An ex-1up editor is playing Mass Effect and...

[Solohk]

So do you consider shooters to be action games then?

 

[Joe Krow]

Strategic combat does not mean you have to control every step of every party member. It does, however, mean that your character, and how you have developed him (aside from choosing his weapon), will play a major role in the outcome. Action/shooter games are twitch dependent; action rpgs are twitch+. To me this game looks to be a very light action rpg.

 

[SuicideBunny]

Can any of you recall a shooter that allowed you to play in a dark or light side? A shooter with 2500000 words of dialogue? A shooter that encourages you to explore new worlds, cultures and people?

strife had c&c, and was totally awesome 10 years ago.

 

[Volourn]

"So do you consider shooters to be action games then?"

The real question is what are the differences between a shooter and an action game?

When I think action game, I think BGDA. When I think shooter, I think Halo/COD.

When I think Action RPG, it's games like JE, G3, and BL. This is the group where ME easily fits in.

 

[Solohk]

"So do you consider shooters to be action games then?"

The real question is what are the differences between a shooter and an action game?

I think this is where this argument is getting hung up on. Everyone is using their own personal definitions of the words to determine their position. I personally think that shooters are a type of action game. I tend to think that an action game is a broad term to describe games where you fight a large number of opponents while relying on player rather than character skill. I think shooters fit within that definition but are more specific in the combat elements. In other words, it's an action game that usually takes place in the first person that uses player aiming and various guns.

When I think action game, I think BGDA. When I think shooter, I think Halo/COD.

When I think Action RPG, it's games like JE, G3, and BL. This is the group where ME easily fits in.

Using the definitions I set above, I think that ME is both an Action RPG and a Shooter with RPG elements (Shooter RPG?), but saying it's a Shooter rather than Action game is a little more specific.

 

[TheLostOne]

They also changed the way the game saves are handled. There is an autosave setting as well as being able to do manual saves. But most importantly, you can go back and forth between characters of your creation and game save points. To illustrate, let’s say you have a light side Jill Shepard and a dark side Jack Shepard. You play a point in the game as the light side character. You want to see how the same point would play out as a dark side character, all you do is change characters and replay the point. This is HUGE over only having the option to just replay the whole game again as “the other side.”

This is a poorly worded statement. Bio confirms that you can't switch characters on the same save point. Each character has a save game list unique to itself. Just like KOTOR.

http://masseffect.bioware.com/forums/vi ... &forum=104

 

[MetalCraze]

When I think Action RPG, it's games like JE, G3, and BL. This is the group where ME easily fits in.

expect Ass Effect is nowhere near BL in it's RPG part. Actually we saw similar meaningless dialogues in Unreal 2. We saw stats and bad/good ways in Jedi Academy.Yet they are not RPGs.

the developers would actually know what type of game they've been working on for the last few years than the publisher(s). L0L

Bethesda. They also told us how many c&c and non-linear quests Oblivion would have.

This is a poorly worded statement. Bio confirms that you can't switch characters on the same save point. Each character has a save game list unique to itself. Just like KOTOR.

so who's telling us sweet little lies? Bioware or guys who gave them money and own their souls?

 

[Xi]

If you want to call it an Action RPG, I agree with you. Calling it a shooter, just because of the battle system... Well, that's bordering fanatism. It would be like calling The Witcher a simple click-fest.

Actually, this could probably be considered the first FPS-RPG. It has both mechanics right? Plus, we don't know how in-depth the RPG mechanics go yet. We'll need a solid review to tell us that. For all we know it's mainly an FPS with a few lite-RPG elements.

It's definitely not an "Action" RPG in the sense of Diablo or Oblivion. It's an FPS-RPG because it has direct elements from the FPS genre. Yes, mainly the battle system, but it is correct to classify it as such.

The real question is how well they balanced both genres into one. It won't come as a surprise that it is very lite on the RPG aspects though. That doesn't mean that it will be a bad game, it may be badass, but it further illustrates the direction of the industry. This is something that the Codex has been pointing out for years, as you well know. /shrug

 

[MetalCraze]

It's an FPS-RPG

you wanted to say TPS? fix that or Volly will nitpick you to the death.

 

[TheLostOne]

This is a poorly worded statement. Bio confirms that you can't switch characters on the same save point. Each character has a save game list unique to itself. Just like KOTOR.

so who's telling us sweet little lies? Bioware or guys who gave them money and own their souls?

No one lied. If you read the original statement, they were trying to get across that you can play a point with one character, then switch over to your other character to play up to that point without having to finish the game with your first character beforehand. Was worded very poorly and confused me as well at first.

 

[Volourn]

"expect Ass Effect is nowhere near BL in it's RPG part."

Bullshit.


"It's an FPS-RPG"

Hard to be a FPS anything when you aren't first person.


