Why RPGCodex is censored at the ESF

[Elhoim]

The problem is that this site contain things like "profanity, explicit or graphic sexual or violent material, illegal downloads or other legally questionable content, and so on."

 

[Hazelnut]

It's been more of a cold war. The "hostilities", (to continue the metaphor), as of late have been carried out mainly by Codex newbies. I know gaining legitimacy in the eyes of Bethesda is as much a priority among everyone here as getting festering boils on your taint, but all these "trolling missions" aren't doing much beyond being slightly amusing. It's going to get old fast.

-D4

With you on that D4, but mainly? It's more like exclusively from what I've seen. There's been a lot of pointless immaturity from the ESF refugee's that find a haven of freedom here this year, and quite frankly it's embarrassing. Especially you Darkflame - you pretty much embody the entire sorry phenomenon, and I wish you would just fuck off or grow up.

Everyday I curse this damn war. We should be at home drinking beer and bitch slapping the missy...

Well mates I'm headed out on another trolling mission. My name this time is PizzaSandwich... now guard this post and stay low...ol summer is soon ta be gettin a pizza, fully loaded...

I get the distinct impression that the average age of the Codex forum poster has dropped by at least a decade or so over the course of 2006..

 

[Jed]

The problem is that this site contain things like "profanity, explicit or graphic sexual or violent material, illegal downloads or other legally questionable content, and so on."

That's a bullshit reason because they don't censor all other sites which may or may not contain "objectionable" material; plus it still doesn't explain why you can't even write the name "RPG Codex" ...

 

[Elhoim]

Of course it is. They wouldn´t admit that they are censoring this site because they don´t like what it says about their master´s game...

 

[aweigh]

I'm curious, is "Oblivion sucks" really auto-filtered into "Oblivion is the best game ever", or was that a joke? The thing is, It wouldn't surprise me at all if it wasn't a joke, so that's why I ask.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Nope, not a joke.

Edit: We have a visitor - Hungry Donner. Welcome to our humble abode, Donner.

 

[Hungry Donner]

The only people who can give you a definite, official explanation for the Codex being censored are the developers. If you want to ask you can e-mail them here.

The moderators do not have a definite explanation. We can speculate. That means out comments aren’t official and they may not be true (or at least not entirely true). Despite going out of our way to point this out a lot of people seem to have difficulty grasping it. So for those special few I’ll repeat myself: if you want an explanation from a moderator you have to understand that it is in no way official. If you want an official response you’ll have to e-mail Bethesda.

There are a lot of reasons why the Codex may be censored. I’ve speculated about this in the past, but I’ll refrain from doing it here. It’s clear that I’ll only be ridiculed for it. Then again I suppose I would deserve the ridicule. I’ve tried to help twice in the past and been flamed for my efforts, the fact that I’m trying yet again is ridiculous. It’s also ridiculous that I’m trying to help when it’s clear you won’t be happy until you get an official explanation (even though you keep demanding answers from the mods). Well, if you want an official explanation the only people who can give to you are the administrators.


To be honest I don’t understand why you feel so passionately about this. As far as I can tell the majority here loathe Oblivion, loathe Bethesda, and loathe their forums . . . so why do you even care about this? If the official TES forums really are full or morons why would you want to advertise your site there?


A lot of people here seem to think there’s some huge anti-Codex conspiracy. The thing is, we don’t keep track of these forums (after the third PM directing me to this thread I finally decided to check it out) and we don’t keep a list of TES members who are also members of the Codex. We also don’t ban people for expressing negative views of the game. In fact there are plenty of people who have been extremely critical of Oblivion and they have no warnings what so ever – some even post on this forum.


I should point out that purposefully bypassing the auto-censor is a warnable offence, no matter how clever or effective the bypass is. If you want to come up with sneaky ways around this I won’t stop you, but it’s not going to get you out of a warning if you’re caught.

I'm curious, is "Oblivion sucks" really auto-filtered into "Oblivion is the best game ever", or was that a joke? The thing is, It wouldn't surprise me at all if it wasn't a joke, so that's why I ask.

It's a joke. The same thing was done for Morrowind Sucks, although most people understood that was intended to be humorous.

