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Why not create a "Codex Top X Modded RPGs"?

AwesomeButton

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Since my recent proposition to create a "Codex RPGOTY - Retarded Edition" poll was silently ignored by the esteemed administration, I bring forward another idea that occured to me as I pondered why is the Codex RPGOTY becoming more and more of a joke every year.

One phenomenon is that RPGs formally "released" in one year take another year at least in order to become semi-finished and worth starting up just out of curiosity, because everybody wants to get paid for doing half the work nowadays, twice the quantity with half the quality. Another is that there is a subset of RPGs which either become worth playing only years later after being properly modded, or while worth playing around +1 year after release, suddenly become much better with time thanks to mods.

Three examples I can think of of games which I've played modded for a long time. First, FNV, which goes from rather unimpressive to much more immersive and better paced with mods. Second is Cyberpunk 2077 which is a unique case of a game that became sort of good action RPG after integrating balance and QoL mods that people had already been playing with for 2 years, after being an irredeemable disaster at launch (2020). Third and most recent - PoE: Deadfire. I've been playing this modded for a while now (lvl 16 currently) and the difference mods make to the experience is significant - enough to make me pick up the game and spend another ~60 hours with it.

Such a poll is obviously only worth doing once every 5-10 years, and often the same games would pop up, but the information provided to players would be much more valuable than the yearly "RPGCodex GOTY" poll can give, seeing as that poll largely mimics the mainstream tastes.

Personally I think the codex having GOTY poll is by now redundant exactly for this reason, and conforming to the "GOTY poll" buzz-inducing trick amounts to the Codex assuming one of the worst practices of "gaming "journlism"". But a more in-depth ranking of RPGs, ordered by criteria requiring intricate knowledge of the games, especially knowledge of the systems, will be both useful, unique and attractive to people who might even join the forums for the right reasons.
 

Saldrone

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Idk man. When it comes to modding i'am kind of a purist playing games how they are supossed to be played unless they provide essential bug fixes and cut content.

If you ever heard about a game that requieres mods to be enjobayle is essentially a red flag since that means that the quality of said product is insufferably mediocre or downright garbage.
 

NecroLord

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Since my recent proposition to create a "Codex RPGOTY - Retarded Edition" poll was silently ignored by the esteemed administration, I bring forward another idea that occured to me as I pondered why is the Codex RPGOTY becoming more and more of a joke every year.

One phenomenon is that RPGs formally "released" in one year take another year at least in order to become semi-finished and worth starting up just out of curiosity, because everybody wants to get paid for doing half the work nowadays, twice the quantity with half the quality. Another is that there is a subset of RPGs which either become worth playing only years later after being properly modded, or while worth playing around +1 year after release, suddenly become much better with time thanks to mods.

Three examples I can think of of games which I've played modded for a long time. First, FNV, which goes from rather unimpressive to much more immersive and better paced with mods. Second is Cyberpunk 2077 which is a unique case of a game that became sort of good action RPG after integrating balance and QoL mods that people had already been playing with for 2 years, after being an irredeemable disaster at launch (2020). Third and most recent - PoE: Deadfire. I've been playing this modded for a while now (lvl 16 currently) and the difference mods make to the experience is significant - enough to make me pick up the game and spend another ~60 hours with it.

Such a poll is obviously only worth doing once every 5-10 years, and often the same games would pop up, but the information provided to players would be much more valuable than the yearly "RPGCodex GOTY" poll can give, seeing as that poll largely mimics the mainstream tastes.

Personally I think the codex having GOTY poll is by now redundant exactly for this reason, and conforming to the "GOTY poll" buzz-inducing trick amounts to the Codex assuming one of the worst practices of "gaming "journlism"". But a more in-depth ranking of RPGs, ordered by criteria requiring intricate knowledge of the games, especially knowledge of the systems, will be both useful, unique and attractive to people who might even join the forums for the right reasons.
Do you honestly want to know all about the players porn mods?
Is that it?
 

AwesomeButton

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If you ever heard about a game that requieres mods to be enjobayle is essentially a red flag since that means that the quality of said product is insufferably mediocre or downright garbage.
I don't know of a single RPG that got "everything right" in its design and systems. Every RPG could use tweaking, some need just a bit, some need more, to become enjoyable to some subset of players.

There is also this thing about your tastes becoming more and more specific and particular the further you advance in age. It applies to everything, including your videogames.
 

AwesomeButton

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Do you honestly want to know all about the players porn mods?
Is that it?
I'll take my chances that you are not a retard and not shitposting.

No, I don't expect a prestigious site like this one to start hyping up porn mods in its top modded rpgs list.

I imagine the list being organized as the Top 70 with user reviews because obviously we don't have a single person knowing everything about every prospective RPG on the list. The reviews would be checked by a forum admin before posting the list obviously. Also, info on porn mods is widely available, no need to do a niche list on a niche RPG site about it. And finally, I've specified in the OP that the list should concentrate on modding of game systems.
 

