Why Video Game Designers Are Missing The Mark With Women

[J_C]

What the fuck?! This anti-women bullshit is ridiculous, and this is coming from a man. It's like the whole Codex is living in the 19th century, when males were considered superior.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Sure, you like things to get complicated and we do not, and that's why there are a lot of girls who did play and did won Obsidian and Schizm, while you people are playing Fallout. Or, more like, re-playing Fallout. Cute. Also, videogames are heroic shit. Also, people who mostly plays single player games with no score talks about competing and exceling, sure. Are you better at Planescape than VD, sucka? Go play Shmups if you want to compete and excel, moron. And then, curiously, there seems to be a much higher girl to boy ratio playing Shmups than playing nerdtastic genres.

The highest girl to boy ratio that I saw so far on internet gaming forums so far is on forums for Biowhore games, which are precisely about the stuff that you're criticizing about the Codex.

Did you miss that most modern games are about gruff and sweaty ugly soldiers and retarded space marines bonding with their male friends while blood flies everywhere?

Actually, these games are about getting the kick from shooting stuff/competing/thinking up ways to defeat an opponent while avoiding the downsides of joining the army like endless boredom, having to live with retards, having retarded leaders, sweat, poor hygiene, getting wounded/maimed/killed, getting forced to participate in illegal wars and thingies and stuffies like that.

Oh wait... modern?
Are they really making games about stuff like that? I thought that most of modern games are mostly corridor shooters, not Sims: Soldiers?

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

What the fuck?! This anti-women bullshit is ridiculous, and this is coming from a man. It's like the whole Codex is living in the 19th century, when males were considered superior.

So, the local morons spout one generalisation. Now you spout another? haha...

I think the both of you are idiots to be honest. On one hand, we have the rampant, female hating basement dwellers. On the other, silly fragile little flowers that get all worked up over what the basement haters are spewing.

Priceless.

 

[Jack]

In any case, all of that would be awesome if it was, to begin with, true that girls don't play videogames, while usually the only thing that's true is that usually girls don't play the nerdtastic games most of you seem to like. And I refer to nerdtastic as in NUMBERS!, not as in hard. If, and a big If it is, you had, like, I don't know, done your research before opening your retarded mouth instead of believing you know shit about anything you would have discovered there are genres with a big presence of girls, in general, and particular games with an even bigger.

Nerdtastic, says the RPGCodex regular.

Since the early arcade days women have been underrepresented in gaming. That's a fact, no matter how you look at it.
I somehow doubt that today's games would be any better if they targeted socially awkward females with nothing but frustrations and failures to cope with, such as yourself.
I'm not drawn to either side of the spectrum, I'd rather play "nerdtastic" games than Teenage boy power trip #9000 or Romance the brooding elf: the social adventure.

Now I didn't make much of a point, but neither did you. There really aren't any sides or that much to discuss regarding the lack of female gamers.
It's a bloody time waster, a hobby. I agree that modern games suck in numerous ways, but what can any of us do about it?
But did get some things correct, arcade games in general are quite popular amongst both genders.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Feminist aproved:

KOTOR III the Sith Ladies.

Except that many feminist believe in stuff like power of sexual manipulation and want to be able to use it in any situation.

 

[Black Cat]

The highest girl to boy ratio that I saw so far on internet gaming forums so far is on forums for Biowhore games, which are precisely about the stuff that you're criticizing about the Codex.

Actually, the highest girl to boy ratio is on MMO games, on comunities about japanese games, and on forums about adventure games both of the classic kind and the myst-like kind, first, and then on places like Bioware or the ESF.

Then, I wasn't talking about being on a given forum but about playing a given game or genre, though those numbers are easier to get about MMOs given having to pay means having to give your real contact information and most seriously competitive guilds, and many primarily social guilds, now require voice chat as a requisite to join as it encourages being civil and speaking like a fucking person instead of going netspeak. Are you really surprised, like, girls that enjoy classic role playing games would prefer not to join Codexia, just like girls that enjoy some FPS prefer people not to know they are girls when playing with randoms? Just look at this thread, or at the maturity of most guys when talking about girls. Also, are you really surprised girls who enjoy Bioware games do join their forums while girls who enjoy classic role playing games do not join Codexia? Again, compare civility levels and general feeling of the place. I have managed to get several friends who actually enjoy a couple hardcore games every now and then to lurk for news and the like, but join? LOL. Good one.

