All roads lead to the same end in Mass Effect

[SpaceKungFuMan]

The first online review of Mass Effect has been posted, and it confirms the fears of many posters here. I'll let author describe the problem in his own words:

With a mass of achievements still waiting for me, I’ve already started working on my “evil” character, which is much more of a Biotic talent junkie. I am saddened to find out most of the character responses are exactly the same on the opposite end of the conversation spectrum, but it has opened up a couple new side-story options. Also, I’m very intrigued to change the main storyline choices that I made to discover the various, different endings.

http://www.videogametalk.com/review.php ... 32552e8986

So, while the game might have a few branch points, it doesn't seem to have the kind of dialog based choice and consequences that actually let you play different types of characters. It looks like even without the limitations of the Star Wars Universe, Bioware couldn't make anything but a linear game that only varies based on which extreme you fall into on the dark/light side continuum. . .

 

[pkt-zer0]

Opposite from the turn-based combat in KOTOR

*cough*

The codex is a shockingly vast collection of information on nearly every subject within Mass Effect.

Up to, and including, multi-headed dicks (hitting ass and leg). [/lame joke]

Planets all look pretty much the same in terms of structure, but offer different types of terrain like grass, lava and snow. [...] Unfortunately, visiting planets is easily the most boring aspect of the game.

Not really unexpected.

Mass Effect certainly has flaws, but it’s easily the most enthralling space adventure that’s ever been created for a video game platform. It honestly makes the Halo narrative look like amateur hour.

Uh-oh, this could be trouble.


Also, SpaceKungFuMan, weren't you the one who started off the "meet the devs" threads on the Fallout 3 boards?

 

[Otingocni]

It looks like even without the limitations of the Star Wars Universe, Bioware could not make anything but a linear game that only varies based on which extreme you fall into on the dark/light side continuum. . .

We learned that with Jade Empire, which coincidently started this lets copy KOTOR mechanics and simply rename them with every game trend. Goes well with the carbon-copied plots, characters, quests, romances, and situations you find in any recent BioWare game.

 

[User was nabbed fit]

Damn. Visiting planets could've been well fuckin' cool. So much potential in just that single thing.

 

[SuicideBunny]

meh, so those really were fake dialogue choices...

 

[Edward_R_Murrow]

Locales are basically one of four types;

-Main-quest related locales filled with the majority of content.

-Side quest related locales with some volume of content or maybe some nifty exploration.

-Sort of dungeon-like "thar be enemies" places which exist to provide loot and possibly level scaled enemies.

Places that exist only to be scanned/mined.

Haven't seen too many serious choice/consequence scenarios yet, but I'm hoping for a few at least seeing as I'm not far in at all under my current time constraints. The inclusion of dialogue skills and generally a bit of skill based leveling makes me rather pleased, though I'm not sure how often the dialogue skills actually make a big play in the game.

Combat....is a mixed bag....I'll talk more about it in the review I'll probably write along with some other things like companions, dialogue in general, choices, consequences, and the rest. It probably will be finished before December, if the game is truly as short as I've heard and doesn't display some serious choices/consequences.

Also thank you supplier connections.

 

[SpaceKungFuMan]

Also, SpaceKungFuMan, weren't you the one who started off the "meet the devs" threads on the Fallout 3 boards?

Yeah, that was me. At the time, there was basically no point to those boards, since most attempts at intelligent discussion were drowned out by Oblivion fans. I felt like at the least, the boards should be a way to see what games the developers of Fallout 3 like. Needless to say, this was all rendered moot when they showed off the FPS catastrophe that is Fallout 3. At least some of the writers have a good sense of humor, based on their posts, so maybe the dialog will be ok. . .

 

[Otingocni]

At least some of the writers have a good sense of humor, based on their posts, so maybe the dialog will be ok. . .

Unfortunately any hint of cleverness in dialogs will have to make it past the army of producers (headed up by the infamous Todd Howard) Bethesda has on the payroll, so I would not bet on much of it actually being present in the final game.

 

[Annonchinil]

I am a bit confused about choices and consequences.

