Why RPGCodex is censored at the ESF

[HardCode]

Yes, it is a very big deal. Bethesda has been misrepresenting their product since before release, and have been censoring anyone who tries to make the truth known. Through censorship and the resulting uncontested/disproven hype, Bethesda is able to succeed in the game-market, and not only will this success influence the direction of RPGs, it will also influence the online marketing of games, game systems, and ultimately anything else that can succeed under this new business model established by Bethesda.

Yes, today Oblivion may simply be an overhyped shitty game, sold in bits and pieces to an unknowing and forgetful public. However if we allow companies to misrepresent their products to us in such a manner while silencing our efforts to produce objective analysis and critique where they will be seen by other potential customers, then this problem of false representation is going to perpetuate far beyond simply the marketing of shitty games.

You make it sound all so very conspiracy-theory like ...

Of course it is. We're talking about a company with members of the Democratic Party on the Board of Directors, and millions of dollars at stake. The scumbag rules of big business in the US do apply.

 

[OverrideB1]

You can discuss Oblivion on ESF just as well as you can on the Codex.
On the other hand, you can't brag about your trolling exploits over there.

On the third hand, you really cannot discuss Oblivion at the ESf unless you're gushingly positive about it, or willing to have your post either stamped on by rabid fanboys and/or locked by the draconian moderation over there. If your post is well-considered, logical, and states your opinion with reasons for said opinions, some obnoxious little toads will come along and make sure that it gets locked by acting like a complete arseholes -- I've had that happen, so don't tell me it doesn't.

The truth is, plain and simple, that there are a lot of immature and highly passionate fans of Oblivion on the ESF -- people who wouldn't know a good RPG if it kicked them in the nadgers but think that Oblivion is the dog's dangly bits: because all the other rabid little lemmings tell them that it is.

 

[Lumpy]

Oh, really?
I've made several threads critical of Oblivion, and most of them have lived until they reached the maximum post limit, or really close to it. And I've seen countless such threads which weren't locked until they reached 200 posts.

 

[Monica21]

You can't make someone like something because you can't change someone's mind.

Isn't this one of the most narrow-minded opinions expressed?

I should clarify then. I don't think an internet forum is going to change someone's mind. I think that you either have to have a certain mindset or be leaning a certain way. The only thing that will really change people's minds is simply playing other games and realizing that Oblivion isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Not to defend Darkflame but, he had a valid point about proxies and IPs, which you chose not to answer.

Excuse me if I find Darkflame a little hard to take seriously. His point isn't valid, because moderators aren't being tricky. There are a ton of ways to track internet IPs without any trickiness involved. You just type in a number and it tells you where it's coming from. People using proxies are harder to trace, but Bethesda does have a ban-on-site policy for certain people, and considering that Darkflame has stated he's being repeatedly banned, I'm going out on a limb and guess he's one of those people, and also guess that he's not doing a very good job of hiding who he is.

 

[Ahzaruuk]

You can discuss Oblivion on ESF just as well as you can on the Codex.
On the other hand, you can't brag about your trolling exploits over there.

On the third hand, you really cannot discuss Oblivion at the ESf unless you're gushingly positive about it, or willing to have your post either stamped on by rabid fanboys and/or locked by the draconian moderation over there.

I'm well aware you don't look at the site regularily (if at all) But as a frequenter, I can easily refute this statement.

There has yet to be a day where I HAVEN'T seen a thread critical of Oblivion in some form. Mind you, The fanaticism on Both sides have decreased considerably.

 

[sabishii]

[quote="denizsi"I should clarify then. I don't think an internet forum is going to change someone's mind. I think that you either have to have a certain mindset or be leaning a certain way. The only thing that will really change people's minds is simply playing other games and realizing that Oblivion isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Comments like "lolz Oblivion rox" or "zomg Oblivion suxxorz" are not going to convince anyone... However, a well formed argument with supporting details in a forum is no different from a well formed argument in any other medium - no different from (better than) a magazine review.

 

[Darkflame]

Considering that you tricky moderators have some secret method for eventually tracking down and banning every single account I've ever created over there, I'm sure you would run the authors of any emails you receive up against the user database, and ban any user with that same email... you already do it with IPs, in spite of knowing that its very possible in this day and age for multiple users to share public proxies and thus have the same IP.

