Decline Wrath of the Righteous is even worse than Kingmaker (which was already shit)

[BING XI LAO]

>Porky criticising the cuckfinder games for being too hard
FFS the reason they are shit is because -
-DOGSHIT writing
-DOGSHIT art
-DOGSHIT setting
-DOGSHIT thirty different +1 to x stacking feature bloat / cookie clicker 'progression and character build' mechanics
nu-D&D products in general are DOGSHIT for all of the above reasons. Westcucks have no culture, and don't be fooled, Owlcat may be Russian but they are still whitoids and these in particular are infected with westcuck ideas. They are not useful for cultural pursuits as a result, the entire owlcat team should be drafted into a trench somewhere in Malorussia and left to die. The best points of an RPG is immersion, exploration, in a COOL and APPEALING fantasy world, not some retarded cuck poz trash gay pride parade with furry paladins. why would you want to ever play an RPG written by 21st century western D&D vermin who know nothing about REAL fantasy or scifi literature is beyond me. Kill them all

 

[BING XI LAO]

Now that I had finished Rogue Trader I figured I might as well try pozfinder. Holy shit has the character design and writing gone down hill since kangmaker. About as bad as Balldo's Gate 3. You have to be some serious build autism enjoyer to outweigh all the cringe dialogue.

Despite being ultimately unacceptable SJW poz cringe shit, Kingmaker writing was still decent enough to make me wonder if there was a decent game underneath there somewhere. With the second game... lol. Didn't even pirate this trash after seeing a few screenshots
every codexer who played this abomination is engaged in the Decline

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Look, Bada Bing, Bada Dumb, I realize being a Vatnik, your reading comprehension is somewhere between a prairie dog and a flying squirrel, but before you get your panties in a bunch, read what I actually said. It's not the difficulty at all, it's stupid obstacles to player fun, like for example constant permanent stat drains or negative levels, or not being able to rest and forced to use abilities like a miser, or the million buffs you gotta preapply before every fight. These shit mechanics literally drain any fun out of this game.

 

[Old Hans]

What the fuck does resource management have to do with RPGs anyway?

original D&D basically revolved around gary gygax making sure the party was keeping track of torch supplies on a round by round basis, while yelling at you about how important it is to keep strict time records

 

[Cryomancer]

TLDR?

Same critiques that almost everyone already have heard about the excessive amount of buffs required to fights, trash encounters and so on.

like for example constant permanent stat drains or negative levels,

Did you played old D&D games? In Ravenloft : Strahd possession and Dungeon Hack, most mid tier undead do inflict negative levels and you can't restore it with magic, negative plane protection protects you against ONE hit. In non D&D RPG's too. I'm playing Might & Magic, world of Xeen and there are enemies who permanently ages my party members and rejuvenating them is not easy as cast a spell, enemies that destroy my weapons and armor, enemies that insta kill even my Barbarian, I had to explore a mine full of poison inflicting enemies before my Cleric learned how to remove poison in the beginning of the game and the game is one of the easiest blobbers of the time.

If you think that having to cast once remove blindness and restoration is that bad, imagine if you ever had to fight poison inflicting enemies underwater in a anti magical field in Eye of the Beholder 3.

Kingmaker writing was still decent enough to make me wonder if there was a decent game underneath there somewhere.

Lich companions aren't bad imo. And you get to troll the woketards as one.

 

[Talby]

Kingmaker sucked, it only compared favorably to the grey porridge that is Pillars of Eternity and so fooled a few retards into thinking it was a good RPG. I didn't play the sequel but it seems to be a vehicle for the authors' degenerate sexual fetishes and so should be avoided as well.

 

[OttoQuitmarck]

>Porky criticising the cuckfinder games for being too hard
FFS the reason they are shit is because -
-DOGSHIT writing
-DOGSHIT art
-DOGSHIT setting
-DOGSHIT thirty different +1 to x stacking feature bloat / cookie clicker 'progression and character build' mechanics
nu-D&D products in general are DOGSHIT for all of the above reasons. Westcucks have no culture, and don't be fooled, Owlcat may be Russian but they are still whitoids and these in particular are infected with westcuck ideas. They are not useful for cultural pursuits as a result, the entire owlcat team should be drafted into a trench somewhere in Malorussia and left to die. The best points of an RPG is immersion, exploration, in a COOL and APPEALING fantasy world, not some retarded cuck poz trash gay pride parade with furry paladins. why would you want to ever play an RPG written by 21st century western D&D vermin who know nothing about REAL fantasy or scifi literature is beyond me. Kill them all

And non-westcucks have culture? Ah yes I'd love to play some garbage anime gatcha "rpg" instead that is filled to the brim with pedophilia.

