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Incline Wizardry 8 Enhancements - A Call to Arms!

Kaucukovnik

Cipher
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
488
That's because I'm an idiot. I forgot to pack the loadscreen graphics. This should fix it. Updating the first post as well.
 

I_am_Ian

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
507
Location
The United States of America
It works just fine now thanks. Looks really good too, better than any mod I've used in the past. One of the crypts I unlocked had nothing inside it so I'm assuming its not complete. Or was it supposed to be empty? Also was I supposed to get a key from the cultist in the cave where the woodsman's axe is?
 

Kaucukovnik

Cipher
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
488
The key will be there in a future, complete release. I haven't touched item database for this purpose yet. For now there's just the messages so that you can already follow the proper sequence of events.

Tombs should all have random minor loot. If you mean the collapsed hallway, it will remain like that.

Good to hear you like the place.
 

townltu

Novice
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
33
Solo79? How do you deal with the crowds of insta-kill capable enemies in Dodd's? :eek:
the main thing is not to throw a 1 on the 20sided die in the wrong moment :D

"no issues" means i need the small quantum of luck, else they will catch him(me?) on the wrong leg,
no matter how careful, precise or whatever i play
Paralysis/KO have nearly same potential, but stealth may help to survive the sitution,
turncoat gives solos a nice pause for recovering, they even get buffs from enemies,
and insane solo never attack themselves.

I play solos since long, even noRPC/IM, in 1st half i avoid of encounters with "high lethal potential",
always use cover, surprise area spells without los etc, permanent training w min dmg weapons for easy encounters
A solo run may last 5 to >10 times longer that way(im terms of game time) than with a full party,
(avg for fast run w party of 8: dodds 50-60 days, vanilla <15)


entered the crypt w nin lvl9, vi@7, myles near lvl7, up to lvl 10/9/9 after the deathlord,
needed 2 reloads(deathcloud/all paralyzed -> dmg) forced to use 1 ResPowder/4 magic nectar (waisted for 65air spp <- nox fumes)
also to use/exploit terrain(the concussions from 2 row were just terrible).
Nice, Deathlord imo lil too strong, slimes lil too weak, ymmv


I don't know if this issue has to do with the mod or not but Ferro only replenishes the same four or five spell books. Any idea what's causing this?
The appearance of books is limited by party lvl and also random, it may be necessary to camp 3 times repeatedly for a 2nd instance of a spellbook,
but he should restock sooner or later, i dont think you can touch that function at all with CF only, probably only with a LUA script.
 

I_am_Ian

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
507
Location
The United States of America
My party is all level 15 or 16 and I camped for over a week and still no changes in the books he carries. Other items in his inventory are changing though. On the plus side I have plenty of Death Stars and medusa stones.
 

townltu

Novice
Joined
Feb 18, 2013
Messages
33
I_am_Ian said:
My party is all level 15 or 16
though it appears not to work exactly like the lvl sensor of chests(in matter of gold value)
the lvl sensor steps are 6, 11, 16....
I think he should have books up to spell lvl 4 for your party

I_am_Ian said:
... is there some way I can listen to all the different personality voice acting parts and read them?
dld, extract and run the Cosmic Forge Wiz6/7/8 Editor (http://mad-god.webs.com/)
In main menu select "String Editors" --> "PC QuoteEditor" to read and hear the different PC messages.

If you want the mp3 files, select "Micellaneous" --> "Rummage W8 File collection" in CF main menu
"Browse" to wiz_install_dir\data\sound and open file [sound.slf]
mark all files with path [pcs\*] and hit "extract file(s)"
The MP3s can be found in [wiz8_install_dir\Unpacked Data]

btw you can text and record your own PC/RPC voice set (mono @64kbs)
 

I_am_Ian

Arbiter
Patron
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Messages
507
Location
The United States of America
You're right. He had a few level 4 books, but I think I leveled up past 16 and now new books are spawning.

And thanks for the help with the voices, I am listening to them now using the Cosmic Forge editor. I think RFS-81 is my favorite.
 

Kaucukovnik

Cipher
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
488
By the way, as far as I know all books except for level 7 spells can be found or bought. I think that's good and doesn't need any modifications.
 

Kaucukovnik

Cipher
Joined
Mar 26, 2009
Messages
488
No whole streets yet, but segments of walls are being finished. A bit more polygons than I originally planned:

11ca9c2d1485e5b8c87d0281c0f4c8c409d2e1fc1ab4f406fa050c8495ace3ad6g.jpg


To-do: some interior walls, stairs and ramps, mechanized doors. Once I have the architectural tileset complete, building the houses should be pretty fast.
Then add furniture, steam and electricity.