 

[Vault Dweller]

A lot of people here seem to think there’s some huge anti-Codex conspiracy. The thing is, we don’t keep track of these forums...

Which is why even mentioning the Codex, not only linking to it, is a crime.

I understand that it's not your decision, Donner, and I did speak with several Bethesda developers and was given the answer. It doesn't take a genius, however, to figure out what's going on and why.

 

[Hungry Donner]

Which is why even mentioning the Codex, not only linking to it, is a crime.

I should have been clearer in my post. I meant that we're not out to get members of the Codex.

I shouldn't have combined the two issues in one post.

I understand that it's not your decision, Donner, and I did speak with several Bethesda developers and was given the answer. It doesn't take a genius, however, to figure out what's going on and why.

Well if you guys have an official explanation from the devs I’m a bit confused why people continue to discuss unofficial speculation from the moderators.

 

[HardCode]

The moderators do not have a definite explanation.

Well, since you guys are in the line of fire and do the dirty work, I'd assume you would ask Bethesda for a definite explanation. If I were a mod and they said to enforce a rule without an explenation, I'd resign. It's called ethics and honor.

There are a lot of reasons why the Codex may be censored.

Name one that doesn't apply to other sites which aren't censored?

I’ve speculated about this in the past, but I’ll refrain from doing it here. It’s clear that I’ll only be ridiculed for it.

You'd be ridiculed anyway because your post count is 1

To be honest I don’t understand why you feel so passionately about this. As far as I can tell the majority here loathe Oblivion, loathe Bethesda, and loathe their forums . . . so why do you even care about this? If the official TES forums really are full or morons why would you want to advertise your site there?

First off, no one "advertises" the site. People over there link to tons of Oblivion reviews. There is a review here. Codexers point out that review. Bethesda doesn't like it. It's shows bad points about Oblivion. They censor.

They are also afraid that people at TESF will come to learn what a real RPG is, and the shit that they sling isn't RPG material. So their next games won't be able to be dumbed down console FPS/RPG games if people learn what an RPG is.

A lot of people here seem to think there’s some huge anti-Codex conspiracy.

Well, an auto-censor filtering the name is Watergate material.

We also don’t ban people for expressing negative views of the game.

Right, Summer just locks all of the threads, labeling them "trolling". gg

I should point out that purposefully bypassing the auto-censor is a warnable offence, no matter how clever or effective the bypass is.

So have Bethesda grow some balls and put that in the forum rules, clearly and consisely. Something as obscure as censoring an RPG website in a supposed RPG game forum will confuse people.

 

[Vault Dweller]

Well if you guys have an official explanation from the devs I’m a bit confused why people continue to discuss unofficial speculation from the moderators.

Probably that's because there is no sticky thread "what to do when you discover that Bethesda censors RPG Codex?" and when people discover this fact they get confused and start bugging the moderators. Assuming that everyone who complains about it is a member of the Codex is a bit too much.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

I'd honestly like to know why I was banned, if that's possible. I admitted to being a member of the Codex and gave out some constructive criticism, then got into a minor exchange of withering sarcasm with Vipera. None of it was flaming, none of it was spamming (though the latter got slightly spammish, which is why I stopped after a few posts - hardly more spammy than 75% of unwarned OG posts).

 

[Hungry Donner]

Well, since you guys are in the line of fire and do the dirty work, I'd assume you would ask Bethesda for a definite explanation.

When we go out of our way to tell people our explanations are speculative, unofficial, and potentially incorrect I'd assume people wouldn't cast them as official and accurate, but it still happens

We asked for an explanation, we got a partial answer and were told to direct people to the admin. Since people continue to ask about this I figured I'd come here to tell everyone that questions need to be directed to the admin. Conveniently there was a thread about this.

Name one that doesn't apply to other sites which aren't censored?

When we've told people that they can no longer link to their forums (for whatever reasons) they generally respect the decision, or they make the necissary changes so they can post the link. This isn't true of the Codex.

You'd be ridiculed anyway because your post count is 1

It's three now, does that makes me teh 00b3r? :D

First off, no one "advertises" the site.

I've had to remove links from people overtly advertising the site, and often overtly bypassing the auto-censor at the same time.