 

[boot]

I just finished Kingmaker and started on a WotR playthrough. It's like the difference between BG1 and BG2, much more epic, can make incredible builds with the mythic path stuff. Also, companions are much stronger and more varied mechanically. Unfortunately it is extremely woke. Did you know the storyteller is gay? Yeah, he's gay, too.

Overall I like it, though. I even like the simple crusade mode. The writing is the worst part but it has some bright spots. Nocticula, and the Abyss I find very cool. I think Owlcat did learn from Kingmaker, they just don't make the kind of games you like.

 

[Orud]

WoTR was worse - YES.
Kingmaker was already shit - Hell no.

I just finished Kingmaker and started on a WotR playthrough. It's like the difference between BG1 and BG2, much more epic, can make incredible builds with the mythic path stuff. Also, companions are much stronger and more varied mechanically. Unfortunately it is extremely woke. Did you know the storyteller is gay? Yeah, he's gay, too.

Overall I like it, though. I even like the simple crusade mode. The writing is the worst part but it has some bright spots. Nocticula, and the Abyss I find very cool. I think Owlcat did learn from Kingmaker, they just don't make the kind of games you like.

Comparing Kingmaker and WoTR to BG1 and BG2 is a close, but ultimately wrong comparison. Kingmaker is BG1 and WoTR is ToB. They skipped BG2 entirely.

 

[VerSacrum]

Did you know the storyteller is gay?

No because I got tired of his TL;DR shit really fast and just click past everything

 

[Shaki]

WoTR was worse - YES.
Kingmaker was already shit - Hell no.

I just finished Kingmaker and started on a WotR playthrough. It's like the difference between BG1 and BG2, much more epic, can make incredible builds with the mythic path stuff. Also, companions are much stronger and more varied mechanically. Unfortunately it is extremely woke. Did you know the storyteller is gay? Yeah, he's gay, too.

Overall I like it, though. I even like the simple crusade mode. The writing is the worst part but it has some bright spots. Nocticula, and the Abyss I find very cool. I think Owlcat did learn from Kingmaker, they just don't make the kind of games you like.

Comparing Kingmaker and WoTR to BG1 and BG2 is a close, but ultimately wrong comparison. Kingmaker is BG1 and WoTR is ToB. They skipped BG2 entirely.

Kingmaker was already BG2. WoTR, unfortunately, comes closer to BG3 when you look at writing and companions.

 

[Fedora Master]

The game obviously suffers from doing too much. Too many classes with too many abilities leading to endless bugs and broken mechanics. Too much story that gets exhausting and tedious halfway through.

 

[Ivan]

after about 20 hours,

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I think Owlcat did learn from Kingmaker, they just don't make the kind of games you like.

You mean FUN ones?

 

[REhorror]

It's certainly one of the BETTER CRPG in the 2010s tho.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Wrath of the Righteous is fun but flawed; while the apologia from the fans is beyond belief. A little bit ago I pointed out that one of the core companions in his default class was broken, the skills didn't work, and everyone said well that guy and his class sucks, you should just multiclass him to a legionnaire/Obergruppenführer/cleric/shoemaker/optometrist instead. DUH, nobody uses companions in their default classes!

 

[boot]

Wrath is also one of the buggiest games I've played in a long time.

 

[agris]

It's not the difficulty at all, it's stupid obstacles to player fun

man just wants to hit a button and have something awesome happen, dont you see? AwesomeButton

 

[MerchantKing]

To quote the great Lilura, Poncefinder: Cuckmaker was utter crap, as Gregz eloquently outlined here a few years back. Now, I finished that turd back in the day, and I dunno why, perhaps because I am glutton for punishment (among other things), I decided to play the sequel, which I picked up for cheap.

And oh boy, after about 20 hours, I have to declare, Wrath of the Nauseous might even be worse than Shitmaker 1. In fact, it's so bad, I will not even try to finish it, and instead do the smart thing and uninstall it.

Why do I hate it so much? Well, for one thing, Owlcat has learned literally nothing from Kingmaker. All the same exact shit that caused problems there is back, and in some cases even worse.