NecroLord

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Yeah, I know what you mean.
But there are already some threads which list good and useful mods.
For example, the Thief mods thread.
Also, there's one for older games, mainly to help in getting them to work on modern systems.
 

AwesomeButton

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Yeah, I know what you mean.
But there are already some threads which list good and useful mods.
For example, the Thief mods thread.
Also, there's one for older games, mainly to help in getting them to work on modern systems.
I know there are (threads), but they are not showing on the news page. The use case I envision is, I come to the Codex and learn that a game like Rogue Trader has had a thorough rebalance mod. It's an RPG in a good setting, better than average production values, pretty art, writing is formulaic, but I can get over that, but its systems are playing too safe, devoid of challenge. So suddenly I'm interested in checking it out again. And there are many games like that.

I wager there are a big group of players who have heard of Arcanum and ToEE and played them way back, and even know there are mods for them, but would be too lazy to install and try them before hearing a review about them and finding step by step instructions from someone who installed them recently. Same for IWD and IWD2 (the latter of which needs some tricky stuff to avoid fog of war glitches and using higher resolutions)
 

Shaki

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Do you honestly want to know all about the players porn mods?
Is that it?
I'll take my chances that you are not a retard and not shitposting.

No, I don't expect a prestigious site like this one to start hyping up porn mods in its top modded rpgs list.
Idk, last mod shilling I saw here recently, was Non-Edgy Gamer hyping up BG3 mod turning every male companion into a tranny, yapping how it actually makes the game so much better and drooling over screenshots of Gayle and Wyll with boobs.

Also with Rance winning top jRPG poll, I wouldn't be surprised if the top moded list also ended up being pretty weird. Codex has a lot of degenerates.
 

Bester

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Third and most recent - PoE: Deadfire. I've been playing this modded for a while now (lvl 16 currently) and the difference mods make to the experience is significant - enough to make me pick up the game and spend another ~60 hours with it.
How so?
Just curious. They probably just change some rules, which doesn't help a game that suffers from terrible writing. No mods to fix that = no use modding it.
 

Gargaune

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I don't think it would work because you're running into a severe frame of reference problem. With your typical GOTY poll, people might be coming at individual titles from different angles, with their own perspectives and experiences, but at least the game itself is a defined common denominator. But that goes away once you make the modded product the focus, so what you've got is different people with different interests voting on fundamentally different products that they've been more or less wildly tailoring to those particular interests. It just stops being relevant altogether.
 

Butter

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Deus Ex with GMDX is best. Troika games most need basic bug-fixing mods to be playable. New Vegas benefits most from rebalance mods.
 

Gregz

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The current meta of gaming is to consume whatever garbage you're fed without complaint.

The heart and sovl of true PC gaming, however, is indeed found in mods. Some of my favorite moments with PC RPGs involved mods. Here are a few:

Mount & Blade: Warband - Prophesy of Pendor
Diablo 2 - Median XL
Half-Life - Counter-Strike
Battlefield 1942 - Desert Combat
Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines - Wesp5's mod
Jagged Alliance 2 - 1.13

.. and there are so many others.
 
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NecroLord

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The current meta of gaming is to consume whatever garbage you're fed without complaint.

The heart and sovl of true PC gaming, however, is indeed found in mods. Some of my favorite moments with PC RPGs involved mods. Here are a few:

Mount & Blade: Warband - Prophesy of Pendor
Diablo 2 - Median XL
Half-Life - Counter-Strike
Battlefield 1942 - Desert Combat
Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines - Wesp5's mod
Jagged Alliance 2 - 1.13

.. and there are so many others.
I try not to get too carried away when I decide to install mods, as I am against heavy modding.
Just basic bug fixing, compatibility and stability, that's the stuff I want to see in a mod.
I am also not averse to something which adds to the gameplay or enhances it, for example granting the Demons and Undead in Baldur's Gate their Pnp abilities and behavior...
That's awesome.
 

Gandalf

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The current meta of gaming is to consume whatever garbage you're fed without complaint.

The heart and sovl of true PC gaming, however, is indeed found in mods. Some of my favorite moments with PC RPGs involved mods. Here are a few:

Mount & Blade: Warband - Prophesy of Pendor
Diablo 2 - Median XL
Half-Life - Counter-Strike
Battlefield 1942 - Desert Combat
Vampire: The Masquerade – Bloodlines - Wesp5's mod
Jagged Alliance 2 - 1.13

.. and there are so many others.
I try not to get too carried away when I decide to install mods, as I am against heavy modding.
Just basic bug fixing, compatibility and stability, that's the stuff I want to see in a mod.
I am also not averse to something which adds to the gameplay or enhances it, for example granting the Demons and Undead in Baldur's Gate their Pnp abilities and behavior...
That's awesome.
Yeah, me too, but I usually go with total conversions mods, because they're like entirely new games.
 

