it up for the first time after upgrading to 128 Mb of RAM to run it, back in the day, I hated seing Gelu bite the dust just like that. He was one badass mofo in HoMM3, second only to Solmyr, the flamboyant Djinn. He exists.

Now for some real drawbacks of HoMM4:
- Reboot of the world. Goddam it, I hate it when they do this. HoMM5 did it too FUUUUUUUUUUUUU-
- Town defences are horrible. Two stumps that serve as towers and a small stream of urine masquerading as a moat?
- City types were reduced to just 6, and number of units per city were reduced even more from 7 + 7 upgrades in HoMM3 to 8 total units, no upgrades, and being able to choose only 5 of them per castle, because the two tier 2, 3 and 4 units can't coexist. This is shit. Thank god for HoMM5 reverting this sacrilege and even compensating for HoMM4 by adding a second branch of upgrades for each unit in ToTE.
- Fewer spells and very unimaginative ones at that.
- Armies without heroes. WHAT WERE THEY THINKING?!
- The expansions were weak, judging by the list of things added. I haven't played them, so I can't give an informed opinion, but the release notes didn't make me enthusiastic at all.
- The town armies lacked any kind of focus and seemed like just random ideas from the clueless devs. "Hey, Joe, what should we put as creatures for the Nature town? Oh, I know! Wolves, pixies, white tigers and faerie dragons!"

Good parts:
- Caravans were the best idea that HoMM4 produced. So good, in fact, that they decided to bring it back in HoMM5's first expansion.
- The music is phenomenal. Like I posted in the awesome music thread, this game has fucking classical arias and duets for town themes.
- Good campaigns.
- Some familiar heroes survive into this world. Crag Hack and Fafnir come to mind.
- Skill wheel was superior the previous instalments, like I mentioned above.
- Giving personal spellbooks to spellcasters was logical and useful.


All in all, it's a good game but it's the worst one in the series in my opinion. The main problem is that it got too ambitious and ended up changing too many things, a lot of those things being staples of the franchise.
 

Texas Red

Whiner
Joined
Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
I'm not disputing any of those main points and I agree. However, I'm an RPGer at heart and simply because of the character progression and focus on the stories I enjoyed it more than HoMM 3.
 

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