Why Video Game Designers Are Missing The Mark With Women

[tunguska]

Funny thread. This would be a flamefest if it weren't for the fact that I assume men outnumber women here 1000 to 1.

Men are just as sexually objectified in games as women are. The difference is that unlike women men are interested in playing the game, not fixated on what they are wearing.

This. And +1 to the PS:T reference. TNO was musclebound and cut and practically naked. But she's probably never played PS:T and never will because it doesn't let you choose your wardrobe. Also, I don't think many men would object to playing a female character in an RPG, but if women can't have a female character they are deeply offended and probably will avoid the game.

I do have a problem with the way female characters are presented in RPGs though. A human female with an 18/00 strength is absurd. Maybe if you are talking about a different species, like dwarves for instance it might be okay though. If you are not going to make females weaker then I don't see the point in having them at all. Also, I would give them a nice boost to their charisma when interacting with male characters.

BTW, I do approve of the fact that there are *any* women playing computer games at all. Women from my generation wouldn't be caught dead playing any kind of a computer game. From what I have heard girls today even watch porn. Amazing how much society norms can change in just 1 or 2 generations.

 

[oneself]

Of course the fact that she's writing this on "Geeks are Sexy" kind of defeats the whole point of her article

 

[Site Feedback]

Of course the fact that she's writing this on "Geeks are Sexy" kind of defeats the whole point of her article

kind of??? LOL IT COMPLETEL DOES, donut let women make tyou timid!!!---here's why
because sexy=ens tits jiggly--->thereforce geeks are sexy does is not enshrianing taternate idear of huety IT IS HYPOCSIAY kind of

Frankling, I think we should mauve away fron fucking aomwen altogehter???? It is much muoare heterosexual for emn to fuckl men in the asholes. LOL NO WHINNYING (except as intesrtion)

 

[Paperclip]

I haven't read the article but I just wanna say that when I was still playing MMOs, I found that female players did dress their characters to look pretty and sexy when the options are available, such as buying in-game accessories and clothing.

 

[Lingwe]

Guys, think about this. What would it be like if you logged on to your favorite game, and every piece of armor your warrior tried on was nothing more than a metal jock strap and a halter top? Sure, I might not mind looking at it—but you probably wouldn’t find it that thrilling.

Speak for yourself...or rather speak for the straights. I'd love to see a few more Xandir style characters in the games I play.

 

[StrangeCase]

Also, I don't think many men would object to playing a female character in an RPG

Oh and I'll tell you what, playing a female character is the only way to survive Mass Effect. Jennifer Hale's voicework is way better than anything her male counterpart pukes out.

 

[Jaesun]

Male Shepard's voice was fucking hot. WTF are you talking about.

 

[M_I_C_K_E_Y_M_O_U_S_E]

I do have a problem with the way female characters are presented in RPGs though. A human female with an 18/00 strength is absurd. Maybe if you are talking about a different species, like dwarves for instance it might be okay though. If you are not going to make females weaker then I don't see the point in having them at all. Also, I would give them a nice boost to their charisma when interacting with male characters.

I can't think of any games other than Arcanum and Mount and Blade that did anything like this. It is interesting to note though, that many mainstream RPGs (Dragon Age, Baldurs Gate, PS:T) have far fewer female fighter characters, and the ones that do fight are often weaker, with few exceptions.

 

[The Wizard]

whoreswhoreswhoreswhoreswhores

Male Shepard's voice was fucking hot not so bad. WTF are you talking about.

seriously. the only thing more annyoing than mass effect itself is people bitching abut male shepard voice and the constant licking of hales boots.

 

[Felix]

The two most popular Japanese porn game heroines of the past decade:

They sure love their gender bending, but traps are more popular now, Japanese nerds sure are gay.

It is male and has a dick

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

It is interesting to note though, that many mainstream RPGs (Dragon Age, Baldurs Gate, PS:T) have far fewer female fighter characters, and the ones that do fight are often weaker, with few exceptions.

The only cNPC in Baldur's Gate that has 18/00 STR is female.

I hate the whole treating women like sluts thingie in some cRPGs.
I hate armour that exposes as much of body as possible because it kills the point of having armour in the first place.
I hate that often it's impossible to actually play a slut. Just look as a slut. It's not like the game world reacts to it.

Also being able to roleplay as a conservative woman. Sexy preiestesses being the norm is just boggling

Well, besides the clothing a lot of cRPGs allow roleplaying only a "conservative" (wait, fighter women are conservative?) woman. They don't allow to roleplay sluts. You can't actually use seduction to gain advantage in these games or just sleep around for fun.

 

[spectre]

Well, besides the clothing a lot of cRPGs allow roleplaying only a "conservative" (wait, fighter women are conservative?) woman. They don't allow to roleplay sluts. You can't actually use seduction to gain advantage in these games or just sleep around for fun.