"but saying it's a Shooter rather than Action game is a little more specific."

But you said a shooter is 'usually' first person. ME isn't. Is it because ME has guns? I guess that means FO is a shooter.

I think the argument is silly. ME is an Action RPG.


"expect Ass Effect is nowhere near BL in it's RPG part." part 2

It's quality is irrelevant. We can argue until we ar eboth blue in the face. ME's quality is irrlevant to this discussion. It could be beyond horrible, and be crappy comapred to BL and still be an action rpg. It would just be crappy Action RPG. Just like there are crappy RPGs, crappy sports games, crappy action games, crappy shooters, and so on.

A game's quality has NOTHING to do with what genre it is. Duh.

Dumbass.

 

[MetalCraze]

still such idea looks dumb. Instead of replaying the game for a second time and looking how things will turn out if you won't make that god damn choice you could be able to simply see it - then complete a game and forget about it.

but of course! Those retarded xbox kids would whine "omg what is teh sense in non-linearity if I can't see it in this walkthrough of teh gaem!!11 no imershun!!1"

fanboy shit

you're boring.

 

[Xi]

But you said a shooter is 'usually' first person. ME isn't. Is it because ME has guns? I guess that means FO is a shooter.

There are some First Person shooting at times, I originally thought it was an option at any time, but I guess not. Never mind the FPS-RPG thing then. Guess Action-RPG defines it.

 

[Zomg]

On the upside, maybe this will get mainstream critics to shit on Fallout 3 via comparison with those repulsive facegen graphics and construction set levels.

 

[Volourn]

"you're boring."

Yet, you've spammed me nonstop over a game you hate. *shrug* If i was so boring you wouldn't respond to me at all. Then again, you like to make up lies. R00fles! So, that means you find me anything *but* boring. L0L


Xi, No problems. Lots of people have had this idea that ME is a FPS - mainly because of the engine it uses so they assumed BIo wouldn't change that.

But, in this way, BIO is like Bethesda (ES type games) - they stick with what they're good at - Isometric/over the shoulder RPGs with real time combat.

 

[TheLostOne]

still such idea looks dumb. Instead of replaying the game for a second time and looking how things will turn out if you won't make that god damn choice you could be able to simply see it - then complete a game and forget about it.

*sigh*

You would still have to replay the game up to that point. It really has no bearing on the game at all. It's like any other fucking save system in any other rpg.

In Fallout if you played to a point and wanted to see the other way with a different character, you could save and play up to that point with a different character.

The only difference is how the game saves are organized. You pick which character you're playing then you pick from that character's save files. If you want to play your other character you pick them and have access to their save files. It's an interface upgrade that's all. And it was already done in Kotor and other games.

 

[Solohk]

"but saying it's a Shooter rather than Action game is a little more specific."

But you said a shooter is 'usually' first person. ME isn't. Is it because ME has guns? I guess that means FO is a shooter.

Yeah, I should have put something like "shooters can be third person, but they are usually first person". Gears of War is a shooter is it not?

I think the argument is silly.

As do I.

 

[DraQ]

strife had c&c, and was totally awesome 10 years ago.

It still is thanks to zdoom.

 

[MetalCraze]

So, that means you find me anything *but* boring.

till this very moment - yes.

 

[Rulion]

Despite all the rage in this thread, I think the game looks pretty awesome. No, it's not a hardcore RPG, but it's not trying to be and anyone who expects it to be/criticizes it because it's not is an idiot. It sounds like RPG-lite with shooting ala Deux Ex to me.

And I'm just fine with that.

 

[Elwro]

So, The Witcher seems to have no chance of winning any "RPG of the year" awards...

 

[TheLostOne]

So, The Witcher seems to have no chance of winning any "RPG of the year" awards...

I doubt it, despite it being a vastly superior RPG.

Which I guess is part of what this genre argument is all about.... completely different games and target audiences having to compete.

They need to have more specific awards like they do for movies. Best gameplay, best dialogue, best character, etc... or do they and I just don't know? I don't pay much attention to what awards games win.

Edit for overuse of vastly.

 

[Jasede]

I can't yet tell if Witcher is a "vastly superior RPG". Mass Effect seems to have choices and nice roleplaying during dialogue so far. Also, the freedom to visit planets appeals to me a lot.

 

[MetalCraze]

Best gameplay, best dialogue, best character

that won't help. yes, award is needed for gamedevelopers to show their publisher, other than that they don't need these "awards" - who has more money and a game for morons receives them.
witcher has people's love. I think CDProjekt pretty much knew for whom they are making this game and they didn't fail.

 

[TheLostOne]

I agree that they hit their target audience, but those awards and shit... won't they encourage Dev's to back those kinds of titles? The Witcher's doing well (it seems), but well enough to change dev/publisher trends? Do they even see that they're missing out on a group of potential buyers?