Are you a fucking moron? You've been acting like an idiot for the past months, creating trolling accounts on the ESF, and now you're complaining that the moderators have been banning all accounts with your email address and IP?
By the way, let me guess. You're an ESF refugee who hates Bethesda because of Oblivion. You've joined the Codex because it's like an Anti-Bethesda site, and to be cool you've been trolling the ESF.
And the list of topics you've been posting in is very interesting:

Why RPGCodex is censored at the ESF
Initial Impressions
Best Thread Ever. (part 2)
Your top 5 RPG list
why you should really like Oblivion
Hello and some praise to Bethesda
Bethesda is now officially a nazi state!
Which Oblivion Dev Lied The Most?
Bethesda design philosophy in a nutshell
Gamasutra readers bow down and suck to Oblivion
Knights of the Nine
Recommend me shit.
Super Secret RPG Launch Title Conf1rmed!!!1
Bethesda will announce a new game on the 1st November.
Oblivion on PS3 + PSP with new lame faction
My Oblivion Review
Mini Games in TES Games?
Cow Guru, I too have been banned.
Oblivion's Target Audience Finally Revealed.
Time to Throw in the Towel?
Amusing ESF thread

All of them related, in one way or another, to Bethesda or Oblivion.
Really, if you hate Oblivion that much, how about playing some other RPGs, rather than spending all your time bitching about how much it sucks and how nazi the Moderators are.

I poke fun, but I rarely bitch on the internet. If you bothered to read any of my posts rather than simply the titles of the topics they were posted in, you would have noticed. I derive enjoyment from reading about other people's complaints about anything, and since most people here complain about Oblivion, you'll generally find me in those topics. Also, as others have stated, complaints (logically structured and supported by evidence, and therefore interesting to me) on the official forums are few and far between; I've been reading this site on and off since August 2004, and one day when I had something I figured would be funny to say, I created my account here and said it.

I posted links here to some of my "trolls" on ESF not to brag about them (but it does hearten me to see your furious penis envy), but to share a laugh with whomever wanted one. When I think of something funny, or that I believe will illicit a funny response, I post it. If that is "trolling" and a "ban-able offense", I don't give a flying fuck. Whether or not you find it funny means nothing to me.

But I really would like to thank you Lumpy for paying me the conscientious attention and adoration I so readily deserve; it isn't everyday that I find myself saying "I" so many times in one post, but I think I could get used to it...

 

[denizsi]

I should clarify then. I don't think an internet forum is going to change someone's mind. I think that you either have to have a certain mindset or be leaning a certain way.

Why even give conditions after you already declare that you think it won't happen? I mean, conditions are all that makes things go one way or another.

Also, are you aware that, there is practically only one option outside of those conditions and that option is bigotry?

The only thing that will really change people's minds is simply playing other games and realizing that Oblivion isn't all it's cracked up to be.

So I guess people learn about other games in their dreams and not through social interaction.

Excuse me if I find Darkflame a little hard to take seriously. His point isn't valid, because moderators aren't being tricky. There are a ton of ways to track internet IPs without any trickiness involved. You just type in a number and it tells you where it's coming from. People using proxies are harder to trace, but Bethesda does have a ban-on-site policy for certain people, and considering that Darkflame has stated he's being repeatedly banned, I'm going out on a limb and guess he's one of those people, and also guess that he's not doing a very good job of hiding who he is.

Why are you talking to me about Darkflame and his dirty little adventures? Read again: He has a valid point which is proved through my own first-hand experience and you answer that instead of rambling about him, and no I'm not talking about the current state of my ESF account.

 

[Balor]

Well, all this threads show one thing:
The best, most qualified and highly payed deparment of Bethesda is PR one. No question.

 

[Hungry Donner]

By the way, let me guess. You're an ESF refugee who hates Bethesda because of Oblivion. You've joined the Codex because it's like an Anti-Bethesda site, and to be cool you've been trolling the ESF.

In Darkflame/Brittney's defence, I'm pretty sure he/she is primarily unhappy with the forums and moderation rather than the games.

Excuse me if I find Darkflame a little hard to take seriously.

I think it's safe to assume that Darkflame isn't expecting to be taken seriously.

I mean, it obviously doesn't take a "secret method" to track someone who use ip proxies, especially when so many of their accounts are trollish from the get go. It's also obviously silly to suggest that Bethesda would ban people who contacted them about the censor since the admin are the ones that said people should do this.

You can discuss Oblivion on ESF just as well as you can on the Codex.
On the other hand, you can't brag about your trolling exploits over there.

Actually we love to see people bragging about that sort of stuff, it really speeds things up

The truth is, plain and simple, that there are a lot of immature and highly passionate fans of Oblivion on the ESF

There are a lot of immature and highly passionate fans over there, in both the pro-Oblivion and anti-Oblivion camps. But isn't that sort of the pot calling the kettle black?