Covenant

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I think it's a good idea, as long as a bit of care and curation is in place. There are a lot of games where modding has turned something that started out good into something truly great; Adrageron 's Legend of Grimrock II mods spring to mind.
 

octavius

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If you ever heard about a game that requieres mods to be enjobayle is essentially a red flag since that means that the quality of said product is insufferably mediocre or downright garbage.

But if mods can improve it so that it becomes a good game, then the mediocre game has its merits.
 

luj1

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Morrowind easily

The best and most active modding community

Probably Diablo II as close second (Phrozen Keep)

And perhaps Heroes 3 as third but not an RPG
 

Saldrone

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But if mods can improve it so that it becomes a good game, then the mediocre game has its merits.
Yeah but even the most passionate modders can't change inherently and objetively bad aspects of the game like the mediocre story and characters. Just look at Fallout 4
I don't know of a single RPG that got "everything right" in its design and systems. Every RPG could use tweaking, some need just a bit, some need more, to become enjoyable to some subset of players.
That's actually a pretty relative criteria if certain mods actually improves the game or just makes it bloated. For example many people complained about the Enhanced Edition companions for Baldur's Gate criticizing them for having inferior writing compared to the base games, even through they potentially add more replayablity due to opening new strategies in party composition
 

InD_ImaginE

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While this might be interesting, the problem is that a modded gameplay pretty much will have very few candidate and the fact that even fewer people have played

Like how many RPG in the recent years have big enough modding community and have a lot of codex player enjoying it besides Bethesda games?

On top of my mind BG1&2 with SCS, Deus Ex with GMDX, Jagged Alliance 2 with 1.13 are probably the only ones common enough for it to gather enough people to vote on them

Some probably dabbled a bit in Witcher 2 and 3 modding, some of them good.

What else really? Does Modules count like NWN?

And then there is a matter of frame of reference. Say talking about BG1 with SCS, some people will play with some other mods on, some are SCS purist only, some are playing BigWorld/BGT.

It will heavily muddle the discussion.
 
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https://youtu.be/mbI9eVna_rg?si=Zy3u4xcXu6-mT20C

If you're a history nerd, there's a Warband total conversion mod called Gekokujo which I consider essential to play if you have any interest in samurai or the warring states period in Japan.

The pure autism put into this mod is beautiful. Accurately modeled historical Japanese castles and temples greatly improve the siege combat over base game warband, period accurate matchlock firearms add a lot more depth to army variety, even the in-game bandits are replaced with historically accurate analogies (Like Ikki Monk rebels around the Ise province, and Wokou pirates near Kyushu Island).

Its probably the only time I've played a mod that was actually better than the base game it was attached to.
 

agris

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I think you could expand the concept AwesomeButton to "Definitive editions" rather than just modded. It would include modded, remasters, OGs - whatever.

The hardest part would be curation. Do you vote on the modded version? that could be difficult when there's multiple large, competing mods for certain classics. I think you vote on the platform, i.e. base game, with an understanding that your vote is for whatever modded / restored / original game you feel propels it to the top spot.
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
Third and most recent - PoE: Deadfire. I've been playing this modded for a while now (lvl 16 currently) and the difference mods make to the experience is significant - enough to make me pick up the game and spend another ~60 hours with it.
How so?
Just curious. They probably just change some rules, which doesn't help a game that suffers from terrible writing. No mods to fix that = no use modding it.
Deadfire provides almost too many settings to configure difficulty and gameplay. In my case I'm playing:

Veteran difficulty (I don't like huge mobs with buffed stats as means to increase difficulty)
No Magran challenges/ Berath bonuses
Turn based
Expert mode off
Equipment is chosen mostly for RP reasons, but abilities and multiclassing for optimization
Major impact: as you can expect, everything is scaled only upwards, but to add to that, mods I use raise the upper limit of scaling higher. This is the biggest factor in increasing the challenge, as much as Deadfire's difficulty can be increased in a non-braindead way.

Mods:
Community patch
Balance polishing mod (all parts)
Enhanced User Interface
Comprehensive Leveling Improvement and XP Reduction
Navy of Deadfire
A bigger fish

I don't think it would work because you're running into a severe frame of reference problem. With your typical GOTY poll, people might be coming at individual titles from different angles, with their own perspectives and experiences, but at least the game itself is a defined common denominator. But that goes away once you make the modded product the focus, so what you've got is different people with different interests voting on fundamentally different products that they've been more or less wildly tailoring to those particular interests. It just stops being relevant altogether.
Yeah, no objective way to define what a good modded experience is for everyone, but that goes hand in hand with modding in the first place. What we have instead is the "codex consesus" or the subjective and informed view of the person who wrote the paragraph about that game. We assume he knows what the good mods are and is experienced enough to suggest a good combination. That recommendation based on experience is where I see the value of such a listing of modded games. I feel confident enough to offer such advice for Cyberpunk for example, as I've been trawling through the nexus for some years now. There is already a similar feature on the nexus actually, it allows people to share their full mod lists, as they have them on their machines. This results in a curated and thematically coherent mod setup for the game in question. Then other users go through the list and make note of what they like from what's in it.