As early as the first chapter, when you are clearing Kenabres from the demons, and your fucking party is like level 3, and you barely have any shit or spells, half the fucking enemies apply permanent ability and stat drains. The Shadows with their stat drain. The rat swarms with their filth fever. Not to mention if someone dies and is resurrected, which already takes a high level resource to do, they get applied a negative level too, because in Russia this passes for fun. What kind of retard would think this is a good idea in a product meant for entertainment?

Even though I would agree that demons are a retarded enemy thematically for a low level party and that it's retarded to even give a low level party access to such items, it's starting to sound like you were filtered.

Some of this shit can be undone with rest, which brings me to my next point, the fucking "brilliance" behind corruption. See, these retards (much like the retards behind Pooplars of Eternity) decided that rest spamming is a bad idea in RPGs, so they introduced camping gear or rations, to limit the rests. Of course everybody normal hated this idea, because all it did is make rest more annoying. IE, everyone still rested the same, they just had to make more trips now in and out of dungeons, or play like misers (ooohh, i can't cast this spell now, cause I gotta save it for the boss, let me use a fucking crossbow on my wizard instead). So after all the complaints about rations, the Einsteins at Owlcat decided to replace it with .. corruption. Lol.

Where do these idiots even come from? Like who the fuck even cares about rest spamming? I played the Baldur's Gate saga, and the NWN games, and ToEE, and NetHack and other DnD games, and never had any issues with rest spamming. Because good games can balance the combat around other, more sensible stuff. Only autistic retards want massive attrition in their games, literally being barely able to use their weapons, and think that's fun. It's probably the people who play the same game 20 times, and then whine about how it's too easy. But why the fuck would you design your game around those kinds of people? If your game needs attrition to be fun, then your game is shit.

I see you hate mechanical features that add to the roleplaying by further mechanically simulating aspects of the world like scarcity or some kind of problem endemic to a region that you have to do. It's almost like you don't like mechanical features that encourage roleplaying in roleplaying games. If anything, WotR should've kept the rations requirement for camping. CRPGs in general need more such mechanics to help reinforce the fact that a problem in the region is more than just dialogue lines and something you run into by simply following the linear plotline. At the same time, both games allowed you to utilize your party member's skills to get some additional benefits during camping and an improved chance to avoid random encounters. Plus someone with a high enough nature skill could eliminate the need for rations entirely.

But BG1+2, IWD1+2, and ToEE certainly had their anti-rest spam in the form of random encounters that could kill your party if you got the wrong encounter. NWN's anti rest spam depended on who made the module you're playing through. You always had the timer for rests however. Most D&D games had some kind of anti-rest spam mechanics. At times in BG1, you can find yourself resting over and over again just to run into encounter after encounter on each attempt only to realize the best course of action is to leave the area and rest in a more appropriate place. There was also the restriction that you very likely couldn't just rest wherever in towns since a guard would interupt your rest requiring that you use an Inn.

Then, speaking of unfun, there is the fucking endless buffing. This is the height of Owlcat combat design: every enemy has inflated stats, so the "challenge" of the combat system is not tactics, or anything interesting, it is to literally prebuff your fucking party 20 times with the cornucopia of consumable shit that the game showers you with. Who needs tactics when you can click on drink potion or cast scroll 20 times before each fight, that's WAY more fun. Well, I am no rocket scientist, but here is a fucking idea: if you remove stupid stat bloat from enemies, then you wouldn't need to prebuff 20 times, and then you also wouldn't be showered with a million useless pieces of trash in every container.

The rampant buff spam is a 3e problem that pf1e inherited. It was possible in ToEE and many NWN1+2 builds depend heavily on the buff spam. Also, unless you're playing on Hard or Unfair, you probably don't have to buff spam for most encounters in either PF game since so many of them are just trash. At best it's just the best practice to buff spam at the beginning of an area to more quickly steamroll the trash mob spam with garbage AI.

There's also the problem that they didn't implement some of the rules correctly which allowed for buff stacking and getting bonsues that wouldn't be possible in tabletop, i.e. Magical vestment, sneak attack without satisfying the flanking rules, etc.

Holy fuck, then you might actually spend your time in the game on doing something fun instead.

Collecting and selling loot for profit is part of the fun of crpgs!

Oh, and of course, the woke writing. Two steps into the game and there is a lesbian marriage, cause that's the first thing that springs to mind in a fantasy world.

