XXX Nightshift - true detective RPG from former Disco Elysium developers

[luj1]

On the plus side, this means a potential three new RPGs, which is always nice...

 

[v1c70r14]

There's something deeply ironic about leftists working on a project that's capitalism's concept of art, serialized production of hollowed out shapes for the sake of having something to put on the market, not willing to take financial risks by creating something new. Every novel idea exploited for another point of reference for copies to be made until they totally lose their appeal and the next genuine artist is found to be leeched off from.
I believe they try to inject leftist politics into the capitalist products, as part of their personal guerilla war against capitalism. That's how they justify their careers to themselves, they may even consider these injections art.

Respectfully, I don't think you understand why I find it ironic. I'm not saying it is ironic they have careers or that they are hypocrites for enjoying the fruits of capitalism, in fact, you should expect a Marxist to be a good capitalist, focused on material gain and money, status, luxury. It's a common liberal misunderstanding confusing them with ascetics or something when they think it's funny that Marxists would be the ones to get the latest iPhone, when the idea of Marxism was entirely aimed at the access to mass produced goods, luxury items, and services. In the ideal version of the USSR they would have delivered sturdier, sleeker, faster and better cars than the capitalist Americans, essentially it was a dream of Capitalism+, and some of those promises were delivered on, being a system doing away with planned obsolescence. As comfy as the Lada was however many would pick an American car over it, partly for aesthetics, status, but depending on the customer it might be due to a more impressive engine. The ideal however was affordable and reliable while at the same time luxurious cars for all, or iPhones, if the USSR was still around for it.

Moving on to the notion of injecting subversive ideas into capitalist products this is certainly very old hat, not just their idea of kulturkampf going back to the likes of Gramsci, but also people pointing it out from the other side of the aisle. I'm sure that most people that worked on the Marvel movies that audiences became fatigued with identified themselves as leftists, if not Marxists. It's harder to find American liberal-capitalist media not produced by self-proclaimed leftists than the opposite, and there is something funny about leftists manufacturing the very things that people point to as the excesses of capitalism in the first place and use as examples of the terrible culture liberalism produces. It's gotten to a point where some people on the right now think it's a conspiracy to sink American (NATO, capitalist, etc.) cultural hegemony into the ground and have the Taoist neo-fascist Chinese buy up the companies for cheap. Sealing the superiority of state capitalism.

I don't think Disco Elysium was the same thing as all that though. Assuredly it was a cultural item on the capitalist market, but I also think it was a labor of love, and one with a lot of heart and soul despite what I might think of the writing. Kurvitz put a lot of himself in there and in terms of artistic expression it seemed genuine enough. Aleksander Rostov, too, was highly inspired.

There are now four studios competing for the legacy of that game, and out of them all this seems the most exploitative. Dark Math building a sleazy cheap copy on top of the ossified remains of Disco, a bullet point list that looks like it came out of a parody of a pitch meeting. I'm reminded of the meta self-referential meeting in The Matrix 4 about the film itself, people without any real understanding of the artistic impulse behind it gathering together what they thought made it successful and tweaking it according to market research for a by-the-numbers sequel, totally cynical and with nothing to say. Following the same format simply because it got good reviews and sold a decent amount. Someone thought the detective setup of Disco was key, so they copied that part, despite it being simply an excuse to present other things. That's why it is ironic, what made Disco significant was artistry and novelty, the opposite of this.

Kurvitz and Rostov have yet to showcase anything they are working on at Red Info, but it's telling that they signed up with an arm of the Chinese Communist Party, if they have another project in them remains to be seen.

Longdue, despite me making fun of, and finding it hilarious, the concept of psychogeography, which has as much revolutionary potential as interpretive dance, does seem to have a vision of their own for a game. To be fair to them it seems actually not that ill suited to games, the notion of taking walks in spaces and exploring the vibes mentally, since that's such a large part of the experience to begin with. Maybe something good is yet to come out of the French intellectuals that American intelligence backed to turn people towards academic and intellectual masturbation instead of real world issues and action. We'll see.

The most admirable offshoot so far by my estimation is Summer Eternal, with Argo Tuulik and Olga Moskvina, who have pipedreams of a development co-operative which probably won't pan out. Which is a shame, developer led projects sometimes produce the best results whether they are indies that self-fund or something like Gathering of Developers.

"It will definitely not be a Disco Elysium sequel!" Tuulik continued. "It is time to break away from the past and start a new chapter. It will be a completely new setting and story with new mechanics. But end of the day we are who we are and RPGs are what we will make - do what you will with it "

They have zero assets to show off and had to announce themselves to not let these other studios steal all the limelight as the legacy of ZA/UM, but since they have no intentions of making a knockoff Disco it's for a good cause to self-promote like that. Perhaps they'll even make a more proper RPG.

 

[Iucounu]

there is something funny about leftists manufacturing the very things that people point to as the excesses of capitalism in the first place and use as examples of the terrible culture liberalism produces.

