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XCOM: Enemy Unknown VS. Xenonauts VS. OpenXcom

Had the most fun with?


  • Total voters
    84

kaizoku

Arcane
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Feb 18, 2006
Messages
4,129
Xenonauts just showed up on GOG. OpenXcom 1.0 was just released. And I happened to watch by chance a video of two youtube LP guys playing Enemy Unknown.
So I was left wondering, are any of these worth playing? Are any worth buying?
I mean, with OpenXcom does it make sense to buy Xenonauts or X:EU? They do look prettier (but more importantly, the text is easier on the eyes).


Rate from 0 to 10, how much fun did you have with these games.

You can also post how many hours you believe that you spent on each game.
 

Baron

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2010
Messages
2,887
When Enemy Unknown first came out, and my friends and I were huddled around various computers playing it, everyone always renamed their best shooter Marty Bryant, after the prominant spree shooter (who incidentally resulted in changes in Australian gun laws when it dawned on people that low IQ retards probably didn't need semi-automatic rifles).

The music and ambience, the glorious fatalities, huting down mind controlling bastards, the ending turns in a doorway with a sectoid pointing a plasma pistol at your nuts.

Probably greatest game ever for me. Mostly I liked blowing a hole in the side of a spaceship and taking out a cone shaped path of destruction. Oh, and the cattle mutilation references. Amazing game. Haven't played the others... will do.
 
Joined
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damn youngsters, back in my day a poll would have been another possible choice: "kingcomrade".

i'm torn between openxcom (because it's x-com) and xenonauts because even if almost 1:1 it tries to do something new without corrupting the formula too much.
 
Joined
Jan 7, 2012
Messages
14,271
Right now, Open Xcom is the best. Just a flawless remake with a great additional feature set. Only thing better would be Open TFTD.

Xenonauts has a lot of potential but at the moment suffers from the following problems:

1. Too much map repetition, especially on the damned cramped as hell city maps. You'd think we lived on Coruscant the way that 90% of UFOs shot down manage to crash in cities.
2. Too linear in progression. In X-Com there's a lot of divergent stuff you can do, like try to capture an early Navigator or even Psi-alien (which is itself made much easier to get if you research the psi probe, another important choice). You have the choice of easily accessible laser weapons and loadsamoney or waiting around for plasma and aerial dominance. In Xenonauts there's a very limited amount of research divergence, in fact I'm finding myself running out of research to do a few months in and being forced to sit around for the stuff to open up. Similarly, the economic side feels like there is only One True Way, which is to build the 2nd base on the 2nd month and the 3rd base the 3rd month, immediately pumping out 3-5 aircraft for each. No options like cheaping out on hiring new scientists in favour of a day 1 2nd base, and One Base challenge seems completely unfeasible. The strategic layer just won't allow it.
3. Far too grindy. By the beginning of the 3rd month I had done 26 missions. 26! That's nearly one every other day. In X-Com that number would be in the 5-10 range (and in fact it's technically possible to beat the game only doing a single ground mission + Cydonia, if you feel up to the challenge). Now there is the "airstrike the crash site instead of invading", but it gives you only about 1/3rd of the cash and vastly less Alerium/Alloy, so while my finances were good in the 3rd month when I tried to survive off airstrikes with my world-wide defense network, my production immediately ground to a halt.

That said, I have hopes that Xenonauts will get better with time.

XC:EU/EW is 1 step forward 2 steps back from X-Com. I do really enjoy the additions that EW added, vanilla EU was just flat out 2 steps back. Even with all that EW aded the gutted strategic layer, 4/6 man teams, and silly spawning routine of aliens still drag it down a ton though. But at the very least I'd say it's more replayable than Xenonauts just because there are more options in terms of tech paths and there is less grind. I've heard that mods fix a lot of problems with EU but haven't gotten around to trying them out.

In conclusion, EU and Xenonauts both try to add new features, many of which are quite appealing. Unfortunately X-Com was really a game that was much more than the sum of its parts. Every part of X-Com just worked together in perfection. Where Xenonauts and especially EU compromise on what made X-Com great they induce an imperfection which cannot be compensated by any new cool additional features you may add, and these imperfections are what makes them inferior. But all 3 are still pretty fun though, if you love one you'll probably like the other two.
 
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KoolNoodles

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
3,545
I've had a lot of fun with all of them, but X-COM is clearly the best and most fun game. Not even close.

Just this by itself is more fun than the other two, and it's not even as good a game its predecessor.