To me story/morality based choices and consequences for the most part, with the exception of Planescape Torment, are meaningless since in most games I couldn't care less for the story or the morality.

On the other hand I do care about C&C when they come to quest design. So far, are their multiple and interesting ways to complete each quest, or are they all funneled through the too-obvious light/dark dichotomy?

 

[RK47]

curious about it as well is there a marginal victory or is there only total good win, or total evil shit outcomes?

I really wonder why people would decline side missions especially when it gives more xp and loot , the bread and butter of current RPG motivation. Unless by skipping it would potentially lead to a more rewarding situation I see no downside to it.

 

[KreideBein]

Planets all look pretty much the same in terms of structure, but offer different types of terrain like grass, lava and snow. [...] Unfortunately, visiting planets is easily the most boring aspect of the game.

That's too bad; exploring the game's universe was something that I was really looking forward to. The news about how little the dialog changes in response to the chosen "morality path" of the player is rather lame, too. Oh well, looks like it'll still be a fun sci-fi romp; I'll probably pick it up once the price drops a bit.

 

[Xi]

For those who are wondering about the possible trilogy aspect, be assured that you will receive a clear, decisive ending to this portion of the tale. It’s extremely satisfying and still does a great job of setting up a sequel.

The quest for money continues. Obviously, multiple different endings make a trilogy epic difficult to achieve. Solution - an illusion in actions where the reality is that character choices are cosmetic and pointless. Another solid win for RPGs.

I am saddened to find out most of the character responses are exactly the same on the opposite end of the conversation spectrum, but it has opened up a couple new side-story options. Also, I’m very intrigued to change the main storyline choices that I made to discover the various, different endings.

I'm assuming that different mini-quest outcomes can be different, but again, not the main storyline.

It would have been interesting to take the trilogy aspect and let the player decide what role they play in it. Sure, the outcomes can be the same, but the play throughs are entirely different and involve completely different interaction. Good, Evil, and Neutral. However you want to define it. Each with its own separate game, all paths coexisting and interweaving throughout until a final climactic ending. That would have been classier.

 

[Gwendo]

There are ambiguous dilemma in conversations, but I think they don't have a real impact in the story.

Example:

One guy asks for my help. He says his wife died in combat for the Alliance, but the Alliance refused to send him the body for unknown reasons. He asked me if I could pull some strings and return her corpse to him, for a proper burial and such.
I went to talk with an officer, and he said that woman was one of the victims of an alien attack, with some unknown weapons. By examining her strange wounds, they could research about that unknown technology and, who knows, save more lives in the future. (you can ask how long it would take, if it could really help the Alliance, etc). Your choice: use your influence and intimidation to convince the officer to return the body to the woman's husband, or try to talk with him and reasoning about the benefits of donating the body for research?

It was an interesting conversation, and I've made my choice. I still didn't get any feedback about my choice (besides concluding that side-quest and respective XP).

 

[made]

LOL who cares about that stuff when I can customize my avatar to look exactly how I want?!

 

[fastpunk]

I wasn't exactly hoping for a revolution but I thought Bioware could improve on past mistakes... be more careful about the black and white morality or the c&c but it seems they're just lazy.

 

[Ismaul]

I wasn't exactly hoping for a revolution but I thought Bioware could improve on past mistakes... be more careful about the black and white morality or the c&c but it seems they're just lazy.

I hoped that too, with the way they were talking about it. Looks like they had to up the marketing ante to keep up with Oblivion. But Mass Effect is done by their RPG "lite" team. It's not going to have extensive roleplaying like Dragon Age (I hope so, at least). What you can expect though is polish, and a reasonably well-written dialogue and story that relishes in its clichés. If that part and the combat are good, it'll make for a solid and fun aRPG. That's what Bioware does well anyways.