Indeed, and then they make the capitalist products even worse with their leftist injections. How they shoot themselves in the foot like that is what I find ironic...

There are now four studios competing for the legacy of that game, and out of them all this seems the most exploitative. Dark Math building a sleazy cheap copy on top of the ossified remains of Disco, a bullet point list that looks like it came out of a parody of a pitch meeting. I'm reminded of the meta self-referential meeting in The Matrix 4 about the film itself, people without any real understanding of the artistic impulse behind it gathering together what they thought made it successful and tweaking it according to market research for a by-the-numbers sequel, totally cynical and with nothing to say. Following the same format simply because it got good reviews and sold a decent amount. Someone thought the detective setup of Disco was key, so they copied that part, despite it being simply an excuse to present other things. That's why it is ironic, what made Disco significant was artistry and novelty, the opposite of this.

I haven't played Disco Elyseum (I was just commenting on your post in isolation). But the above sounds like business as usual in the entertainment world (and why I'd never want my favorite novels to be made into movies or games).

 

[SixDead]

We play as a woman? Interesting, could she be raped during the game?
There was a rape scene in Winter Voices, where you also play as a girl, and I almost cried reading it

 

[v1c70r14]

But the above sounds like business as usual in the entertainment world (and why I'd never want my favorite novels to be made into movies or games).

It is partly inherent to the creative process, since many want to make art but few have the spark and genius to have something to contribute. But it's equally due to, if not mostly due to, the economic system and structure. There's a reason many artists, and filmmakers for that matter, have a nostalgia for the USSR. Its culture not hollowed out in this way, although in others that proponents don't want to talk about. Here's a section of a developer diary from Summer Eternal so you can see what I mean when I say I find them the most laudable, even if I don't agree with their politics.

https://summereternal.com/blog/welcome-to-the-eternal-season

 

[Iucounu]

But the above sounds like business as usual in the entertainment world (and why I'd never want my favorite novels to be made into movies or games).

It is partly inherent to the creative process, since many want to make art but few have the spark and genius to have something to contribute.

And also the courage to believe in your own style. Even many financially independent artists are so awed by others that they spend most of their time trying to imitate them, never wanting to become more than a clone.

But it's equally due to, if not mostly due to, the economic system and structure. There's a reason many artists, and filmmakers for that matter, have a nostalgia for the USSR. Its culture not hollowed out in this way, although in others that proponents don't want to talk about.

Don't government/EU grants work the same way in the West, with political strings attached just like in the USSR? Or did the latter mostly forbid you from doing certain things (like critizing the regime), as opposed to forcing you to include things (like the wokeism in the West)?

Here's a section of a developer diary from Summer Eternal so you can see what I mean when I say I find them the most laudable, even if I don't agree with their politics.

https://summereternal.com/blog/welcome-to-the-eternal-season

I suppose games may start becoming art once development cost goes down enough that fear of financial ruin is not the main motivator. It may also help if developers stop dreaming of making games primarily to get rich, of course.

 

[Fenix]

But the above sounds like business as usual in the entertainment world (and why I'd never want my favorite novels to be made into movies or games).

It is partly inherent to the creative process, since many want to make art but few have the spark and genius to have something to contribute. But it's equally due to, if not mostly due to, the economic system and structure. There's a reason many artists, and filmmakers for that matter, have a nostalgia for the USSR. Its culture not hollowed out in this way, although in others that proponents don't want to talk about. Here's a section of a developer diary from Summer Eternal so you can see what I mean when I say I find them the most laudable, even if I don't agree with their politics.

https://summereternal.com/blog/welcome-to-the-eternal-season

Thanks, that Summer Eternal piece was exciting read. Love that stuff, and that they looking at the root of a problems.

 

[GhostInTheHell]

The involvement of Argo Tuulik (former writer on Disco Elysium, now working at game dev collective Summer Eternal) in the XXX Nightshift project has now been revealed.
And also a confirmation of the involvement of Riaz Moola (owns Longdue Ltd (https://find-and-update.company-inf...cers/B5DQ8GeIfn7KmfqWLHNPIk5RjEw/appointments) and CoGrammar (aka HyperionDev, apparently some scam-like coding bootcamp)).

1. https://x.com/mixedmartialarx/status/1857451477033234551
2. https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/a...hird-blocking-him-from-working-on-a-new-game/

Argo Tuulik (former writer on Disco Elysium, now working at game dev collective Summer Eternal) has been sued by Riaz Moola.
The same is probably true for Dora Klindzic (former writer on Disco Elysium, now also working at Summer Eternal) as she is also an addressee of the letter from Riaz Moola's attorney (https://x.com/mixedmartialarx/status/1857451492887650537/photo/2) and mentioned as a defendant in the claim form.

Riaz Moola which is the entity where the legal threats come from. This is confirmed by Argo who states he never signed a contract with Longdue Ltd itself (https://x.com/mixedmartialarx/status/1857546153979469996).