So have Bethesda grow some balls and put that in the forum rules, clearly and consisely. Something as obscure as censoring an RPG website in a supposed RPG game forum will confuse people.

From the rules, at the top of the section on warnings and bans:

2. What can I get warned for?

There is a pretty extensive list above on the forum rules as well as on the Terms and Conditions. The short list is flaming, trolling, spamming, bypassing the auto censor, posting links to illegal (copyrighted, pirated, etc.) material, talking about illegal activities, and generally anything we deem inappropriate for these forums.

That seems clear and concise to me.

If someone tries linking to the Codex and doesn't realize that it's censored we explain the situation to them - we don't warn them. However some people have purposefully bypassed the auto-censor, knowing full well that we don't allow the site to be discused. That will get you a warning.

Probably that's because there is no sticky thread "what to do when you discover that Bethesda censors RPG Codex?" and when people discover this fact they get confused and start bugging the moderators. Assuming that everyone who complains about it is a member of the Codex is a bit too much.

Some people aren't Codex members, some are.

 

[HardCode]

You should have "tubgirl"ed one of your links to Bethesda in your first post for instant Codex respect.

 

[Drakron]

I think that I been a member of ESF before I was a member of RPG Codex.

As said the policy is they were not responsible for links to other sites, if such links contain questionable material it sould be deleted.

The auto-censor is simply being lazy, I know "The Pirates Bay" (sweedish torrent tracker site) is auto-censored but it serves as a example of how auto-censor does nothing since it can easy be bypassed by tinyurl and even prevents someone from anouncing a mod called Pirate's Bay.

RPG Codex is not a porn site, it makes no sense to simply "rub out" the site by putting the name in the auto-censor, if Bethsoft was really that concerned about URL links they could just disabled then and induce a policy of NOT putting links in message boards.

 

[Hungry Donner]

I'd honestly like to know why I was banned, if that's possible. I admitted to being a member of the Codex and gave out some constructive criticism, then got into a minor exchange of withering sarcasm with Vipera. None of it was flaming, none of it was spamming (though the latter got slightly spammish, which is why I stopped after a few posts - hardly more spammy than 75% of unwarned OG posts).

We can't publically discuss the reason by a ban or warning, but if you e-mail the admin they can tell you. (This is Cow Guru, right?)

 

[Vipera]

I'd honestly like to know why I was banned, if that's possible. I admitted to being a member of the Codex and gave out some constructive criticism, then got into a minor exchange of withering sarcasm with Vipera. None of it was flaming, none of it was spamming (though the latter got slightly spammish, which is why I stopped after a few posts - hardly more spammy than 75% of unwarned OG posts).

I don't remember that. How long ago was it?

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

I'd honestly like to know why I was banned, if that's possible. I admitted to being a member of the Codex and gave out some constructive criticism, then got into a minor exchange of withering sarcasm with Vipera. None of it was flaming, none of it was spamming (though the latter got slightly spammish, which is why I stopped after a few posts - hardly more spammy than 75% of unwarned OG posts).

We can't publically discuss the reason by a ban or warning, but if you e-mail the admin they can tell you. (This is Cow Guru, right?)

Yes. I'll try that, though I don't really expect a response.

I don't remember that. How long ago was it?

Hmmm. About a month or two ago.

 

[MacBone]

Guys, it's not just us. Here's a topic with a post that disparages NWN: http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=581906.

I've got the original and it sucks. I've heard the expansions are good, and there were some great modules, but just the original campaign is awful.

It's like, imagine a more slow-paced Diablo with everything that made Diablo enjoyable taken out, and you have NWN.

What he said, Hordes is the only official campaign that didn't suck balls.
Of course, all the online stuff was crap just like anything else made up by "modders" or "level designers" or whatever those dorks like to call themselves.

Your opinion.

Stop the flame-baiting and trolling posts. If you want to discuss player made modules, fine. If all you intend to do is attempt to start an argument, please find another place to post. I suggest the Mods forum at Bioware.

If you want to state your opinion, find another site, eh?

 

[Texas Red]

Very well, I may be able to understand why you censor the link to Rpgcodex. Why the heck must you bann and lock everything away that even mentions it? Is the Bethstapo delusional about the shock sites? Truly, they are not posted much at all. Those not retarded went over to the so called anti-shock sites(Vaan).