And I was, uhm, criticizing something about the Codex? I was criticizing mostly about what that random guy said about girls not enjoying videogames because they are about competition and challenge when we are on the bloody Codex, which doesn't precisely plays competitive games to begin with and whose favorite games are kind of devoid of challenge to begin with. So, girls don't play videogames because they, according to some random retard, don't enjoy challenge and competition, but Codex is full of jerks who play easy games for their stories? Talk about being a moron.

Also, what is this shit about girls not being competitive, to begin with? Most of you come across as retards with no experience talking about their idealized imaginations of what girls are, and I hope you are put through the social hell that's going to a private girls-only school on your next life. You will discover how fast does shit gets real, o hardcore manly man.

Back on the other topic, truth is most games are made for a not very bright, completely unsubtle, unimaginative, banal teen male market. That has nothing to do with being challenging or competitive, but about them being the most easy to satisfy. Put some blood, some pew pew, some explosions, some T&A, and they are happy, drooling bastards who can, at least for a time, enjoy their fantasies about being worth a damn. Not even you guys want to play that crap, and most of you aren't precisely refined and subtle creatures. Why should a girl?

Oh wait... modern?
Are they really making games about stuff like that? I thought that most of modern games are mostly corridor shooters, not Sims: Soldiers?

Who said anything about Sims: Soldiers? I'm happy you would want to play a game about joining the army, but I was actually speaking of shitty action games about vulgar macho characters going pew pew on things that die like bursting bubbles of blood, on ugly and boring stages, while having vulgar macho emotional moments as they chainsaw martians to death, or as they shoot nazis, towelheads, east europeans, or koreans. Or whatever it is games allow you to do now. The fun!

Nerdtastic, says the RPGCodex regular.

Yes. I enjoying a certain kind of game doesn't make it perfect, not any less nerdtastic. I can enjoy nerdtastic games, just like I can enjoy OCD friendly shmups, more twisted than it is healthy myst-clones, and otome dating sims. I know, I blew your mind there. Someone actually likes a wide variety of games! Horrorifications!

But did get some things correct, arcade games in general are quite popular amongst both genders.

Which actually is pretty revealing about challenge and competition having nothing to do with it, but style and design philosophy.

And I wasn't trying to make a point. I was just raging.

 

[Azrael the cat]

What the fuck?! This anti-women bullshit is ridiculous, and this is coming from a man. It's like the whole Codex is living in the 19th century, when males were considered superior.

Yeah, the Codex spews this kind of stuff out every now and then - sort a reminder that these might be people you share gaming tastes with, but that's about it. It's kind of scary that you'd get this many like that in one set of forums that doesn't really have a clear rationale for sexism, it isn't like it's a porn site or a hate site (well, maybe the latter...). It seriously isn't worth arguing with them over, though - either they're a bunch of kiddies who still think that stuff is witty, or they're trying to be deliberately offensive, or they seriously have so little contact with women that they find that stuff plausible, or they're all the creepy old guy who smells really bad and hangs around the uni tavern occasionally spouting something incomprehensible. Just fucking weird, and more than a bit creepy.

 

[Commissar Draco]

Feminist aproved:

KOTOR III the Sith Ladies.

Except that many feminist believe in stuff like power of sexual manipulation and want to be able to use it in any situation.

I thought more of feminazi puritan kind of feminists who hate womenfolk more than men. Mostly becouse they're ugly hairy dykes who deep inside want to be men. Sometimes they revert to pisslam to be able to harras pretty women who want to be true women and know how to use their charms "against " us. I know it's complicated.

 

[J_C]

What the fuck?! This anti-women bullshit is ridiculous, and this is coming from a man. It's like the whole Codex is living in the 19th century, when males were considered superior.

So, the local morons spout one generalisation. Now you spout another? haha...

I think the both of you are idiots to be honest. On one hand, we have the rampant, female hating basement dwellers. On the other, silly fragile little flowers that get all worked up over what the basement haters are spewing.

Priceless.

Believe me, it takes much more for me to get worked up. I'm just amazed by the stupid attitude lots of people have here.

 

[Jack]

Nerdtastic, says the RPGCodex regular.

Yes. I enjoying a certain kind of game doesn't make it perfect, not any less nerdtastic. I can enjoy nerdtastic games, just like I can enjoy OCD friendly shmups, more twisted than it is healthy myst-clones, and otome dating sims. I know, I blew your mind there. Someone actually likes a wide variety of games! Horrorifications!

It did sound to me like you were saying that RPGs were inferior to SHMUPS and that dating games for female neckbeards are superior to the male equivalent which reeks of misandry, but perhaps I just misread that.
There is really no need to get upset about this whole genre issue, miss, I was merely pointing out that even if the roles were reversed things wouldn't have been much different.