Reminds me of the female playthrough of Fallout 2.

Unfortunately, the whole problem is that for years target audience for games was always juvenile boys, game designers and artists being mentally the same. Now the world has moved on, the 15 year olds are now twentysomething but there is precious little designers who would cater to their needs. Because it is much safer to stick with the tried target than switch to a new one.
This is why we bitch and moan. This is why we fight.

 

[Korgan]

I saw a woman the other day. Terrible creatures, I avoid them whenever I can.

 

[Norfleet]

I do have a problem with the way female characters are presented in RPGs though. A human female with an 18/00 strength is absurd.

Well, maybe not ABSURD, but probably not what one would consider SEXY, since she'd look like a former East German wrestler, which is not what people associate with "sexy".

 

[mondblut]

vs.

The top one gets laid more by a landslide.

Objectification-cockslapification my ass. All hail boobs!

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Well, besides the clothing a lot of cRPGs allow roleplaying only a "conservative" (wait, fighter women are conservative?) woman. They don't allow to roleplay sluts. You can't actually use seduction to gain advantage in these games or just sleep around for fun.

Reminds me of the female playthrough of Fallout 2.

Unfortunately, the whole problem is that for years target audience for games was always juvenile boys, game designers and artists being mentally the same. Now the world has moved on, the 15 year olds are now twentysomething but there is precious little designers who would cater to their needs. Because it is much safer to stick with the tried target than switch to a new one.
This is why we bitch and moan. This is why we fight.

The problem isn't that it's juvenile. Fallout 2 was juvenile but I liked the way it treated sex. Rance is juvenile but I like it. These games deliver.
The problem is that usually it isn't designed for our satisfaction or for satisfaction of 15 year old boys. What they are doing isn't juvenile. They aren't thinking, "I like sex, let's put a lot of it in game". It's a cynical corporate trick. They want to make their games addictive. They are a bunch of fucking corporate cock teases.
Just look at the effects of having loading screens with an elven whore in NWN.

One thing that pissed me off in Baldur's Gate series is how there are tons of moaning whores that can't be slept with and how female characters get plate armour with a plunging neckline and mail without leg and arm protection and stuff like that while at the same time the PC isn't noticed by most of people who comment on physical attractiveness of female cNPCs. These games are just fucking teases. They don't deliver. Hell, what was the point of putting all that stuff on these tiny asexual avatars?
Not to mention all these fucked up MMOs with their lingerie armour.

I do have a problem with the way female characters are presented in RPGs though. A human female with an 18/00 strength is absurd.

Well, maybe not ABSURD, but probably not what one would consider SEXY, since she'd look like a former East German wrestler, which is not what people associate with "sexy".

Strongest women are weaker than strongest men.

 

[Luzur]

Of course the fact that she's writing this on "Geeks are Sexy" kind of defeats the whole point of her article

kind of??? LOL IT COMPLETEL DOES, donut let women make tyou timid!!!---here's why
because sexy=ens tits jiggly--->thereforce geeks are sexy does is not enshrianing taternate idear of huety IT IS HYPOCSIAY kind of

Frankling, I think we should mauve away fron fucking aomwen altogehter???? It is much muoare heterosexual for emn to fuckl men in the asholes. LOL NO WHINNYING (except as intesrtion)

calm down lassie, what are you trying to tell us?

 

[laclongquan]

Unrelated observation:

Strong woman characters in books, films, games - I like.
But in real life its really hard to cope with them. It feels as if I cant let my guard down like with men...

You let your guard down among women? We are not even talking about strong or weak here. IF you think a weak woman cant fuck you up you got surprises coming.

Never let your guard down if you can help it.

Sometime you cant help it, though.

Cestlavie!

 

[Stalin]

 

[deuxhero]

snip

Who is the 2nd chick? She looks hot (well the right wrist looks a little ackward).

 

[Azrael the cat]

Geez it"s not rocket science (or a fucking humanities major). Train lots more women designers. Hire them. Let them design games. Then you get games for all sorts of women - all sorts of PEOPLE - will like, with regard to their presentation of women: games for women who want to be sarah jane smith from Dr Who (in her early 'feminist girl scout' companion to the doctor days during the 70s, not her current kids tv show) ala The Longest Journey, Dreamfall and Beyond Good and Evil, games for women who want their avatars to look like conan extras, games for women who want their avatars to look like every guy and a hefty number of girls would die to sleep with them, avatars for women who want to be completely faceless or robotozied or de-beautified to emphaisse a character point (shodan-power, or her intellect or something else), games for women who want to run around topless on Canadian trains for equal rights.