Hope the polycount won't break the engine's neck. I should do some preliminary performance testing soon.
 

WaltC333

Novice
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Messages
36
Location
Deep In the Labyrinths of Mars
Marten's Pagoda preview (walkaround)

You can just add this and reload an existing save (even in Trynton), and the pagoda will be there. No interactivity yet.

Images:
91c6a840e51d534b2d9bcdc6e7e4b0d6f6ea7cae56ad1cba01e68ed13ec0c29a6g.jpg


5686a274c5de56b16a64c650274473d2d88ac9c856dca98b782463111bddc9806g.jpg


2bba7ba8f3f3a739ee576dc6ad5716b5d10e1c823b5be097dae24aa47c7dfada6g.jpg

Download



Crypt BETA

Images:
4702192be2e38760762cda8186ede74072689ac2344499c1a286e26dae5411b36g.jpg


235f56fe084fbc58ccd7cd099e9a7c9f7133985abbd8196c09c5b776d4c00a346g.jpg

Also retextures most terrain around Arnika and fixes seams and stretched textures.

Contains unofficial exe patch that fixes the speed wraparound bug.
Full documentation with credits will be included in the "final" release.

Run with !START!.bat
There is a new version of the fastanim.exe that doesn't break the mod like the original would.
  • New monsters don't have fast animations yet, to ensure that everyone sees the proper ones. In the final version they will be affected by the faster combat animation mod.
  • Beta version has no new keys included, so you get a message at places you will need or acquire a key in the final version.
This is done in order to keep item database untouched by the new dungeon for now and allow independent updates to the core mod and this extension.​

Starting a new game is required. Works both with and without my other mods.
Always keep your savegame before you have enterted the crypt! So make a save, go in explore, then reload and go on with your game. This way you can add most possible fixes mid-game, without the need to restart. All visited areas keep their data in saves.

download
Patches:
-A remnant from testing slipped in the beta, here is the fix. Put it in data\databases if your refuse the insane experience points from the very first battle.
-Another fix, to be able to enter the crypt, hope it's the last nasty one.

Wizardry 8 Enhancements

Faster combat
  • All monster animations speed increased
  • Velocity of all conventional projectiles greatly increased
  • Rockets fly twice as fast
  • Poison Spit and Stinger Thorn sped up, as they are extensively used by monsters encountered in large groups
-spells untouched (never bothered me)
-speed of party members' melee attacks untouched, probably hardcoded






Individual item graphics
  • All torso armor, headgear, gauntlets, most boots and a few other pieces
  • Miscellaneous weapons, mostly axes
  • All ammunition
  • All potions and beverages
  • All spellbooks (magic schools on covers)
9a15df919b83fe2e18c023ebdd97055d3db3775ab11654e5c5c0becce46adb176g.jpg

Item properties and location changes
  • Addressed lack of proper equipment for various character builds
  • Balanced available MP regeneraion - toned down most hybrids, buffed specialist casters, bishop and ninja
  • Spread MP recovery across more items, starting earlier through the game
  • Many unused items placed in game

    All items with set placement have been removed from random drop lists and merchants.
Cane of Corpus
Added penalty to Armor -3 to offset Robes of Rejuvenation, see below

Mace, Stun Mace, War Scepter
Primary, secondary

The Mauler
-set location in Rapax Castle

Zizka Star - turned into the much needed Lord endgame weapon, as it is based on a mace that was a leader's symbol
Lord only
To Hit +4
Initiative +1
Damage 12-30
10% KO
10% Turncoat (Possess)
Required Piety 70
Iron Will +15
Senses -10
Price: 40 000
-set location in Sea Caves - a late-game area almost devoid of good loot

Faust Halberd
-increased drop %

Maenad's Lance (originally unavailable)
-set location in Sea Caves

Sai
Added AC +1

Cutlass
Primary, secondary

Cutlass of the Damned
Damage 2-10 increased to 3-11
To Hit +1 increased to +2
Initiative of 0 raised to +1
Primary, secondary

Blade Cuisinart
Primary, secondary
-set location in Upper Rapax Castle

Vorpal Blade
-set location in Rapax Rift

Demonsbane
Damage raised from 5-16 to 6-24 - unfortunately the bonus % damage vs demons seems to be hardcoded
To Hit +1 improved to +4