But did get some things correct, arcade games in general are quite popular amongst both genders.

Which actually is pretty revealing about challenge and competition having nothing to do with it, but style and design philosophy.
And I wasn't trying to make a point. I was just raging.

I think that the myth that women aren't as good players as men is because of the logical lack of good players, which is a result of there being few of them to begin with.
Plus the fact that they often are indistinguishable from men in many cases, you'll never know if the player that just fragged you were a female, male or even a tranny.

I really didn't feel any hatred for women except the author of the article in this thread, but I haven't read all of it yet.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Also, are you really surprised girls who enjoy Bioware games do join their forums while girls who enjoy classic role playing games do not join Codexia? Again, compare civility levels and general feeling of the place. I have managed to get several friends who actually enjoy a couple hardcore games every now and then to lurk for news and the like, but join? LOL. Good one.

"Civility" usually means censorship, intolerance and common passive aggressive bullying.

Also, most of wargaming forums that I saw have civility and majority of posters is mature, married men and still I don't see any women there.

And I was, uhm, criticizing something about the Codex? I was criticizing mostly about what that random guy said about girls not enjoying videogames because they are about competition and challenge when we are on the bloody Codex, which doesn't precisely plays competitive games to begin with and whose favorite games are kind of devoid of challenge to begin with. So, girls don't play videogames because they, according to some random retard, don't enjoy challenge and competition, but Codex is full of jerks who play easy games for their stories? Talk about being a moron.

IIRC you often criticized the Codex for not being hardcore gamers.

Also, what is this shit about girls not being competitive, to begin with? Most of you come across as retards with no experience talking about their idealized imaginations of what girls are, and I hope you are put through the social hell that's going to a private girls-only school on your next life. You will discover how fast does shit gets real, o hardcore manly man.

What's wrong, Black Cat? Why private girls-only schools tend to be a social hell? Is it because girls tend to be socially awkward losers?

Oh wait... modern?
Are they really making games about stuff like that? I thought that most of modern games are mostly corridor shooters, not Sims: Soldiers?

Who said anything about Sims: Soldiers? I'm happy you would want to play a game about joining the army, but I was actually speaking of shitty action games about vulgar macho characters going pew pew on things that die like bursting bubbles of blood, on ugly and boring stages, while having vulgar macho emotional moments as they chainsaw martians to death, or as they shoot nazis, towelheads, east europeans, or koreans. Or whatever it is games allow you to do now. The fun!

http://www.theonion.com/video/ultrareal ... iti,14382/

 

[Black Cat]

"Civility" usually means censorship, intolerance and common passive aggressive bullying.

So? I never said the Codex should change, just that you shouldn't be surprised if people who values civility and proper behaviour, regardless of gender, over whatever it is the Codex values prefers not to join comunities like this, or random gaming comunities full of loud and retarded plebs, and the few who actually do try to be sure they can't be linked to the place by any real acquaintance outside of the closest to save their real life reputations of being undone.

And what does that about wargaming forums have to do with anything? Most girls don't like wargaming and consider it to be boring and pointless, sure. What's wrong with that? Most guys do, too. In general wargaming is the very definition of a niche inside a niche.

IIRC you often criticized the Codex for not being hardcore gamers.

No, back then I did criticize the Codex for not being hardcore gamers while actually acting like they were the elitest elite to ever crawl out of the elite seas and talking like the games they play are out of the intellectual capabilities of all but an elite few when they are actually pretty easy games whose lack of popularity comes mostly of being huge time investments while expecting the player to acquire information that's useless outside the game and learning a system whose understanding in no way relates to an useful skill or knowledge other than slightly and indirectly, and said that if you are going to be elitist about it at least play something that actually requires a great amount of effort, skill, and dedication to be good at instead of just learning a bunch of crap that's useless outside the game.

Again, I never, just to be sure, said everyone should only play things that are hardcore. Not by a long shot, actually, as evidenced by me loving things like Armen Noir and Danzai no Maria while still being able to enjoy hardcore old skool dungeon crawlers (or at least used to be able to enjoy them, adolescence is having some ugly effects on my gaming skill and habits ). I just expect people who decides entertainment is serious business to be able to out-GIL, like, GIL and out-Kefit bloody Kefit, otherwise just shut the fuck up and play games without thinking they make you cool or better than people that like different shit that you do, or that you playing that is an evidence against gender equality or whatever the fuck the retards where saying.