But if mods can improve it so that it becomes a good game, then the mediocre game has its merits.
We have to take the stance that games are on a spectrum from shit to good, and quality can't be described in a binary way. This may be difficult for some people here to swallow.

Like how many RPG in the recent years have big enough modding community and have a lot of codex player enjoying it besides Bethesda games?
Yes, the list wouldn't be very long, and with time its entries will become immutable, as the activity of the modding community for a game gradually winds down. The longer ago this happened, the more valuable the entry would be in such a list, because the knowledge is lost. How many people will know how to mod Arcanum in 5 years? Or take a look at IE games' threads, usually Baldur's Gate where people occasionally pop up to ask what mod to use. They get answers, set up their game and usually don't come back.


On top of my mind BG1&2 with SCS, Deus Ex with GMDX, Jagged Alliance 2 with 1.13 are probably the only ones common enough for it to gather enough people to vote on them
Number of votes and classification are secondary for me. I see every game on such a list as occupying an equally high spot, since it's already an old RPG which has attracted enough interest through the years in order to be modded and significantly improved. Comparing "modded X vs modded Y" in order to arrange them in a top 20 is really very subjective and doesn't benefit players that much. What benefits them more is finding out how to mod a game that they already liked or had some previous interest in. There are also cases, games, at least in my experience, where the modding scene is so large, or modding is so complex that I don't know where to start from.

The hardest part would be curation. Do you vote on the modded version? that could be difficult when there's multiple large, competing mods for certain classics. I think you vote on the platform, i.e. base game, with an understanding that your vote is for whatever modded / restored / original game you feel propels it to the top spot.
I imagine it as someone with a long time experience with a game giving their take on how it's best modded, according to his own experience. That's not final and ultimate source of truth, but it's an informed opinion that can serve as a starting point or pique the interest of players familiar with the game but unaware of what modding can offer for it. Sure that in the process of composing the list, there may come a situation where multiple views will compete, but in that case we can post both or all the existing modding setups in the list. I don't imagine this will occur for many games and even where it does (like for Witcher 3 - "Enhanced Edition setup" vs "Ghost mod setup") the emphases that competing modding setups have will be pointed out.


I think you could expand the concept @AwesomeButton to "Definitive editions" rather than just modded. It would include modded, remasters, OGs - whatever.
I'm not sure what list entries for remasters and OGs would describe though, since these are already described in the respective digital store's page.
 
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Falksi

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Genuinely struggling to think of any game which I've played and enjoyed more with mods, other than Morrowind.

That said, wouldn't hurt to have a list of modded stuff either.
 

Gargaune

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Yeah, no objective way to define what a good modded experience is for everyone, but that goes hand in hand with modding in the first place. What we have instead is the "codex consesus" or the subjective and informed view of the person who wrote the paragraph about that game. We assume he knows what the good mods are and is experienced enough to suggest a good combination. That recommendation based on experience is where I see the value of such a listing of modded games. I feel confident enough to offer such advice for Cyberpunk for example, as I've been trawling through the nexus for some years now. There is already a similar feature on the nexus actually, it allows people to share their full mod lists, as they have them on their machines. This results in a curated and thematically coherent mod setup for the game in question. Then other users go through the list and make note of what they like from what's in it.
Sure, I could see that, but it seems like it'd be a discussion thread, not a general "top X" sort of poll. Put it this way, if you're interested in action and combat balance, you might assemble a collection that, in your opinion, warrants voting modded Cyberpunk over modded Skyrim, but if a coomer comes in, he's always gonna vote modded Skyrim top of the list. So ranking titles becomes pointless because you've got different standards, as with any poll, but also different products despite bearing the same titles.

If anything, you could do a poll sort of affair on modding an individual game, like what's the best collection of mods for Cyberpunk. Voters will still come at it from different angles, but at that point you're comparing the mod lists themselves, assessing modded Cyberpunk against modded Cyberpunk, so you at least get an impression of what the community in aggregate thinks is Cyberpunk "at its best."

That said, I'm not sure mod lists are a popular enough concept to give you much to poll on. The Nexus (and Wabbajack before them, I think?) came up with collections to make that kind of comprehensive "mods will fix it" approach more accessible to the general public, so they could rank for popularity over there, but I imagine most people around here probably still mod their games à la carte rather than pulling an entire package.
 

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