All roads lead to the same end in Mass Effect

[MetalCraze]

Huh? Gwendo's example doesn't seem to sound like a good vs evil type choice to me. It's most definitely not black and white.

yep it seems they've replaced black and white with meaningless and meaningless

Moron.
How do you even know that you won't gain advantages later on if you don't get the body back. Also, who gives a fuck if they're meaningful or not? I don't remember any consequences for the "Get my dead contract back" in PST, but it was still a really fun quest.

let's wait and we will know, but according to that review - your choices mostly do not mean anything. As for PST example - one thing if there are only few quests where you choice doesn't mean anything and the other thing is when you playing the totally other way but getting the same results.

 

[Volourn]

"ep it seems they've replaced black and white with meaningless and meaningless"

The argument was that it was 'black and white or 'evil vs. good' type choices like always. The quest example given shows that isn't the case. You wer eproven wrong. Just admit. btw, Most quests/decisions in the Codex favorite games tend not to have long term results either; but are still meaningful choices for the PC as it effects the game world, the player's view of his character, and how others' interact with them. It doesn't have to have some super duper world changing effect.

ie. In Shady Sands, when you sleep at the inn and the hostage crisis occurs. There's some choices which effect the outcome of that 'quest' yet it has no long term effects; but it still works and is fun and is meaningful.

Game over, FUCKIN' DUDE, game over.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

I can't believe I'm saying it, but I'm with Volourn on this one.

 

[MetalCraze]

ok now, where did I say anything about your choices not having consequences? Nowhere. I said that you will have your consequences that are mostly the same for your another choice.

 

[Lumpy]

ok now, where did I say anything about your choices not having consequences? Nowhere. I said that you will have your consequences that are mostly the same for your another choice.

What? It's pretty clear. You do one thing, and the body gets scientified upon. You do the other, and the widow gets the body back.

 

[MetalCraze]

ok now, where did I say anything about your choices not having consequences? Nowhere. I said that you will have your consequences that are mostly the same for your another choice.

What? It's pretty clear. You do one thing, and the body gets scientified upon. You do the other, and the widow gets the body back.

I was not speaking solely about this quest and I do agree that ME has branching (but in a small quantity).
still I would like to know if giving a body to a widow or to scientists will have any different consequence than gaining xp/money.

 

[Annonchinil]

Except the dead contract quest in PS:T made me atleast some what care about the characters and it was also unique to its setting. If this quest in ME is anything like that than maybe it will be good.

Anyways a more grey choice would be that the husband wants her body so that he can sell her organs.

 

[Lumpy]

Actually, that would clearly make the husband the bad guy. In the current situation, there is no 'good' solution, it depends on your character to decide what to do.

 

[SpaceKungFuMan]

I actually think this body quest sounds pretty good. Even if the quests don't impact the world at large, it is nice to have divergent outcomes for them. The real questions as I see it are 1) Will most quests actually have different paths/outcomes, or as the review suggests, do most paths lead to the same outcome? and 2) Can you effect the world/your character through seemingly innocuous choices, or are the actual c&c moments displayed in bold flashing letters?

 

[SpaceKungFuMan]

From the IGN review

Though you are faced with many tough decisions with the paragon and renegade system, few of your actions appear to affect anything in the long term. In KOTOR, you had one decision to gas a planet to make finishing a quest easier. Doing this, however, raised the price of medkits for the remainder of the game (since you just gassed the plants used for medicine throughout the galaxy). That same level of cause and effect seems fairly absent in Mass Effect.

 

[MetalCraze]

exactly my reason of complaining.
(to nitpickers - not the absence of "affect teh planat" you idiots - but the major absence of the real consequences, considering that it seems that you're saving the world. again)

 

[Volourn]

Sounds like the vast majority of quests in FO. *yawn* Most FO quest solutions don't have long term consequences.

 

[SpaceKungFuMan]

Sounds like the vast majority of quests in FO. *yawn* Most FO quest solutions don't have long term consequences.

Most don't, but many do. Without having played the game, we can't know for sure just how much c&c the game has. But you have to keep in mind that most modern "rpgs" have little to no actual player choices, and the reviewers don't mention it. The fact that these reviewers are consistently mentioning the lack of c&c as a negative raises a red flag for me. These are the same reviewers that praised Oblivion of having c&c for gods sake!

 

[Volourn]

"Most don't, but many do."

Nah. Some do, most don't.


"But you have to keep in mind that most modern "rpgs" have little to no actual player choices, and the reviewers don't mention it."

Actually, most RPGs have little to no actual player choices. Period. Modern RPgs tend to have more than their predecessors. Fallout is an EXEMPTION to this long standing rule.


"These are the same reviewers that praised Oblivion of having c&c for gods sake!"

Yet you take their opinions seriously? L0L Whose more foolish? The ones who praised Oblivion or the ones who actually take thems eriously? HA!


"The fact that these reviewers are consistently mentioning the lack of c&c as a negative raises a red flag for me."

Yet, most reviews don't suggest that. This review doesn't equal most reviews. Most rveiews point out that most C&C aren't long term or universe spanning. That's far different than a lack of C&C.

the reviews mention how your choices can effect how your npc party members react, how quests are completed, what rewards are, how others' react to you, etc., etc. Sounds like C&C to me.




