Wizardry & Disco Elysium: how are these games the same genre?

[rusty_shackleford]

What elements do these games actually have in common?

 

[Sweeper]

They're both shit?

 

[Butter]

They're not the same genre.

 

[HoboForEternity]

RPG is an umbrella term.

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

They're in different subgenres.

Wizardry is a first-person dungeon crawler blobber( Might and Magic , bard's tale, Ettian Odyssey ). Disco Elysium is a RPG-novel (text heavy rpg) like Planet escape: Torment, Torment Tides of Numenera, Xenogears, The legend of heroes, Persona 4.

 

[luj1]

Disco Elysium is a RPG-novel (text heavy rpg) like Planet escape: Torment

Please dude

DE is not a text-heavy RPG, as there is no combat (in other words it's an adventure game)
PST is not a text-heavy RPG, you never played PST. It was ridden with trash mobs, it was combat-heavy, the text heavy thing is a myth by people who never played it
all the other titles you mentioned (Numenera, Xenogears, etc.) have combat. Disco doesn't.

 

[HoboForEternity]

combat doesn't make RPG

 

[luj1]

combat doesn't make RPG

Name a CRPG without combat then

 

[HoboForEternity]

combat doesn't make RPG

Name a CRPG without combat then

disco elysium

plus some RPG like torment would be better without the shitty trashmob combat

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

I've only played a bit of PST, all i recall is a lot of text. I've never played Disco Elysium, so i made assumptions from what i've seen and heard from the game.

 

[laclongquan]

Combat is essential for a CRPG

 

[luj1]

combat doesn't make RPG

Name a CRPG without combat then

disco elysium

We already know you're retarded, nothing new there. CRPG history spans over more than 40 years (?), so if combat isn't a requirement (like you are claiming) there should be plenty of examples

 

[AArmanFV]

Name a CRPG without combat then

Can be Alter ego considered one?

 

[Latro]

combat doesn't make RPG

Name a CRPG without combat then

disco elysium

plus some RPG like torment would be better without the shitty trashmob combat

this is what we call a "circular argument" fallacy

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

I disagree, If fallout 1 had no combat, it would still be a RPG since there's multiple ways to solve quests and stuff with non-combat stats\skills.

To make a non-combat RPG you need to make non-combat stats\skills to matter in different situations like in Fallout 1.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

They are not

One is clearly an RPG.

The other is an old blobber with boring combat and "exploration" and cartographer wannabe game.

 

[Butter]

I'll go so far as to say you can have a CRPG without combat, even if it's never been done. The reason Disco Elysium doesn't count is that your build makes no significant difference to the gameplay, and as such the game is essentially just reading. No matter what you do with your skills and attributes, you can't solve the case until you've been to the tribunal and until Klaasje tells you to go to the island. Everything before that is flavour text.

 

[luj1]

I disagree, If fallout 1 had no combat, it would still be a RPG since there's multiple ways to solve quests and stuff with non-combat skills.

Solving stuff (?) is not a principal tenet of RPGs.

CRPGs came from TTRPGs, and TTRPGs came from wargaming, so they need to have combat systems.

 

[Comte]

DE is a visual novel

 

[Sreggin Etah I]

I disagree, If fallout 1 had no combat, it would still be a RPG since there's multiple ways to solve quests and stuff with non-combat skills.

Solving stuff (?) is not a principal tenet of RPGs.

CRPGs came from TTRPGs, and TTRPGs came from wargaming, so they need to have combat systems.

You can play non-combat campaigns in tabletop RPGs. it's all depends on what the DM and players want. The original idea from TTRPGs is to create a narrative and role-play characters in it. It can go anywhere after that. Now, most TTRPGS are combat focused indeed, but even in a combat focused TTRPG like D&D you can still play non-combat campaigns, if you want.

 

[Latro]

There's a plethora of actual adventure games out there with more involved stats and character builds than DE; it's quite simply that za/um latched on to "RPG" because it came out of a PNP session + lucrative advertising. Adventure/Visual Novel games are a second tier genre in the industry, billing it as RPG and "in the fashion of such epics as planet escape torment" just helped it sell more copies. Helps that za/um was financed by some billionaire mogul that lined pockets of professional paid reviewers.

Can't sell your shitty novels normally, so sell it through a game-studio and make bank.

 

[luj1]

You can play non-combat campaigns in tabletop RPGs. it's all depends on what the DM and players want.

Yes you can, but these games have combat systems.

 

[Jacob]

People who have not played Age of Decadence in full combat route have never really played AoD tbh.

 

[†††]

They're not. DE isn't a RPG. A good game, but not a RPG.

People who have not played Age of Decadence in full combat route have never really played AoD tbh.

It can be said that people who have not played AoD in full diplomat route have never really played it as well. Because the game is meant to be replayed multiple times, experienced with different approaches each try. It's a very specific game, you don't beat it once and say "Yeah, I got the AoD experience".

 

[moraes]

One is a CRPG derived from the tradition of dungeon delving RPGs, with emphasis on combat, defeating and escaping the dungeon and amassing treasure. The other is a CRPG derived from the tradition of storytelling RPGs, with emphasis on developing a character inside a story - constructing his motivations, his relationship with the world and other characters - while achieving story defined goals.