 

catfood

AGAIN
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Nirvana for mice
(but more importantly, the text is easier on the eyes).
Actually Open X-Com has an option to scale the text so that it's no longer so difficult to read. Personally I like using scale4xhq. I blurrs the text the right amount to make it perfectly legible.
 

titus

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Sep 28, 2011
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So far I've only played Xenonauts long enough to have an impression, the game is good, even though it has its flaws as Average Manatee said. Plus some annoying bugs :outrage:

Open X-Com looks fine, and I'll dedicate some more time to it, hopefully in the near future. It certainly seems harder than Xenonauts, at least in the beginning.

XCom:EU I must say that I liked it well enough when it got released, but got boring pretty fast and never got to actually finish it. I like the game better with EW(although vanilla is still crappy and has some stuff that, for me, make no sense).
This all changed with the Long War mod. I got my ass handed to me in the second mission. Although I'm probably not the best XCom player, that didn't happen in the vanilla. The mod seems to change the game to better. Can't say very much about its other aspects but from what I've read it sounds good. Give it a try, it's free.
 

Zeriel

Arcane
Joined
Jun 17, 2012
Messages
13,463
My main complaint with Long War is that the interception minigame is utterly borked and retarded in implementation--most other things about the mod are great. Also, it kind of puts the difficulty levels out of wack. Normal is fine, but some of the higher difficulty levels aren't really meant to be beaten, and I don't mean in the sense that bad players thought original Impossible: Ironman wasn't beatable, it just isn't meant to scale up, is balanced to already be quite difficult on Normal, et cetera.
 

oneself

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3. Far too grindy. By the beginning of the 3rd month I had done 26 missions. 26! That's nearly one every other day.

How did you do 26 missions in one month? I'm on month 4 and with at least one heavy fighter on each continent and only Foxtrots my Charlie 1 can barely leave the base, never mind the long trips to another continent for a downed UFO.
 

titus

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With only one base in Egypt I was doing at least ten missions per month IIRC. Even in the manual they recommend not playing them all but ordering airstrikes after you get what you need and level up your soldiers. Are you destroying the UFOs over the ocean by any chance?
 

Dayyālu

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Jul 1, 2012
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Shaper Crypt
Sadly, Xenonauts is pretty and quite possibly the best thing if you are allergic to the proper pixelated graphics. That said, Xenonauts has also many annoyances that makes it inferior to the Original UFO: limited maps, quite boring and predictable progression (I'll admit, I haven't played it properly since some releases ago, but I found the research quite uninspired).
Sum that with the limited squads, and the greatest little thing: the lack of fully destructible terrain and UFOS.

Battlescape in UFO is amazing: the simple possibility to change the terrain and walls with weapons and explosives gives you so many variables. I almost never tire of the wonderful little game of a bait team distracting the aliens holed in a little barn, followed by the entry of power armoured agents that smash into the flimsy walls from another direction and rain death onto the alien invaders.

OpenXcom gave me the chance to start another campaign: and so far, I'm positively impressed. Game is stable and configurable. AI seems a little too much competent, better than the old one. I fear OpenTFTD and the marathon missions.

To your questions:
Hours on OpenXcom: 5? Still solid as the original ones. Best of the three. 9/10
Hours on Xenonauts: Less than 10. 7/10
NeoXcom: Less than an hour. Not my cup of tea, but it seems adequate. 6/10

If you have not played the Original UFO already to the death, the reply is obvious: OpenXcom is an easy way to enjoy a gem.
 
Joined
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3. Far too grindy. By the beginning of the 3rd month I had done 26 missions. 26! That's nearly one every other day.

How did you do 26 missions in one month? I'm on month 4 and with at least one heavy fighter on each continent and only Foxtrots my Charlie 1 can barely leave the base, never mind the long trips to another continent for a downed UFO.

Two months. And I generally had 2-3 foxtrots + 1 fighter per continent, with the troop transport routinely doing 2 or 3 missions in a single sortie before returning to base. Air superiority wasn't hard, I was shooting down probably 90% of detected UFOs. I had a 2nd away team ready to staff the 2nd base as soon as it was up.

Even with all those missions gathering Alenium I ran out of the stuff just arming my first squad with laser weapons and building a single fighter and vehicle. Didn't even have enough to build the tier 2 troop transport when it became available. So, yeah, Alenium grinding is really horrible.
 

oneself

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3. Far too grindy. By the beginning of the 3rd month I had done 26 missions. 26! That's nearly one every other day.

How did you do 26 missions in one month? I'm on month 4 and with at least one heavy fighter on each continent and only Foxtrots my Charlie 1 can barely leave the base, never mind the long trips to another continent for a downed UFO.