 

[TheLostOne]

Haven't gotten yet, so I can't confirm, but I've been reading that Paragon/Renegade aren't really dark/light type choices all the time. Many times you need to choose the Renegade option to "do the right thing" if it requires breaking the law. Similarly there are Paragon choices which could be looked at as "lawful evil" choices. I'm sure, however, that far more often they fall under the common good/evil categories. After all, law is supposed to uphold justice which is "good" right? They conflict sometimes because the law or the enforcers of the law are imperfect.

Either way, it sounds to me like they are attempting to break away from the "good vs evil" view of things. JE tried to do it in concept, but the closed fist paths were usually not representative of the closed fist philosophy. They are trying though.

Also, supposedly all the endings are save the galaxy type endings. This is inteded to be a 3 part series after all and the destruction of life in the univers might hamper the options in making a sequel. However, there are 2 endings with major differences in the outcome of the galaxy and for each about 3 minor variations.

Considering they need to continue the storyline over the next games, I don't think they could have branched the endings much more than that considering how each major branch would have an exponential effect on the amount of content in the sequels, assuming that your choices in the first game are reflected in the second.

 

[Volourn]

"I wasn't exactly hoping for a revolution but I thought Bioware could improve on past mistakes... be more careful about the black and white morality or the c&c but it seems they're just lazy."

Huh? Gwendo's example doesn't seem to sound like a good vs evil type choice to me. It's most definitely not black and white.

 

[Admiral Rimjob POOBUM]

According to one guy I was talking to, they've replaced "good" and "evil" with "complete asshole who's not a bad guy at heart" and "completely unredeemable military dickhead".
Which sounds fine to me.

 

[SuicideBunny]

According to one guy I was talking to, they've replaced "good" and "evil" with "complete asshole who's not a bad guy at heart" and "completely unredeemable military dickhead".
Which sounds fine to me.

it is, does make the distribution of said points seem rather arcane at time though... tell people who are performing a military maneuver while chit chatting about command staff to cut the chatter, bang, renegade points. make uber awesome inspiring speech, bang, renegade points. offer a vile criminal the option to go to jail or resist arrest, bang, renegade points. wtf.

 

[obediah]

So, while the game might have a few branch points, it doesn't seem to have the kind of dialog based choice and consequences that actually let you play different types of characters. It looks like even without the limitations of the Star Wars Universe, Bioware couldn't make anything but a linear game that only varies based on which extreme you fall into on the dark/light side continuum. . .

Bioware has been very clear for a very long time about their stance on c&c, and have provided the reasons behind their decision. I can't say I agree with it, but it is a reasoned stance, and doesn't deserve cheap shots.

They want to make sure the resources they put into development are appreciated by as many of the players as possible. Most players don't replay games many times with different characters, so most of the content will be available to any character. They still add in a few nuggets to encourage replay, and provide an illusion of choice&consequences, so those that only play the game once might believe they made an important decision.

If you want to get riled up, talk about the dialog lobotomy for Mass Effect. I can't wait to spend hours carefully deciding whether "Let's get them!", "They're mine!", "Hell Yeah!", or "What?" better expresses my characters thoughts.

 

[RK47]

Ah...yeah I remember that now. Oh well, it's not a bad C&C sample given. I just hope the PC version came with extras heheh.

 

[MetalCraze]

I am saddened to find out most of the character responses are exactly the same on the opposite end of the conversation spectrum

actually I was expecting this. based on all screenshots, trailers etc.
so... do we have the worst role-playing game from Bioware to date?

Huh? Gwendo's example doesn't seem to sound like a good vs evil type choice to me. It's most definitely not black and white.

yep it seems they've replaced black and white with meaningless and meaningless

 

[Volourn]

"so... do we have the worst role-playing game from Bioware to date?"

Except ME isn't a RPG. It's a Action RPG.

 

[Lumpy]

Huh? Gwendo's example doesn't seem to sound like a good vs evil type choice to me. It's most definitely not black and white.

yep it seems they've replaced black and white with meaningless and meaningless

Moron.
How do you even know that you won't gain advantages later on if you don't get the body back. Also, who gives a fuck if they're meaningful or not? I don't remember any consequences for the "Get my dead contract back" in PST, but it was still a really fun quest.