SPOILERS AHEAD:

"A case in point - the game forces you to decide who should live out of two of your compatriots"

" One mission presents an opportunity to kill off an alien race for good. If you do, your Codex, an evolving historical record of the galaxy, will mark that species as extinct."


"In another situation, a journalist asks you for a few comments on your mission to save the universe. Storm off in a childish huff and later in the game you'll be informed of how public opinion is turning against you back on Earth, and how a PR machine has been put in motion to smooth things over"

 

[SpaceKungFuMan]

SPOILERS AHEAD:

"A case in point - the game forces you to decide who should live out of two of your compatriots"

" One mission presents an opportunity to kill off an alien race for good. If you do, your Codex, an evolving historical record of the galaxy, will mark that species as extinct."


"In another situation, a journalist asks you for a few comments on your mission to save the universe. Storm off in a childish huff and later in the game you'll be informed of how public opinion is turning against you back on Earth, and how a PR machine has been put in motion to smooth things over"

Well, these all sound very good. I did not see any mention of quests like these in the two reviews that I read. Of course, we're still left with the problem of all the dialog choices leading to the same outcome, but that's sadly very common now.

I guess that shitty combat is the only thing to really be wary of now. Why couldn't they have at least left in the ability to que commands to squad members? Hopefully they'll fix that for the PC version.

 

[dragonfk]

Well, these all sound very good. I did not see any mention of quests like these in the two reviews that I read.

There are 2 possible reasons for that.

1. Reviewers dont pay that much attention to c&c and consider it as unimportant.

2. It wouldnt be the first time when review gets online without reviewer beating the game till the end ( some The Witcher reviews indicated that they were based solely on Act I).

And I thought that recent The Witcher had some long term c&c. So its not entirely true about new games and lack of c&c in them.

 

[SpaceKungFuMan]

There are 2 possible reasons for that.

1. Reviewers dont pay that much attention to c&c and consider it as unimportant.

2. It wouldnt be the first time when review gets online without reviewer beating the game till the end ( some The Witcher reviews indicated that they were based solely on Act I).

And I thought that recent The Witcher had some long term c&c. So its not entirely true about new games and lack of c&c in them.

It does seem strange that they would complain about the lack of c&c despite these types of examples. I suspect that either the examples are overstated in the review Volourn used, or that you're correct and the reviewers didn't really finish the game.

When I said "modern rpg" I basically meant the crap that gets the big media attention (and ends up on consoles), moreso than games like MotB or the Witcher that are more in the spirit of the older games we know and love.

 

[MetalCraze]

it's not about long-term consequences Volly.
It's all about a -real- consequences rather than just simple statistics like "here are your 1000 credits and +10 points to the dark side and I hate you, bitch, though you couldn't care less"
real consequences like the whole group of people hating you and they show it by not giving you anything or simply just one offended man blowing your head off. or that fucking wife going all the bloody vendetta on you for not giving her the body.
FO has pretty much of these.

 

[Jasede]

I do not see why any of those reactions would be justified from that quest.

 

[doctor_kaz]

Before Bioware handles choice and consequence, it sounds like they need to get that 30 frames per second thing down.

 

[Lumpy]

it's not about long-term consequences Volly.
It's all about a -real- consequences rather than just simple statistics like "here are your 1000 credits and +10 points to the dark side and I hate you, bitch, though you could care less"
real consequences like the whole group of people hating you and they show it by not giving you anything or simply just one offended man blowing your head off. or that fucking wife going all the bloody vendetta on you for not giving her the body.
FO has pretty much of these.

Oh, now I get it. You couldn't even understand that quest.
It's simple, dumbfuck. Guy wants wife's body back. That body is used for research beneficial for human race. You can bully the scientist into sending the body back, or you can persuade the widower that the body is serving a greater cause. There is no light or dark side, idiot, but I guess you couldn't see that. It's a question of your character's values. Greater good versus. respect for dead heroes.

 

[MetalCraze]

fuck you, Lumpy. it's even worse that way. only good options? and they are good. both ways. it's only a matter of choosing which one is a better good. wtf?
but to hell with this quest. what are the visible consequences?

 

[Deleted member 7219]

it's not about long-term consequences Volly.
It's all about a -real- consequences rather than just simple statistics like "here are your 1000 credits and +10 points to the dark side and I hate you, bitch, though you could care less"
real consequences like the whole group of people hating you and they show it by not giving you anything or simply just one offended man blowing your head off. or that fucking wife going all the bloody vendetta on you for not giving her the body.
FO has pretty much of these.

*smacks table* COULDN'T, damn it, COULDN'T CARE LESS. Arrrgh!

 

[MetalCraze]

*smacks table* COULDN'T, damn it, COULDN'T CARE LESS. Arrrgh!

OK OK take it easy, homey, I will fix dat

 

[Lumpy]

fuck you, Lumpy. it's even worse that way. only good options? and they are good. both ways. it's only a matter of choosing which one is a better good. wtf?
but to hell with this quest. what are the visible consequences?

You're commander Shepherd. You're a champion of the Earth against the aliens. It's pretty much assumed that you're good.
And that's a GOOD thing. I'd rather play a focused 'good' guy who has to make ambiguous decisions, than to choose again between the light side and the dark side.
If you're 'evil', you can probably say "I don't give a fuck about your wife." He's just a widower. He has nothing to offer. What would an evil solution to this quest be? You're probably rich enough not to give a fuck about money.