Arcanum vs Planescape: Torment

[Erebus]

Umm... what are you smoking because you need to come off of it. For one, a world with both technology and magick not working to cancel each other out would be much, much more stale and uninteresting. The complications added because of how they implemented magick and technology in Arcanum adds to a) the believability of the game universe (ie, making it seem less ideal and more natural, as if real physics laws are in place) and b) how you have to change your gameplay style to fit the challenge. This from the top of my head.

I think it would be more interesting for a single character to be able to use both. But that's just a very minor matter. My main problem is that I don't find exploring Arcanum's world to be anywhere as interesting as it could and should have been.

I won't bother with any other concerns you have, but let me ask you this: what did you think of Fallout 3?

I haven't played it and I don't plan to. How is it relevant ?

 

[poocolator]

I think it would be more interesting for a single character to be able to use both. But that's just a very minor matter. My main problem is that I don't find exploring Arcanum's world to be anywhere as interesting as it could and should have been.

I would tend to agree with the exploration part, but then I look at Fallout 3 and see that that entire game consists of "exploring" when it fails at almost everything else. I thought Arcanum was done extremely well, and personally found the exploration concept, even though not what it could have been, compensated by almost everything else, which was very well done, IMO.

I haven't played it and I don't plan to. How is it relevant ?

Well Fallout 3 fails as an RPG sequel to Fallouts 1 and 2, two of my favorite RPGs of all time and on the same level as Arcanum. I was just litmus testing your opinions to get a better feel of what you might like.

 

[The Vanished One]

Isn't Planescape: Torment available in more languages than Arcanum? (PS: T is also available in Spanish, Italian, Hungarian, Polish, Korean and Mandarin, while Arcanum has only a French, German, Spanish, and Russian translations)

An Italian one as well, done by the same guys.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Isn't Planescape: Torment available in more languages than Arcanum? (PS: T is also available in Spanish, Italian, Hungarian, Polish, Korean and Mandarin, while Arcanum has only a French, German, Spanish, and Russian translations)

An Italian one as well, done by the same guys.

There are Czech and Polish localizations as well.

 

[Jaesun]

I refuse to vote on this matter. I was going to but it just unfair to even compare them, two very different games.

 

[Cogar]

I think it would be more interesting for a single character to be able to use both. But that's just a very minor matter. My main problem is that I don't find exploring Arcanum's world to be anywhere as interesting as it could and should have been.

Many RPGs that don't force a player into classes (ranger, mage, etc.) allow the player to use both. Off the top of my head, this includes Morrowind, Oblivion, Two Worlds, and Arx Fatalis. Arcanum's focus on a "conflict" between magick and technology, even though the main character is not restricted by class, is what sets it apart from standard high fantasy fare. A few of us (or maybe most of us) believe that this is what adds playability to Arcanum. Playing a magickal character is a lot different from playing a technological character (not counting up to perhaps level 10).

Regarding exploration, I believe I agree--at least in principle. Still, I don't think anyone has claimed that exploration is a strong point for Arcanum. Frankly, for sheer exploration, the size, scope, and detail of Morrowind is hard to beat--especially once you add in Tribunal and Bloodmoon. However, although exploration is great in Morrowind, its replayability (in my opinion at least) is not there, since virtually every player character ends up being pretty much the same over time. Come to think of it, that is what is lacking in Torment. You always play the same nameless one. Change the stats and you are still on the same set of rails.

 

[Thrasher]

Without a doubt, Arcanum has more interesting character build development. I think that's it's strong point for replayability. But there's a LOT of pointless emptry nothing to explore in Arcanum.

 

[Melcar]

We should set up rival factions: PT:S fag.. erm, fanboys on one side, and the noble Arcanum ubermensch on the other. The Codex needs more polarization and shit.

 

[Thrasher]

There's not a single RPG I have replayed to try a different character build. I like balanced parties for exploring that. Arcanum (and Morrowind) have tempted me the most to replay different characters and questlines, but there are too many good games to play still. Once the story and setting is played through, for me just the RPG mechanics aren't usually enough to hold my interest.

I finish every game I start so replay usually has little to offer.

I think painkiller was the ONLY game I ever replayed (on harder difficulty levels).

 

[Noodle on the Bum]

I'm replaying both of these at the same time at the moment.

Planescape gets my vote as although it lacks the variety and huge character depth of Arcanum, its story is so much more tighter and involving and the writing sharper. I just care about the Nameless One more than my stat building machine of Arcanum.

Both of them are incredible RPGs no doubt but Planescape has the edge IMO.

 

[poocolator]

I prefer amateur porn to that manufactured shit.