 

[Vipera]

Comments like "lolz Oblivion rox" or "zomg Oblivion suxxorz" are not going to convince anyone... However, a well formed argument with supporting details in a forum is no different from a well formed argument in any other medium - no different from (better than) a magazine review.

Indeed. I have never seen a thread that employed logic and even a smidgen of respect locked at the ESF, not matter how critical of Oblivion it is. It all comes down to how you express yourself.

 

[Balor]

Passionate - yes.
Immature - only after half MW/Oblivion (ex)fans migrated to Codex for some reason, as though someone invited them.
And besides, being edgy does not automatically equal immature. Tell that to bryce/Jim Kata .

And remember about 'giving trolls enough rope to hang themselves and them poke them with sticks' rule.
Vipera can tell from his own experience that it works nicely. Well, perhaps *nicely* is not a very proper term, but I bet that you catch my drift, he-he-he.
...
Anyway, I really pity you, ESF mods. Digging in this cesspit must be one hell of a work... on the other hand, summer seem to enjoy it.
It does bring up certain... thoughts.

 

[Vipera]

Passionate - yes.
Immature - only after half MW/Oblivion (ex)fans migrated to Codex for some reason, as though someone invited them.
And besides, being edgy does not automatically equal immature. Tell that to bryce/Jim Kata .

And remember about 'giving trolls enough rope to hang themselves and them poke them with sticks' rule.
Vipera can tell from his own experience that it works nicely. Well, perhaps *nicely* is not a very proper term, but I bet that you catch my drift, he-he-he.
...
Anyway, I really pity you, ESF mods. Digging in this cesspit must be one hell of a work... on the other hand, summer seem to enjoy it.
It does bring up certain... thoughts.

I have no idea what experience you speak of...

 

[Balor]

But isn't that sort of the pot calling the kettle black?

But don't you afraid to be fired for making racist jokes? Mwahahaha.
Anyway, SOME threads with negativity do not get locked, indeed. Others get swamped with flame do get locked.
Simple. It's just a matter of obeying the rules... too bad that mods exersize their right to lock threads way too often - I'd say banning and warning people is ok, but keep hands away from threads.
Unless they are dumb and irrelevant to begin with, of course.

 

[Balor]

Passionate - yes.
Immature - only after half MW/Oblivion (ex)fans migrated to Codex for some reason, as though someone invited them.
And besides, being edgy does not automatically equal immature. Tell that to bryce/Jim Kata .

And remember about 'giving trolls enough rope to hang themselves and them poke them with sticks' rule.
Vipera can tell from his own experience that it works nicely. Well, perhaps *nicely* is not a very proper term, but I bet that you catch my drift, he-he-he.
...
Anyway, I really pity you, ESF mods. Digging in this cesspit must be one hell of a work... on the other hand, summer seem to enjoy it.
It does bring up certain... thoughts.

I have no idea what experience you speak of...

O RLY? Check my advice at best thread evar pt2, and reread your, ahem, moments of glory in 'Initial impressions' thread.

 

[Darkflame]

By the way, let me guess. You're an ESF refugee who hates Bethesda because of Oblivion. You've joined the Codex because it's like an Anti-Bethesda site, and to be cool you've been trolling the ESF.

In Darkflame/Brittney's defence, I'm pretty sure he/she is primarily unhappy with the forums and moderation rather than the games.

Excuse me if I find Darkflame a little hard to take seriously.

I think it's safe to assume that Darkflame isn't expecting to be taken seriously.

I mean, it obviously doesn't take a "secret method" to track someone who use ip proxies, especially when so many of their accounts are trollish from the get go. It's also obviously silly to suggest that Bethesda would ban people who contacted them about the censor since the admin are the ones that said people should do this.

You can discuss Oblivion on ESF just as well as you can on the Codex.
On the other hand, you can't brag about your trolling exploits over there.

Actually we love to see people bragging about that sort of stuff, it really speeds things up

The truth is, plain and simple, that there are a lot of immature and highly passionate fans of Oblivion on the ESF

There are a lot of immature and highly passionate fans over there, in both the pro-Oblivion and anti-Oblivion camps. But isn't that sort of the pot calling the kettle black?

Someone has a keen and cunning memory...

To elucidate your first point, I'm primarily unhappy with the way Oblivion was deceitfully marketed to Bethesda's former fans, and to an unknowing public. The dev comments prior to release were completely fabricated, and the E3 video is extremely deceptive. Profiting on such intentional misrepresentation is wrong; I get pissed when used car-salesmen do it and I get pissed when game companies do it.