Ivory Blade
KO 5%
Turncoat 1%

Muramasa
-set location in Rapax Castle

Excaliber
-set location next to its original chest in Bayjin Shallows

Cleaver
Primary, secondary

Bearded War Axe
Damage 1-6 increased to 2-12
Initiative +1 lowered to zero

Bipennis
Damage changed from 7-21 to 10-24

Crusader's 2H Axe +1
-increased drop %

Axe of Many Runes
3% Sleep, Paralyze, Hex, Kill, KO, Drain HP, Insanity
To Hit -8 changed to -3, still a bitch to use, but not totally useless

Beastslayer Axe
Damage 3-17 increased to 8-20
To Hit +1 raised to +3

Blades of Aesir
Damage 5-35 raised to 10-36
-initial Iceball charges 8-16 instead of 4-16
-set location in Rapax Castle

The Ripper
Damage 6-27 increased to 10-28
Kill 5% raised to 10%

Zatoichi Bo
-monk only
-set location at Bayjin

Rocket Launcher
KO 10%

Infinity Helm
Original: HP+2, ST+5, MP+5
Now: HP+3, ST+5, MP+3 - better for fighters, worse for casting hybrids, gives MP edge back to specialists
-set location at the Ascension Peak

Hi-Kane-Do (U) - Added MP+1
Hi-Kane-Do (L) - Added ST+1

Locket of Reflection
-both Male and Female (tired of female bards?)

Aeromancer's / Geomancer's / Hydromancer's / Pyromancer's Ring
Alchemist, Mage, Psionic only - the psionic fits less, but for balance reasons this will do for now
Added MP +1


Ankh of Sancticity
Bishop,Priest, Monk only
Added MP +1

Amulet of Nebdar
Alchemist, Mage, Priest, Psionic only - specialists had little advantage over a properly trained bishop
MP increased from +1 to +4
Senses -5 changed to -10

Robes of Rejuvenation
MP +1 changed to +2
AC decreased from +6 to +5

ALL robes
can be worn by Faeries and Ninjas - the restrictions mainly gimped MP regen

Originally unused gadgets
Demon Doll - set location in Upper Rapax Castle and Jack in the Box can be upgraded to Demon in the Box
High Voltage Trasformer- set location at the Mount Gigas peak, so it is possible to create the Electroshocker
Loudspeaker placed in the Umpani Camp, Electric Eye in Lower Marten's Bluff, Watchdog Alarm can be created
moved Ptorch to Arnika and X-Ray Chip in Mt.Gigas power station, now their locations and requirements make sense

Alchemy rebalance
Worst price bumps removed. Alchemy is still profitable, but you can no longer make absurd wealth in no time. There is also much less need for that money, since many items are found instead of bought.
Bless - price decreased from 800 to 550
Cure Disease - decreased from 1500 to 1000
Renewal - the insane price of 5000 dropped to 2000
Pandemonium Powder - price 3000 down to 1500
Skeleton Powder - price increased from 600 to 1200
Devil Dust - price raised from 90 to 350, replaced Sneeze Powder as ingredient for Pandemonium Powder

Magic rebalance
Direct damage spells were rather useless later in the game, compared to status effects and brute force. Beware, some of the improved spells are cast by enemies as well, so this isn't neccessarily making things easier.
Unfortunately I haven't found a way to add or alter status effects of spells. Damage will have to do.
Spell Damage New damage

Acid Bomb 1-6 3-6
Blizzard 2-18 4-20
Cerebral Hem. 2-48 16-44
Crush 2-30 12-30
Draining Cloud 1-5 3-9
Earthquake 3-21 5-30
Energy Blast 1-7 1-8
Falling Stars 2-16 1-24
Fireball 2-8 4-8
Firestorm 2-8 1-12
Iceball 2-10 2-12
Lightning 2-16 6-18
Magic Missiles 1-7 2-8
Nuclear Blast 3-21 4-24
Prismic Chaos 3-27 6-30
Prismic Fire 2-16 3-18
Fire Bomb 2-10 same, added duration
Psionic Fire 2-10 4-12
Shrill Sound 1-5 3-4
Toxic Cloud 1-4 1-6
Tsunami 3-27 4-36
Whipping Rocks 2-10 4-10
Whirlwind 2-8 3-12

Savegame compatibility: You won't get the new item distribution in areas you have already visited. Everything else should work without trouble.

Download version 0.5
The version number is the continuation of my item graphics mod.

Stand-alone components:
Individual item graphics (slightly less items compared to the full version, will update eventually)
Faster combat


Original thread that started this all is here.