 

[Drog Black Tooth]

Once the story and setting is played through, for me just the RPG mechanics aren't usually enough to hold my interest.

Maybe you should try playing adventure games instead of RPGs?

 

[Thrasher]

Maybe adventure games are too simple.
Frankly there are too many good games out there to warrant the repetition.

 

[Raapys]

Yeah, like Oblivion.

 

[OSK]

Maybe adventure games are too simple.
Frankly there are too many good games out there to warrant the repetition.

Then maybe you should stick to JRPGs.

ARCANUM IZ TEH GRATEST RPG EVA!

PLANESCAPE IZ TEH JRPG SHIT! STORY LOLZ.

 

[Worm King]

Maybe adventure games are too simple.
Frankly there are too many good games out there to warrant the repetition.

RPGs are made to be replayed. The RPGs are not only about the story,they're about your companions, choices etc. Playing a good RPG for a second time is practically a whole new experience.

 

[Turok]

What i really dont like about arcanum was the engine, i dont expect a shiny bum bum stuff but something with good animation and movement will be cool. I vote ps:t i just love that game.

 

[Thrasher]

Maybe adventure games are too simple.
Frankly there are too many good games out there to warrant the repetition.

RPGs are made to be replayed. The RPGs are not only about the story,they're about your companions, choices etc. Playing a good RPG for a second time is practically a whole new experience.

They may be meant to be replayed, but all of them have entirlely too much repetition when replayed. None has made a good rpg where most of the content changes when you pick a different path / build.

This is why NWN was so popular. You could repllay the game with different builds using user made modules or one of the expansions.

 

[Cogar]

Regarding the engine and graphics, both are 2-D backgrounds that are limited in size with sprites on top. You can use waypoint navigation in Arcanum on any map, which is a big plus when working your way through a labyrinthine dungeon or a complex series of rooms or going a long distance on the world map. Both have an attractive, but somewhat non-intuitive user interface, which require reading the booklet to determine about half of its functionality, so they are basically equal in that area. Both have wooden character animation, although PS:T’s sprites are somewhat more detailed. Graphically, PS:T has hard shadows, while Arcanum has soft, dynamic shadows (if you enable them--they are in the engine and always have been), so Arcanum has an edge there. I suppose people have a preference for one style over the other, and the setting of PS:T’s environments generally have more style than Arcanum's. IMO, if you add up the plusses, Arcanum seems better visually. Still I understand that visuals end up being more of a matter of taste, but a matter of taste is hardly a significant factor in determining which is a better RPG.

 

[Erebus]

the setting of PS:T’s environments generally have more style than Arcanum's.

Way more style, IMO. Arcanum's cities and other places are realistic but extremely bland, while Torment's environments are always a pleasure to look at.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Perhaps one of the Torment loving chaps could bring up something to do with RPG mechanics...

At the moment, the only things that are popping up are comments about style, story, art, graphics, etc. I could transpose all these onto Dreamfall quite easily.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Perhaps one of the Torment loving chaps could bring up something to do with RPG mechanics...

Very well.

While the initial character creation is merely assigning attributes, building your character takes place in-game. You have to explore to find spells, search for people who can train you in certain classes or skills, and actually do quests and the like in getting their help. It's integrated into the game.

There's also the element of switching to the right class for the right situation. Do I retrain as a thief so I can snatch the tome from the wererat, and do I switch to being a mage afterwards so as to draw out the spells from it, or do I simply sell it off?

Quest hooks in the game have interesting mechanics behind them. The way you do one quest could open up another quest, or give you an extra option in that other quest. And then, trying to go for one option will make you lose many other options. Sometimes, a quest will seem completely impossible, but exploring around, you may find some item or some clue that ends up opening an option in that quest that lets you finish it.

That's about all, but it's enough to make Torment a good enjoyable game for me.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

I wasn't questioning whether the game was enjoyable, merely trying to bring the Torment loving crowd back to what the actual question was "Which is the best RPG?"

I think the enjoyment factor, along with the fact that the game was marketed as an RPG, has confused a lot of people. I myself enjoyed Torment, but that doesn't mean that I rank it very highly when it comes to being an RPG.

Lets say someone went to Thailand, got drunk, picked up and had a really hot night. Upon waking and discovering it was really a ladyboy they had fun with, I doubt they would think to themselves that it was the best woman they ever had.

 

[Helton]

Off to the "what is an rpg" thread?

 

[Thrasher]

A game with the best RPG mechanics is not necessarily the best RPG. You could have a completely computer generated environment with random monsters and simple computer generated quests, and the best character development.

But it would not be the best RPG.