No real gripes about the forum moderation, other than that you closed my "Did the Developers Lie" thread before I had a chance to read any of the responses. If the dev's were so eager to have their mendacious claims posted on the forums prior to release, those claims should still remain intact after release to be considered for proper evaluation and accurate game reviews. Instead, the post-count for almost all of the devs had been deleted upon release (and I know, since I'm the one who compiled that list of "lies", which I had to go to waitingforoblivion.com to obtain).

You're right on target about everything else, however.

 

[Nutcracker]

Lumpy, you originated from the ESF too. Dont harass your brethren.

 

[Monica21]

Why are you talking to me about Darkflame and his dirty little adventures? Read again: He has a valid point which is proved through my own first-hand experience and you answer that instead of rambling about him, and no I'm not talking about the current state of my ESF account.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Are you suggesting that there are secret ways of tracking IPs that Bethesda is using and no one else is? Please elaborate.

 

[Darkflame]

Why are you talking to me about Darkflame and his dirty little adventures? Read again: He has a valid point which is proved through my own first-hand experience and you answer that instead of rambling about him, and no I'm not talking about the current state of my ESF account.

I have no idea what point you're trying to make. Are you suggesting that there are secret ways of tracking IPs that Bethesda is using and no one else is? Please elaborate.

The point is that public proxies are used by millions every day. This means that it is likely that multiple users may use the same IP at different times.

When the moderators on ESF ban a disruptive member, they also ban any accounts with the same IP address, regardless of how those other accounts have posted (or if they have any relation at all to the originally banned account). This means that if you use a proxy, you can get banned from ESF even though you haven't broken any rules.

 

[TheGreatGodPan]

Of course it is. We're talking about a company with members of the Democratic Party on the Board of Directors, and millions of dollars at stake. The scumbag rules of big business in the US do apply.

Not quite sure to the degree to which you are being serious, but I don't think the problem is that they're connected with Democrats (a party I have nothing but loathing for, although I'm not too keen on the Republicans as of late either), but that the people that liked good games and rpgs left and the remaining ones in charge think Fallout (which even gamasutra seems to credit to Black Isle) was great because of hookers'n'drugs rather than any rpg aspect of it.

 

[OccupatedVoid]

Of course it is. We're talking about a company with members of the Democratic Party on the Board of Directors, and millions of dollars at stake. The scumbag rules of big business in the US do apply.

NO POLITICS COMRADE CODEXER!

ALWAYS BE VIGILANT!

 

[Monica21]

The point is that public proxies are used by millions every day. This means that it is likely that multiple users may use the same IP at different times.

When the moderators on ESF ban a disruptive member, they also ban any accounts with the same IP address, regardless of how those other accounts have posted (or if they have any relation at all to the originally banned account). This means that if you use a proxy, you can get banned from ESF even though you haven't broken any rules.

I will let HD address the IP banning issue (if he can), because I don't feel comfortable doing so, and because it also may be different than when I was a moderator. That doesn't change the fact that if you don't behave in a "disruptive" fasion, then you don't have to worry about getting banned, or worry about your precious IP address. It's good know that you care so much about the rights of other posters though.

 

[Monica21]

Of course it is. We're talking about a company with members of the Democratic Party on the Board of Directors, and millions of dollars at stake. The scumbag rules of big business in the US do apply.

I thought the scumbag rules of big business applied to Republicans. And hey, if they're on the DNC Board, I guess I like Bethesda after all.

 

[OccupatedVoid]

I thought the scumbag rules of big business applied to Republicans.)

Nah. Republicans are more Orwellian than Capitalistic(my own word!).

 

[Hungry Donner]

When the moderators on ESF ban a disruptive member, they also ban any accounts with the same IP address, regardless of how those other accounts have posted (or if they have any relation at all to the originally banned account).

Nope.

We're well aware that a proxy may be used by multiple unrelated people. In fact, we've had multiple unrelated people banned on the same ip. Someone may stumble upon a banned proxy, but an ip match by itself isn't enough to ban an account.

To elucidate your first point, I'm primarily unhappy with the way Oblivion was deceitfully marketed to Bethesda's former fans, and to an unknowing public. The dev comments prior to release were completely fabricated, and the E3 video is extremely deceptive. Profiting on such intentional misrepresentation is wrong; I get pissed when used car-salesmen do it and I get pissed when game companies do it.

Huh, well I stand corrected.

Immature - only after half MW/Oblivion (ex)fans migrated to Codex for some reason, as though someone invited them.

I never said they weren't

I thought the scumbag rules of big business applied to Republicans.)

Nah. Republicans are more Orwellian than Capitalistic(my own word!).

Capitaltastic!