I keep getting the "private message between Wiz 8 developers" crash...at various times. Sometimes injection works--it usually works properly--but it won't work after setting admin rights, as I guess you are aware . So I run the batch file under Win8Pro x64 with no compatibility mode and admin rights turned off. By taking each of your downloads above and installing them separately in linear fashion and then checking for bugs after installing each (one after the other in sequence), I find the crash is approximately 95% probable for me after I've installed the "enhancements" additions as linked above. It's repeatable. As soon as I install something else that overwrites the enhancements I can then run the batch file and all is well. Last problematic place in the game is dealing with the rat salesman (brain abscess--his name!) in the Monastery . Conversation with him is fine, but the minute I hit the "trade" button the game crashes with the "developers eyes only" error. I always get that particular error when the game crashes. Thought the info might be valuable, and hoping you are still working on the game!
 
Self-Ejected

theSavant

Self-Ejected
Joined
Oct 3, 2012
Messages
2,009
Thanks, the speedup tool is really great and I definitely wouldn't want to play without it anymore.

I still got the feeling there is a 0.5 second gap between each turn of the enemies, but I assume this is something hardcoded and cannot be changed. It's this small gap which makes battles tiresome (even though half a second doesn't sound much). Maybe Sirtech implemented something like a 500 millisecond-wait-time after each combat turn or animation to make sure they can't overlap each other... just guessing though.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
:necro:
I have an idea regarding my proposed Valk overhaul:

Like I said, it's efectively Lord 2.0, and that's kind of bad because it eclipses this class - valk has better specials, it's easier to develop and so on.
My proposed fix was upgrading Valk to elite (like ninja and bishop), along with increasing XP requirement and adding psionics to divinity (I explained earlier why it would make sense flavour-wise - mythical valkyries being the chosers of who will live or die meshes well with psychic themed psionics).
Some considered such Valk too powerful, so I propose additional nerf - make *all* ranged weapons off-limit to Valks.

From other stuff, I already metioned adding polearms (possibly excluding bec de corbin and halberd) to samurai - it makes sense given that RL samurai used polearms a lot, Rapax samurai in game do this as well IIRC.
Maybe don't let them use shields in exchange.

Other than that, are the previously discussed changes to ninjas (less pickiness in terms of usable gear) going to be in?

Thanks, the speedup tool is really great and I definitely wouldn't want to play without it anymore.

I still got the feeling there is a 0.5 second gap between each turn of the enemies, but I assume this is something hardcoded and cannot be changed. It's this small gap which makes battles tiresome (even though half a second doesn't sound much). Maybe Sirtech implemented something like a 500 millisecond-wait-time after each combat turn or animation to make sure they can't overlap each other... just guessing though.
Maybe it's simply the time it needs to calculate the next move - is it constant 500ms or variable about-0.5s-something?
 

TigerKnee

Arcane
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
1,920
Aren't Psionists considered a pretty lame class overall? If you give Psionics to Valkyrie even with the elite XP penalty I got a feeling there's going to be less reasons to use those guys.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,767
I never felt there is a need to (de)buff melee classes, I feel that it may cause more problems than benefits.

Now the ranged classes do need some tweaking because ranged sucks way too bad compared to melee and ninja/ranger are pretty lame when you larp the ranged build. Gadgeteer is the least broken, but still - he should be more balanced equipment wise as he is extremely sucky early on and placement of gadget components leaves much to be desired.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
The thing is Valks are effectively more powerful Lords in vanilla. Both are heavy melee classes, both are divine casters after lvl5, both have same XP requirement, both can use mostly the same gear. The difference is that Valk is much better in melee, has better starting skill allocation, has fewer skills to worry about and has more awesome special ability.

Elevating Valks to elite and giving them psionics would adress those:
- inflated XP cost would provide a tradeoff for being effectively better Lords.
- added psionics would give Valks more skills to worry about
- psionics would also differentiate Valk from Lord in terms of their role in the party, so they would no longer feel like each other's copypasta

Lack of ranged weaponry would:
- adress complaints that already powerful Valks would become even more OP with psionics
- potentially open up secondary melee skills as viable options (more skills to worry about)
- further differentiate Valks from Lords

Psionics would make Valks viable for unlocking Mindblast Rod for them in terms of flavour and wouldn't clash with classes flavour in general.

Also, did anyone inspect the possibility of changing Lord's special (HP regen) to ignoring cursed status (not debuffs caused by curses, but the inability to unequip) - as if they were under constant effect of remove curse?
Lords are *THE* runt class among hybrids and melee classes in general, so they could use some buff, and this would be an interesting one, as it would allow them to switch between cursed and non-cursed weapons freely in combat yielding unique gameplay, and compensating for their relatively limited hitting power in melee.
 