I agree. The woke writing was trash in both games.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

To quote the great Lilura, Poncefinder: Cuckmaker was utter crap, as Gregz eloquently outlined here a few years back. Now, I finished that turd back in the day, and I dunno why, perhaps because I am glutton for punishment (among other things), I decided to play the sequel, which I picked up for cheap.

And oh boy, after about 20 hours, I have to declare, Wrath of the Nauseous might even be worse than Shitmaker 1. In fact, it's so bad, I will not even try to finish it, and instead do the smart thing and uninstall it.

Why do I hate it so much? Well, for one thing, Owlcat has learned literally nothing from Kingmaker. All the same exact shit that caused problems there is back, and in some cases even worse.

As early as the first chapter, when you are clearing Kenabres from the demons, and your fucking party is like level 3, and you barely have any shit or spells, half the fucking enemies apply permanent ability and stat drains. The Shadows with their stat drain. The rat swarms with their filth fever. Not to mention if someone dies and is resurrected, which already takes a high level resource to do, they get applied a negative level too, because in Russia this passes for fun. What kind of retard would think this is a good idea in a product meant for entertainment?

Even though I would agree that demons are a retarded enemy thematically for a low level party and that it's retarded to even give a low level party access to such items, it's starting to sound like you were filtered.

You can get filtered by idiocy, you know. Now stop quoting internet memes before I show you that I can dual wield them. With my feet.

Some of this shit can be undone with rest, which brings me to my next point, the fucking "brilliance" behind corruption. See, these retards (much like the retards behind Pooplars of Eternity) decided that rest spamming is a bad idea in RPGs, so they introduced camping gear or rations, to limit the rests. Of course everybody normal hated this idea, because all it did is make rest more annoying. IE, everyone still rested the same, they just had to make more trips now in and out of dungeons, or play like misers (ooohh, i can't cast this spell now, cause I gotta save it for the boss, let me use a fucking crossbow on my wizard instead). So after all the complaints about rations, the Einsteins at Owlcat decided to replace it with .. corruption. Lol.

Where do these idiots even come from? Like who the fuck even cares about rest spamming? I played the Baldur's Gate saga, and the NWN games, and ToEE, and NetHack and other DnD games, and never had any issues with rest spamming. Because good games can balance the combat around other, more sensible stuff. Only autistic retards want massive attrition in their games, literally being barely able to use their weapons, and think that's fun. It's probably the people who play the same game 20 times, and then whine about how it's too easy. But why the fuck would you design your game around those kinds of people? If your game needs attrition to be fun, then your game is shit.

I see you hate mechanical features that add to the roleplaying by further mechanically simulating aspects of the world like scarcity or some kind of problem endemic to a region that you have to do. It's almost like you don't like mechanical features that encourage roleplaying in roleplaying games. If anything, WotR should've kept the rations requirement for camping. CRPGs in general need more such mechanics to help reinforce the fact that a problem in the region is more than just dialogue lines and something you run into by simply following the linear plotline. At the same time, both games allowed you to utilize your party member's skills to get some additional benefits during camping and an improved chance to avoid random encounters. Plus someone with a high enough nature skill could eliminate the need for rations entirely.

But BG1+2, IWD1+2, and ToEE certainly had their anti-rest spam in the form of random encounters that could kill your party if you got the wrong encounter. NWN's anti rest spam depended on who made the module you're playing through. You always had the timer for rests however. Most D&D games had some kind of anti-rest spam mechanics. At times in BG1, you can find yourself resting over and over again just to run into encounter after encounter on each attempt only to realize the best course of action is to leave the area and rest in a more appropriate place. There was also the restriction that you very likely couldn't just rest wherever in towns since a guard would interupt your rest requiring that you use an Inn.

A stupid mechanical feature is a bad thing. In previous DnD games, there was some reasonable punishment for resting, ie you could get attacked/woken up, so you didn't spam rest too much, only when you needed it to refresh your key abilities.

But this new shit with camping rations or corruption or whatever, it's just dumb as fuck, because you are literally preventing the player from using their class abilities. Think about a game like System Shock 2, where you get relatively limited ammo, to keep the suspense up. But you still generally get enough bullets to kill every enemy, as long as you don't auto fire like a retard, and place your shots carefully.