Perhaps, to keep the American kids safe from becoming schizophrenic maniacs, you should filter away any words that would even remotely remind of sex and death? Hmm?

The conspiray theories... what must people think when you auto-change the words "fanboy" or "Oblivon sucks"? Thats... I dont have any words for this. How can a professional game developing/publishing company do this?

Anyway, this must be brought to the attention of others. I would enjoy it very much to see it as a news at Gamespot or other such. I am but a humble nobody and wont be listened to but somebody else, however...

I also dont really believe that the Toddmeister is afraid of the codex. Honestly, how much do you think influence the codex has?

 

[Elhoim]

2. What can I get warned for?

There is a pretty extensive list above on the forum rules as well as on the Terms and Conditions. The short list is flaming, trolling, spamming, bypassing the auto censor, posting links to illegal (copyrighted, pirated, etc.) material, talking about illegal activities, and generally anything we deem inappropriate for these forums.

It is clear that trying to bypass the autocensor is worth a warning, but what is not clear why the site is in the autocensor in the first place. Perhaps it fits in the "and generally anything we deem inappropriate for these forums" part.

BTW, thanks for checking by.

 

[Texas Red]

I'd honestly like to know why I was banned, if that's possible. I admitted to being a member of the Codex and gave out some constructive criticism, then got into a minor exchange of withering sarcasm with Vipera. None of it was flaming, none of it was spamming (though the latter got slightly spammish, which is why I stopped after a few posts - hardly more spammy than 75% of unwarned OG posts).

We can't publically discuss the reason by a ban or warning, but if you e-mail the admin they can tell you. (This is Cow Guru, right?)

Why is there such a stupid rule, anyway? The Bethstapo doesnt want too many topics popping out and demanding answers, doesnt it? I cant see any other reason for it.

And messaging an admin? Please, you *never* explain or give some meaningless one-lined reply. Even if you are wrong and gave a warning because of some misunderstanding that was confirmed by others, you just stop replying or do something else to avoid taking responciblity for your wrong decision.

 

[OverrideB1]

@HungryDonner

The problem is, you guys (the mods) are the official face of the ESF. You are the ones that lock posts, you are the ones that censor/delete posts linking to the Codex. Naturally, people are going to want to know why you made that decision. If you can't be arsed to ask the devs why you're doing things so you can provide some official explaination instead of wildly speculating, you've got to expect flak.

If you've asked and not got an answer, why are you still moderating the site? It's obvious, given that scenario, that you are being manipulated into doing the devs dirty-work for them so that they don't have to explain themselves. I've modded sites and I know that, if I was asked to do something like that by the site owners, I'd damn' well better know the reason why I was doing what I was doing.

Which leaves us with a couple of inescapable conclusions. Either you guys do know the offical reason and are just too chicken-shit to come out and say why, or you guys are so dazzled by the fact that you have 'Teh Powah' that you're just blindly following orders. And that has always turned out so well for people in the past...

 

[Texas Red]

@HungryDonner

Which leaves us with a couple of inescapable conclusions. Either you guys do know the offical reason and are just too chicken-shit to come out and say why, or you guys are so dazzled by the fact that you have 'Teh Powah' that you're just blindly following orders. And that has always turned out so well for people in the past...

No sane person would waste away his life moderating a gaming forum. And besides, I once asked if moderators feel guilt if they have to ban an important member of the community. Summer answered and she started with the sentence *when she is told to ban someone*. Told by who? Oh, I believe the moderators are just on the pay. The fact that all of the moderators constantly praise Oblivion is another supporting fact to this theory.

 

[Hungry Donner]

It is clear that trying to bypass the autocensor is worth a warning, but what is not clear why the site is in the autocensor in the first place. Perhaps it fits in the "and generally anything we deem inappropriate for these forums" part.

Perhaps we need a clearer statement at the beginning of that thread that rules questions should be e-mail/PMed to the admin/mods.

(as such, I've just posted something about this in our mod/admin forum)

BTW, thanks for checking by.

Your welcome, I'm glad I stopped by.