Zboj Lamignat

Arcane
Joined
Feb 15, 2012
Messages
5,767
Valks aren't that op, polearms are flavour, but are hardly the best weapon category with pretty low dmg, the best polearm is pretty great and has 50%hex, but still, Lord can get sth like bloodlust-stilleto combo pretty early on and sth like fang-diamond eyes later and both are much better.

Adding psionics to Valk at the cost of higher exp requirements seems rather pointless too, similar to Ninja and alchemy. Yeah, I know, herpa-derpa powergamers would grind this shit to level 100 in Arnika and create bestest characters ever, but normal players would just ignore it. Well, ok, if you don't have bard then going for haste is not the worst idea ever. Still, alchemy and psionics are both p bad spell schools for hybrids.

I agree with specials, the dual wield bonus is kinda sucky (still, it's not communication or artifacts hello Bishop) and hp regen only cool at the beginning. Anyway, I'm all for tweaking that, like making dual wield do something past 100 or making the regen more effective (perhaps stamina regen as well?) and not doing dramatic changes.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Valks aren't that op, polearms are flavour, but are hardly the best weapon category with pretty low dmg, the best polearm is pretty great and has 50%hex, but still, Lord can get sth like bloodlust-stilleto combo pretty early on and sth like fang-diamond eyes later and both are much better.
Polearms are pretty powerful. The damage of most powerful ones is comparable to the damage of most powerful 1h swords (not counting *light* *sword*), they often have potent debuffs and polearm skill bonus, plus they have extended range. The only common weakness is that they tend to carry an initiative malus.

Sure, they may not be as good at pure killing, but if you have extended reach and 20% paralyze or 50% hex, you don't really need that as you will be routinely hitting more and dealing multiplied damage.

They also have one critical advantage - you only have to pump close combat and polearm to maximize their effectiveness. For a Lord to compare you need close combat, dual wielding, and likely two different weapon skills.
Valkyrie can maximize her melee growth and still have points to spare for magic, ranged combat or whatever. Lord can't grow nearly as fast in terms of melee even by forfeiting everything else, and will have to slow his development even more to become, for example, an effective auxiliary caster.
Then you have special ability. Valkyrie autowins here because her ability is refusal to be killed. Lord's HP regen is too weak to be of any direct use, it could be used to offset cursed weapons, but the kicker here is that all cursed weapons draining HP are 2h, negating Lord's main strength, and if we are to ignore class skill, then you might as well make a Valk dual wielding maces or sword and mace. She might a bit worse at dual wielding, but since 2w skill negates maluses at 100 it will even out rendering class bonus meaningless, and instead of slowly regenerating HPs our Valk Lord-wannabe will be refusing to die when killed, making her a better Lord than actual Lord.
And don't forget relative abundance of powerful items with health regen on them and no worthwhile alternatives making Lord's regen redundant.

Adding psionics to Valk at the cost of higher exp requirements seems rather pointless too, similar to Ninja and alchemy.
Yeah, I know, herpa-derpa powergamers would grind this shit to level 100 in Arnika and create bestest characters ever, but normal players would just ignore it. Well, ok, if you don't have bard then going for haste is not the worst idea ever. Still, alchemy and psionics are both p bad spell schools for hybrids.
You miss the point.

First, the main problem is that Valk and Lord are effectively carbon copies of each other, with Valk being almost universally a better choice. My goal here is to make them different and compensate for Valk's increased awesome.

Second, Valk already has a spell school and can max this school out without slowing down develpment of her melee prowess and without forfeiting development of any other class specific skills (because she has none). Valk is unique in this regard among hybrids.
Adding another school (also unlocked at lvl 5) would give player an interesting choice of developing effectively a combat variant of weakened, delayed 2 school bishop, just like hybrids allow developing combat variant of weakened, delayed ordinary caster. And we know that sticking 2 casters in a single slot is never a bad idea. To give player more incentive to upgrade magic skills, offset possible overflow of awesome, and open wider variety of possible non-magic builds this new Valk would be barred from using ranged weaponry - do note that Divinity doesn't really help much in killing from distance.

Third, psionics is anything but bad - hypnotic lures, insanity, haste, good variety of damaging spells, often with insanity as additional status effect.