And in which way does that relate to this topic, in any case, or to what I said about this topic? I have spent quite a lot of time on VN, in general, and Otome, in particular, comunities, and I never met any girl, nor boy, that had the retarded attitude of As I like those games instead of those other games I am smarter that the Codex, in particular, and role players, in general, have while doing nothing at all but nerding over unimportant shit and playing easy games, so whether or not they are hardcore gamers never became a topic of any importance, and I don't care as they don't go around trying to convince the universe of their greatness while playing Fallout and Torment. The same happened on bullet hell comunities, for example, and while they have quite a lot of inner competition, both real and friendly, they never started going about how everyone but them was a lesser being, while they actually have the bloody right to do so given most people lack both the skill to do so and the will to develop such skill.

http://www.theonion.com/video/ultrareal ... iti,14382/

That made me smile.

It did sound to me like you were saying that RPGs were inferior to SHMUPS and that dating games for female neckbeards are superior to the male equivalent which reeks of misandry, but perhaps I just misread that.

Just a misunderstanding, then. :3

And at least I personally believe Saya No Uta to be one of the most bloody beautiful love stories on videogame form, so I really have nothing against the male equivalent when it isn't just random porn with a threadbare excuse linking it together, and there's actually a plot worthy of being told and characters worthy of relating to.

There is really no need to get upset about this whole genre issue, miss

Lyric Suite and his gang have that effect on me, I'm sorry.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Maybe if females weren't so fucking useless...

 

[Black Cat]

Maybe if females weren't so fucking useless...

Said he who made a thousand valuable contributions to human society and culture, yeah.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

"Civility" usually means censorship, intolerance and common passive aggressive bullying.

So?

It means that it's a non-value.

and the few who actually do try to be sure they can't be linked to the place by any real acquaintance outside of the closest to save their real life reputations of being undone.

That sounds... alien.

Maybe if females weren't so fucking useless...

Says the guy with 5939 posts and no patron tag .

 

[BelisariuS.F]

Most girls don't like wargaming and consider it to be boring and pointless, sure.

I'm always amused by the "pointless" argument. If someone considers some form of entertainment pointless, then (s)he considers every form of entertainment pointless, also entertainment that (s)he likes.

 

[Brotherman Bill]

I randomly found this thread while googling stuff about Baldur's Gate... It made me feel sick, but I kept reading, hoping there would be some kind of backlash. But, with a couple notable exceptions, it's mostly people spewing hate against women and congratulating each other about it.

I had no idea the online gaming culture was so full of misogyny. Don't people have mothers, sisters, wives, or daughters? Would they ever say these things to them? Where is all this viciousness coming from? Just reading this thread makes me feel less safe in the world.

TROLLO LOLLO LOLLO LO

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Believe me, it takes much more for me to get worked up. I'm just amazed by the stupid attitude lots of people have here.

Why are you surprised? The main contributors to the fem hatred here are also the same types that spew the Joo hatred, the Nigger hatred, the (insert virtually anything else) hatred. They quite obviously hate the world, hate their place in the world and enjoy vomiting this hatred onto the Codex...because they can. You can tell they have virtually no experience in the subject matter just by what they say.

Look at the main contributors;

Lyric Suite, the great philosopher who has barely read any of the classic works of literature.

Higher Game, the obese hater that thinks about picking up boys in truckstop restrooms.

nomask, the welfare bludger that dreams of trannies excreting stool onto his chest.

No, no...laugh if you must, but don't take these types seriously. Pity them. Feel sorry for them. They will hate you even more for it, and it will cause even more drama than attempting to debate them in a proper form.

 

[Black Cat]

I'm always amused by the "pointless" argument. If someone considers some form of entertainment pointless, then (s)he considers every form of entertainment pointless, also entertainment that (s)he likes.

Uhm, no. I did not say Wargaming is pointless, but that it is pointless for me and for those I was talking about, those being all other girls and most guys I have ever met. Given the entire point of entertainment is to entertain if a given form of entertainment doesn't entertain me it is, for me, pointless, regardless of how much it entertains you as you being entertained is of no direct consequence for me. I did not say anything about those that enjoy it, other than mentioning the fact is it a very niche activity, nor anything about how they should stop doing it, for I not care if they play their wargames or not. I just said from the perspective of my own enjoyment, and that of the people on my immediate context, Wargaming is a pointless and useless activity, as it does not entertain me, or them, and given I was talking about them to begin with...

Which is quite diferent to saying wargaming is pointless, therefore entertainment is not a valid function or objetive.

It means that it's a non-value.