But in Shitmakers/PoE/other crap, it doesn't matter how carefully you cast your spells, you cannot spread them over anything near the total amount of encounters, so basically your healers/casters/wizards should just be mostly useless with crossbows or whatever, and save up their shit for a few key fights. This is the opposite of fun, and basically all it does in realistic terms is screw over casters and elevate melee to kings of combat.

Then, speaking of unfun, there is the fucking endless buffing. This is the height of Owlcat combat design: every enemy has inflated stats, so the "challenge" of the combat system is not tactics, or anything interesting, it is to literally prebuff your fucking party 20 times with the cornucopia of consumable shit that the game showers you with. Who needs tactics when you can click on drink potion or cast scroll 20 times before each fight, that's WAY more fun. Well, I am no rocket scientist, but here is a fucking idea: if you remove stupid stat bloat from enemies, then you wouldn't need to prebuff 20 times, and then you also wouldn't be showered with a million useless pieces of trash in every container.

The rampant buff spam is a 3e problem that pf1e inherited. It was possible in ToEE and many NWN1+2 builds depend heavily on the buff spam. Also, unless you're playing on Hard or Unfair, you probably don't have to buff spam for most encounters in either PF game since so many of them are just trash. At best it's just the best practice to buff spam at the beginning of an area to more quickly steamroll the trash mob spam with garbage AI.

There's also the problem that they didn't implement some of the rules correctly which allowed for buff stacking and getting bonsues that wouldn't be possible in tabletop, i.e. Magical vestment, sneak attack without satisfying the flanking rules, etc.

I don't give a flying owlrat's ass who they inherited it from. They chose the system for their game, they also chose HOW to adapt it. So they are responsible for the shit. Nobody says you have to adopt a PnP system verbatim into a video game, smart designers know this.

Holy fuck, then you might actually spend your time in the game on doing something fun instead.

Collecting and selling loot for profit is part of the fun of crpgs!

Not when that "loot" is like a bazillion of similar potions and scrolls and other useless crap. It's even tiring to read the labels/descriptions in the inventory cause there is so much shit and most of it does the same shit. or all that horrible "Here is a fucking frozen fart sculpture of the northern mammoth squirrel. It will be of interest to some collector. Worth 2 coppers." Are these fucking collectors homeless?

 

[Lacrymas]

My favourite thing is someone being right for the wrong reasons. WotR and Kingmaker are shit-adjacent but not because of rest restrictions or status effects, lol. What is wrong is the overly bloated character building system that only provides numerical bonuses if you have a PhD in it and manage to squeeze out as much as possible, RTwP combat that is shockingly janky (the worst RTwP I've ever experienced), copy-pasted encounters due to the RTwP combat, Kingmaker and WotR are two of the worst pre-written tabletop adventures in an already shaky catalogue, bugs up the butt, it's unbalanced as fuck and gets easier and easier due to the underlying 3.5E system that never managed to rein in higher level gameplay, etc. etc. The only thing OP is correct about is the tediousness of buffing, which is bad design in of itself, but there's a mod to auto-buff everyone.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

copy-pasted encounters due to the RTwP combat

This is not due to RTwP. Deadfire got rid of that almost entirelly for large sections of the game. This is a design ethos of championing "quantity over quality" -- this IS a studio that has been pumping out 100 hour+ campaigns every two years, atop of numerous DLCs.

Had Owlcat developed BG1, the "empty" wilderness would have been replaced by a mob parcours you can barely traverse two feet without stumbling upon another one.

 

[Lacrymas]

While that is true, I'm sure Owlcat thought this is acceptable because "it's at least fast 'cause it's RTwP, lol, game design is my passion"

 

[Glop_dweller]

I disagree about rest spamming. I think it makes the game more interesting to not be able to spam rests and be more strategic about spell usage. Otherwise it makes the game too easy.

The problem with countermeasures is plainly seen in Pillars of Eternity (with that damnable camping equipment gimmick), where it is trivially possible to end up in situ where the party is beaten down to a point where they cannot progress forward, and cannot survive the retreat, and cannot rest to restore themselves even slightly. This leads to a party wipe, and potentially needing a full restart of the game.

 

[Lacrymas]

where it is trivially possible to end up in situ where the party is beaten down to a point where they cannot progress forward, and cannot survive the retreat, and cannot rest to restore themselves even slightly. This leads to a party wipe, and potentially needing a full restart of the game.

This literally never happens.