I agree with specials, the dual wield bonus is kinda sucky (still, it's not communication or artifacts hello Bishop) and hp regen only cool at the beginning. Anyway, I'm all for tweaking that, like making dual wield do something past 100 or making the regen more effective (perhaps stamina regen as well?) and not doing dramatic changes.
Fighter already has stamina regen. The thing with Lord is that this class doesn't do anything unique.

All the other classes apart from maybe single class casters aren't defined by their class skill, and single class casters have the kind of class skills that truly boost their potential.

Fighters regen stamina and can rage for 2x damage in addition to being excellent heavy melee combatants.
Rogues backstab, steal and party tends to need a locksmith.
Gadgeteers are the only ones that use gadgets, make cool stuff for other party members and have unique, upgradeable weapons.
Bards are the only ones that can get into music (in addition to being pretty versatile), so who cares about communication bonus being a joke?
Bishops are 2-4 casters in one slot - that is awesome by itself.
Samurais crit and can use pretty cool weapons fighters can't.
Rangers crit at distance.
Monks crit stuff hideous number of times per turn with their bare hands.
Ninjas start kind of meh, but they can become really good at critting, can throw stuff or alternatively can be Faeries.
Valks refuse to die an awful lot.

Lords? Lords are nothing beyond a priest who cannot cast nearly as well bolted on top of a fighter who cannot rage. That might have been a good reason to use them, except they also have point management problems, and Valks are mostly the same class, except wthout such issues AND they also refuse to fucking die when killed.

If I were to change lords, I would ditch the HP regen, since there is crapload of stuff that lets you regen health, and add ability to ingnore cursed status on items, so that the Lord's special shtick would be to be able to for example switch between Bloodlust and crossbow, which would also help offset Divnity's lack of good ranged offensive spells.

As for Valks, they are based on mythology so elevating them to elite and altering the class template in manner described above would only make sense.
 

TigerKnee

Arcane
Joined
Feb 24, 2012
Messages
1,920
Third, psionics is anything but bad - hypnotic lures, insanity, haste, good variety of damaging spells, often with insanity as additional status effect.

I mean, that sounds nice but some problems with Psionics (and giving it to Valks in this context)

1) A lot of their spells are replicated by Instruments and Gadgets, and most people like to have those two respective classes in their parties.

2) "Caster level" (to use a D&D term) is a huge factor in spell casting, and I find the 4 level penalty for hybrids makes them almost unusable for offensive spells. By the time they're reliably castable by hybrids they deal too little damage to be worth using. Divinity is the best hybrid spell group basically because of all its buffs and healing that isn't as reliant on caster level.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Third, psionics is anything but bad - hypnotic lures, insanity, haste, good variety of damaging spells, often with insanity as additional status effect.

I mean, that sounds nice but some problems with Psionics (and giving it to Valks in this context)

1) A lot of their spells are replicated by Instruments and Gadgets, and most people like to have those two respective classes in their parties.

2) "Caster level" (to use a D&D term) is a huge factor in spell casting, and I find the 4 level penalty for hybrids makes them almost unusable for offensive spells. By the time they're reliably castable by hybrids they deal too little damage to be worth using. Divinity is the best hybrid spell group basically because of all its buffs and healing that isn't as reliant on caster level.
Except divinity is easily the crappiest school. It does fuck all in terms of ranged attacks (and that's a good reason to use hybrid - to be able to swing some powerful, but cursed piece of metal, yet still be able to attack at distance), its primary spells are replicated by gadgets/instruments (bless, magic screen, armorplate, heal all is replicated *twice*) or castable by other, more useful schools (both psionics and alchemy have heal wounds, other curative spells are present in at least one of them). Ok, rest all can be worthwhile, but then again, other schools, especially alchemy and psionics have fuckload of useful exclusive spells.

Besides, overlap between classes isn't a problem, choosing how to spread out specializations across the party is half of the game in Wiz8 and saying that "everyone builds a party with X" goes against the very spirit of the game. Problems start when two classes are nearly identical in all respects - which is the case with lords and Valks.

Finally, if you go for caster Valk, you might as well pump two schools or pick either - even if you pump two of them you won't be in worse situation point-wise than any other hybrid pumping one. That would make Valk an elite analogue to hybrids, except with 2-school bishop instead of single school caster spliced into warrior, and pretty unique class with unique niche to fill. As they are they are mary sue Lord knockoffs stealing their spot, instead of being something unique and truly useful in their own right.

One more, unrelated thing - is anyone else unhappy with bishop's "remove curse" unique ability? I mean you get the spell, it becomes completely spurious afterwards.
 

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