(tis true, it actually happened when a group of women got pissed off that, unlike Europe where during summer the girls move en masse from the office blocks to the city park to sunbake naked due liberal views on nudity, in Canada it was illegal for women to walk around topless, they started riding traints topless til charged, and then appealed it to Canada's high court on discrimination grounds - i.e. guys can go topless, so why can't they - and WON. Fucking awesome. Recently there was a story about how some 20 year old was getting so pissed off by heir neigbour's 5 year old kid playing with his toys in the street early each Sunday morning that whenever he was load enough to wake him, she strode up and down the street topless until his parents stopped letting him play outside at that hour. Naturally the protestors (there was a photo published here in Australia) were all thin and young, when the 'freedom' to have your tits out is the centrepiece of feminist achievement,)

My point is - don't debate at ALL about how guys should go around desigining games for women, or about how games should attract women at all. Let women design games that they'd like to play. Of course, attracting women to the industry is the hard part, but that road's been trampled many times before - deliberately hire high proportions for just a few years (yeah it's affirmative action, but exteremely temporary and with commercial aims), so you can retain some women to use as role models, lecturers/teachers and recruitment faces to show that it isn't an all-male industry (most women I know fucking hate being the only woman in the office - just like after the 1 week it takes for the novelty of 'hey, I'm the only guy in the office, I can crack on to everyone without competition' ears off, every guy I've known in the same situation has also hated it, and they inevitably change jobs). Then make sure the job is woman friendly: provide childcare access (if you're a small firm, do a deal with other small firms and a private child care centre), good pregrnancy leave, make sure you don't stop promoting them as soon as they get married or pregnant, make sure you teach them the same skills, and hold them to the same expectations/standards as the guys, etc. Again, it ain't rocket science - it's just like every other fucking industry that's dealth with this before.

Imagine how fucking condascending it would be if someone from a law firm - even a woman - wrote an artice saying 'this is how we can keeo more female clients - stop undressing them with our eyes, cut out the dirty jokes, stop staring at their legs/rear, don't flirt on business time' - even if every single item was true it would still be fucking condascending, because the real approach is just to hire some female lawyers, treat them well, and let them figure it out.

 

[Site Feedback]

calm down lassie, what are you trying to tell us?

hi luzur how is it going??? we sould hang out sometime????

 

[Azrael the cat]

Unrelated observation:

Strong woman characters in books, films, games - I like.
But in real life its really hard to cope with them. It feels as if I cant let my guard down like with men...

In all seriousness, go there. You won't EVER want to go back. Strong women - and I mean genuinely emotional strong women, not women who just get aggressive due to emotional problems and hence quickly turn weak and sulky or tantrumy if you don't play ball - make the best girlfriends, wives and even the best one-night-stands. They're the girls who have thought long and hard about how much sex they want to be having, so they aren't feeling guilty while having it. They're also MUCH more likely to be sufficiently comfortable with their sexuality to look up porn and masturbate. That means much more kinky sex, and a girl who orgasms more easily. A girl that orgasms more easily means that you're getting laid a LOT more often - probably at every opportunity she gets if you're both around 17-21.

As a girlfriend, they're less likely to have emotional hangups about who they want to be. Which means no sudden personality swapping next time they meet a new group of friends or change uni courses, It also means that there's much less time with them crying about their insecurities and much more time with them calling up asking 'hey, you up for going to the pub and getting drunk / going raving / having sex all night?'

As a wife, they're still likely to be more stable and have thought through the whole thinkg of whether they want to get married, They aren't married because they simply expected to one day, or because it was their life's dream to walk down the isle (and now that it's over they're feeling rather hollow with what to do next - trust me, I've seen this with friend's wives). No, they're likely to be with you through thick and thin because they married out of a conscious decision that they wanted to spend the rest of their lives living with and fucking only you. They made that choice knowing they had other options, and so they aren't going to suddenly wake up to those optoins 10 years in (again, I've seen that disaster in friends' marriages). They're also MUCH more likely to be earning good money, supporting your gaming habit, and demanding good sex, which means having lots more sex.

Trust me, breaking your aversion to strong women will be one of the best things you will EVER do.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

Well, besides the clothing a lot of cRPGs allow roleplaying only a "conservative" (wait, fighter women are conservative?) woman. They don't allow to roleplay sluts. You can't actually use seduction to gain advantage in these games or just sleep around for fun.

Reminds me of the female playthrough of Fallout 2.

Unfortunately, the whole problem is that for years target audience for games was always juvenile boys, game designers and artists being mentally the same. Now the world has moved on, the 15 year olds are now twentysomething but there is precious little designers who would cater to their needs.

What makes you think that twentysomethings does not have juvenile tastes?

Ridiculous displays of macho-power and extreme objectification of females is pretty much exactly what twentysomethings are known for. Not to mention an undying belief in ones own ego, which is why they wouldn't ever admit that gaming is in fact a p. stupid and juvenile waste of time.

 

[The Wizard]

snip

Who is the 2nd chick? She looks hot (well the right wrist looks a little ackward).

joan of arc/jeanne d'Arc.