Civility is a value in itself, as it is basicaly a concept given worth by a certain context, and the very idea means nothing but having courtesy and politeness as guide and measure above all, or most, other things, and having those things that are usually considered to be a breach to either be, more or less, implicitly outlawed. Censorship, intolerance, and passive aggressive behaviour are, in the end, part of all social contexts, as the very idea of a social value imply you must censure certain actions and thoughts in yourself and criticize those in others while trying not to lose your own good standing and posture. For good or bad every even slightly socialized individual must cope with censorship, intolerance, and passive aggressive behaviour and is prepared to do so, while not everyone is willing to cope with the kind of openly hostile and direct behaviour that would not take place in any real social setting, and would actually be considered as extremely lacking in politeness in most.

That sounds... alien.

Myself, I find alien the idea no one here seems to be able to relate to that.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Lyric Suite, the great philosopher who has barely read any of the classic works of literature.

Actually, i've already went through the entire edition of works by Plato. I was a late comer to philosophy, but i'm gaining ground, with or without my illness. Either way, since philosophy is essentially self-referential, you won't learn anything new by reading philosophical works, assuming you have already formed your own conclusions regarding a particular subject. Schopenhauer himself warned against reading too many books precisely because true knowledge cannot be acquired by proxy: you have to figure shit out on your own. Even Plato hinted that we are all born with the same capacity for knowledge. Knowledge is already within us, we just kinda of forgot about it. This explains why I, Schopenhauer, Weininger and even Elder George arrived at the same conclusion regarding women all independently from each other.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

It means that it's a non-value.

Civility is a value in itself, as it is basicaly a concept given worth by a certain context, and the very idea means nothing but having courtesy and politeness as guide and measure above all, or most, other things, and having those things that are usually considered to be a breach to either be, more or less, implicitly outlawed. Censorship, intolerance, and passive aggressive behaviour are, in the end, part of all social contexts, as the very idea of a social value imply you must censure certain actions and thoughts in yourself and criticize those in others while trying not to lose your own good standing and posture. For good or bad every even slightly socialized individual must cope with censorship, intolerance, and passive aggressive behaviour and is prepared to do so, while not everyone is willing to cope with the kind of openly hostile and direct behaviour that would not take place in any real social setting, and would actually be considered as extremely lacking in politeness in most.

If you interpret it that way, practically no internet forum is civil.

That sounds... alien.

Myself, I find alien the idea no one here seems to be able to relate to that.

It probably has something to do with us not having to go through shit like this:

Also, what is this shit about girls not being competitive, to begin with? Most of you come across as retards with no experience talking about their idealized imaginations of what girls are, and I hope you are put through the social hell that's going to a private girls-only school on your next life. You will discover how fast does shit gets real, o hardcore manly man.

Sorry, not all of us have to live in extremely hostile environment.

 

[Demnogonis Saastuttaja]

Sup.

Maybe game designers are missing the mark with women because they're largely making shit these days. Surely what the characters are wearing isn't an issue unless you're a little girl? I too would like to play some disgusting fat rape dude instead of a football player. But that's not a real issue with the games nowdays, it's not my character I'm looking at when playing games, it's just comical to make them look monstrous.

The customization of your character's appearance could be tied in the game mechanics, is your character easily recognizable, do npc's hate fatties, do you get seduction bonus, that kind of a thing. More variables can't really hurt a cRPG.

I often used wonder why none of the various CCG's, war games and other games seem to have any female player base, such as these are social games where you chat with pretty intelligent, civil people while playing a game (well not all of them, obviously, fucking WH40k was infested with kids). Could be that it simply doesn't happen, maybe nobody asks the women if they'd like to start playing some game with them.

Oh and the Codex isn't for everyone, if your attitude is "I don't want to hear that kind of talk", well, just go away and you don't.

 

[Gragt]

What I don't get is why even caree about hitting or missing the mark with a gender? If it's good, it 's good whoever you may be. If it misses the mark, maybe it's because it's trite to begin with — or you're just a goddamn sexual deviant who wants to see spiked cocks everywhere.

Heck, most games miss the mark with me by not featuring enough ferrets. Do you see me complaining?

 

[Nael]

What I don't get is why even caree about hitting or missing the mark with a gender? If it's good, it 's good whoever you may be. If it misses the mark, maybe it's because it's trite to begin with — or you're just a goddamn sexual deviant who wants to see spiked cocks everywhere.

Heck, most games miss the mark with me by not featuring enough ferrets. Do you see me complaining?

MEANWHILE AT EA HQ...

THE COCAINE MUST FLOW. WE NEED MORE WOMEN IN OUR PROJECTIONS.

 

[Gragt]

Seriously who needs cocaine when you got ferrets to play with?