Longdue, who are making an unannounced title, had said before "that it is working on a Disco-inspired RPG, with a "dozen strong" staff that includes some former members of Studio ZA/UM (...) Longdue has not disclosed which former developers from Studio ZA/UM are part of the team". (https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/t...a-a-spiritual-successor-psychogeographic-rpg/)
Longdue indeed has a pretty weak claim to be a ZA/UM successor studio.
Turns out from what Argo Tuulik has now released on Twitter, that it was likely just Argo Tuulik and Dora Klindzic doing some consulting work for Longdue (and for Dark Math).
This has worked out well for Riaz Moola, as Longdue who can now make that claim that they had at that time former members (plural) of ZA/UM.

The legal Claims Form which is shown partially at Argo's twitter post https://x.com/mixedmartialarx/status/1857451492887650537/photo/3 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Gcb-SghX0AAlAgF?format=jpg&name=large) shows the allegations made by Riaz Moola:

"Defendants [Argo and Dora] were each engaged by the Claimant [CoGrammar Limited (=Riaz Moola)] pursuant (...) contracts. Ds' consultancy contracts with C terminated on 30 September (...) giving one week's notice to terminate their contracts. Ds have acted (...) the Court threaten to continue to act, in breach of (reasonable and (...)) post-termination non-compete covenants contained in their contracts. C seeeks (...) injunctive relief to restrain Ds from breaching the non-compete covenants (...)

It is unclear whether Argo or Dora even showed up to defend themselves. The requested injunction was apparently issued by the UK court.
It appears from this, that in a total lapse of good judgment, Argo and Dora may have signed a consulting contract under UK law (a bad idea in itself), which contained a broad non-compete clause!
Such clause (which would be less likely to be enforced by the court if they had taken the status of part-time employees instead of "consultants") has the obvious effect of limiting their ability to work in the gaming industry entirely going forward for a certain period of time (April 2025).
Including preventing them from working at Summer Eternal, their new game development cooperative.

If this is what they signed, it seems they may be good writers of games, but terrible readers of contracts.
It is also somewhat ironic that such left leaning devs would escew a status as a worker (employee) and opt for a consultancy contract, and one controlled by (colonial/ultracapitalist) UK law at that.
At the same time, Argo is seeing a grand counter-revolutionary conspiracy behind all of this "The Za/Moola--Riaz/UM alliance has been behind my legal struggles and silence as of late." (https://x.com/mixedmartialarx/status/1857451481336615036)

Linking Dark Math Games (working on XXX Nightshift) to this, is Longdue's statement in today's PCGamer article: "Argo Tuulik was a part of Longdue’s team in the early days of Longdue’s formation, as well as previously Dark Math. However, as a studio, we have since grown in a direction that did not align with his approach."
Dark Math Games consists of Kaur Kender (producer on Disco Elysium) and Timo Albert (trailer guy for Disco Elysium). So also a pretty weak claim to be a ZA/UM successor. Argo Tuulik's involvement had not been made public before.
It seems Riaz Moola is/was somehow also in control of Dark Math in a vague way (https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rpg/disco-elysium-successor-studios-overview/#section-longdue)

"Riaz Moola, was quoted in in the [Longdue] studio's initial press release. Moola is a tech executive and Forbes 30 under 30er, and I was previously contacted by him from a Dark Math Games email address⁠—Dark Math being the next studio on this list."

However, Argo's tweet implies that Riaz Moola may be no longer affiliated with Dark Math games: https://x.com/mixedmartialarx/status/1857451478585049319 ("baseless legal threats from zaum with whom Moola is collaborating against myself, Dora, Summer E and Dark Math Games.").

 

[Fenix]

Sum the fuck up this.

 

[GhostInTheHell]

Sum the fuck up this.

Argo Tuulik (former writer on Disco Elysium, now working at game dev collective Summer Eternal) and probably also Dora Klindzic, have been sued by Riaz Moola (who owns Longdue Ltd, another supposed ZA/UM successor studio and CoGrammar (aka HyperionDev, apparently some scam-like coding bootcamp)).

Instead of insisting on being classed as temporary workers (employees), these devs apparently signed a "freelance" consultancy contract with (strangely) a broad non-compete, which is slightly hypocritical for supposedly pro-worker devs.

The outcome of the court case prevents them from working at Summer Eternal until April 2025.

Argo Tuulik is instead blaming a conspiracy between ZA/UM and Riaz Moola, without offering any proof.

This has also revealed links between both Riaz Moola, Argo Tuulik and Dark Math Games, which is developing XXX Nightshift.

 

[Hydro]

DE just can’t stop stirring shit
Quite an irony indeed that all this kind of resembles the game plot’s main antagonism, albeit in a bit of a different light. The ultimate evil is very prominent though — a capital? A human nature?
They’ve really gone deeply meta with all this afterparty.

 

[gooseman]

these petty, faggy infights are the most entertaining part of disco elysium for sure

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

They’ve really gone deeply meta with all this afterparty.

 

[KVVRR]

I guess that explains why Summer Eternal was going to start actually developing stuff (or as a company? I fail to remember) on April 1st.