Two months. And I generally had 2-3 foxtrots + 1 fighter per continent, with the troop transport routinely doing 2 or 3 missions in a single sortie before returning to base. Air superiority wasn't hard, I was shooting down probably 90% of detected UFOs. I had a 2nd away team ready to staff the 2nd base as soon as it was up.

Even with all those missions gathering Alenium I ran out of the stuff just arming my first squad with laser weapons and building a single fighter and vehicle. Didn't even have enough to build the tier 2 troop transport when it became available. So, yeah, Alenium grinding is really horrible.


I am currently running 3 bases with one in Europe, one in NA and one in Indochina. 3 Foxtrot and 1 Charlie on Europe, 2 Foxtrot each on the other two bases. I'm lucky to run 5 missions a month since most UFO I down are either in water or too far to reach safely with fighters circling around.

On the plus side, I am not running into many terror missions because I am downing Landingships left and right.

The problem I have for this game is money. With 3 bases and an upkeep of roughly 1.5m you really don't have room for massive expansion into a single base. I am researching X-59 and I don't think I can afford to replace 7 in one month. I don't think I can afford to replace 2/month. I don't see Foxtrots and plasma torpedoes lasting any longer.
 
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Well, I'm generally taking out the fighters and assaulting almost everything, along with tailing most UFOs till they are over land (really wish there was a "tail until over land or about to run out of fuel because I sure as hell don't want to let it live" button).

Airstrikes give around 20-30k apiece and ground assault give 50-75k. Money is tight but once I had my third base I could maintain a constantly-rising monthly income with all nations just through air superiority and airstrikes. But the lack of Alerium is a fatal weakness.

I was playing on Veteran, maybe you are getting less UFOs on an easier difficulty or facing more alien air cover on the highest difficulty?
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
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Mar 10, 2011
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Comparing either to the original X-Com is just unfair, so let's leave that out of this.

XCOM was alright, but became boring once you understand the game mechanics. I was playing Impossible/Ironman pretty much from day one and had no issues. I might have to try that Long War, though. It looks pretty cool

Xenonauts has a ton of potential if a strong mod-following swells up behind it. It also introduces game mechanics like suppression and shields that really help improve combat scenarios, IMO. The air combat is easily the best out of the three, hands down.

Also, it has the best writing of the three. I know that's not a big deal, but Xenonauts' writing was amusing and interesting throughout. I don't always read the lore stuff in games, but I read all of them in Xenonauts.
 

oneself

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Playing on Vet. But I am not waiting for them to go over land. Perhaps I should, but my rationale was that I need my Foxtrots to pull back so they can attack another ASAP. Maybe the economy in this game is different from the original, where one heavy plasma sold for 150k or something.

You are doing peculiarly well though. I just did my first alien base mission and the AI sure improved a lot. I didn't have to breach room by room at all. They swarmed at me from all directions, somewhat unfair considering how little cover they give you in that first room. Damned Elite Sebillians heals for 80 every turn..

I'm not sure if there is a strategy for you to win this game consistently. All I have figured out so far is a base a month until you get world wide radar coverage, obtain air superiority with Foxtrots and well, don't lose missions. But the last one seems pretty hard to achieve if on Ironman. You are at the whim of the RPJesus.
 

KoolNoodles

Arcane
Joined
Apr 28, 2012
Messages
3,545
I don't know why this jumped out at me, but one aspect of Xenonauts' writing really really annoys me. It's usually the final 1-2 sentences of a research project where the "scientist" tries to put in a funny(not funny) jab at dumb engineers or something, or a dumb joke. It just does not fit at all with the rest of the text and is really jarring. Don't try to be funny or cute with your writing, you are neither. Just leave it at the description/history/science fiction stuff.
 

Gozma

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Aug 1, 2012
Messages
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Anyone played Enemy Within + the Long War mod? I watched some LP of the first month of it and it seems like it makes things much more interesting, but I dunno if it does anything to make the weak majority of EU (third month+ basically) better. This is a Steam sale related time sensitive question

Xenonauts has gotten itself in that "I know it will be a better and cheaper game in 6 months" state for me
 

Zeriel

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Jun 17, 2012
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Anyone played Enemy Within + the Long War mod? I watched some LP of the first month of it and it seems like it makes things much more interesting, but I dunno if it does anything to make the weak majority of EU (third month+ basically) better. This is a Steam sale related time sensitive question

Xenonauts has gotten itself in that "I know it will be a better and cheaper game in 6 months" state for me

Yes, I've played a lot of it, basically to the final mission.

Highlights:



Squad size now starts at 6. The squad size increase upgrades are still available, and take it up to 8 for all missions. (Except a particular Exalt infiltration mission type that limits you to 4 soldiers.) There is a late-game upgrade to the Skyranger that ups the soldier cap per mission to 10-12 varying on mission type. It only applies to "special" missions, like invading alien bases, exalt bases, et cetera. All normal abduction/ship missions cap at 8.

Soldiers start out a lot weaker, especially in will. You'll miss much more, and even one point of damage can cause panic. Panic can chain very quickly on rookies, too. This panic effect tapers off pretty quickly with ranks, though, so it's just another "laugh at the horrible first mission fuckups" quality, though occasionally it rears its head and makes the game more interesting later on. There is also a basically free soldier item that eliminates panic chains from others taking damage/dying, costing a slot that would be used on grenades or medikits and so on.

Speaking of difficulty, play on Normal. Trust me. I play on Classic/Iron-Man and Impossible/Iron-Man in vanilla XEW without blinking, but they changed so many things under the hood here that difficulties above Normal are punishing, not a baseline challenging experience. The game feels close to Classic did originally on Normal in Long War, with the added caveat that difficulty scales much better throughout the game. This is my favorite change in Long War, actually. They added aliens upgrading their troops. This means as time goes on, alien troops improve, just as yours do. Even sectoids will see their HP increase. Leaders of alien packs (1 per "pod") have higher stats than the rest, and often have special abilities... like, say, Lightning Reflexes on a chrysallid, so all your reaction shots miss. Enjoy.

Aliens now act with a sort of independent agency on the globe. I know this still has to be scripted, but the effect is interesting. Essentially, aliens are always trying to perform missions and goals. Some of them are very important to the aliens, and you can't thwart them early on. For example, it is possible to see a battleship (the biggest ship in the game) flying over your continent in the first month. There's no way to shoot it down, or survive a capture mission on it. One really cool aspect of the aliens having goals: the invasion of XCOM's base is now based on your performance. If you're really kicking the alien's ass when you shouldn't be they get angry, and move up the base invasion. Apparently it also requires a ton of resources from them, so it's not a free scripted event to punish you, either.

You're expected to ignore threats that are beyond your capabilities. It's ordinary practice to straight-up ignore the first terror mission of the game. Which loses you a country automatically. Oh, I didn't mention that countries can now be taken back, did I? Alien bases are now a repeatable mission type you can perform on any country that has left XCOM to get it back into the fold. It uses the same map as before, so my god is it repetitive, but it's still a nice addition.

There's a ton of new research options/classes/weapons. If something existed in the original XCOM, chances are it's been changed.

Now, the bad. The interception minigame is in my opinion a mess. Early on, you'll struggle to take down the lightest alien craft with interceptors. The projects that improve your interceptors performance are hugely expensive and time-consuming, and the typical research path is railroaded into getting to Firestorm as soon as possible, because as before it represents a step up from "well we can barely keep order" to "we are destroying everything now". They wanted to make it so you're forced to choose between what you want to let through your defenses, but the end result isn't very fun. This is one of the very few things I modded myself when I played Long War. It just isn't very interesting to me to wait 7 days for a jet to refuel. (Yeah, you heard me. Not making that one up.)

There are still a few bugs, some gamebreaking. Late-game, a hex edit is required to make it so the overseer ship isn't always destroyed in interception. Another hex edit is required to allow MECs to use advanced weapons. Not a big deal if you're an enthusiast, but these bugs are being fixed in the next version along with a ton of new features, so you're probably better off waiting. If you enjoyed XCOM for what it was and have been away long enough for it to seem fresh, this mod will probably be a lot of fun for you. That's about all I can say about it.

Oh, and there's a Second Wave option to make Long War shorter. I didn't try it out, but you really should. My playthrough that got close to the end was clocking into the hundreds of hours--if you're a perfectionist and check out every UFO crash, you're looking at dozens of missions every month. Shit doesn't play around. It's called "Long" War for a reason.
 
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it's interesting but i still have the definitive question: i utterly hated xcom, may i be entertained by xcom + enemy within + long war?
 

Zeriel

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Messages
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Not likely, unless your reasons for hating XCOM were down to stuff like squad size or how mission choices were handled. It is a complete rework of XCOM, but it still uses the same engine and limitations.
 
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so still free moves for aliens, teleporting alien squads, overpowered/useless skills, weapons all the same, almost no customizability in equipment, terrible joypad based interface, horrible hand-holding maps, poor base expansion and so on?
 

SuicideBunny

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Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Torment: Tides of Numenera
skills are different (more, different functionality), weapons are different (more tiers), armors are different(more tiers), classes are different and differently handled, lots more equipment, bigger alien group sizes and lots of other stuff.
 

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