How much ME3 will sell?

[Shiki]

...

Bro Beth games sell well exclusively because of open world - not counting extremely aggressive marketing. Their gameplay is shit, quests are shit, character system is shit, story is shit, writing is shit and so on.
And no 1 page on IGN does not compare in any way to paid-for shit like MOST MAJESTIC RPG MOTHERFUCKER spread across dozens of advertisement gaming sites with Beth inviting journawhores to hotels with hookers and blow.
Of course a crappy corridor shooter with a repetitive gameplay, copy pasted assets, overabundance of unskippable cutscenes won't sell as much because even consoletards have their treshold of shit-bearing.

Exactly. There must be something horribly wrong at bioware for them to keep on using that disaster recipe. I'm not truly praising Bethesda, their games have their faults, but the fact is that Bioware consistently manages to make worse, more dumbed down, less game more movie shit, that formula, which is shit in the eyes of everyone both casual and hardcore gamers combined, doesn't sell, so why are they keeping it ? Bethesda's games have far more appeal for both crowds : the casuals love those open world "rpgs", the more core gamers wait for mods and still buy the games even though they like to complain a lot. The result : 5mil copies sold. And bioware, instead of understanding what makes a game better and also sell to a bigger audience, is persisting in dumbing down their shit a whole lotta more than Beth. One failure (DA2) wasn't enough. What is going on exactly in their studio ? Why so much focus on CUTSCENES, voice acting, button mashing crap if it fails so much at gaining the CoD-level audience they desire so much ?

Skyrim succeeded in the market with NONE of those things. The voice acting still sucks a lot, there's none of that "cinematic cutscene" crap, it's a little less button mashing and it does better than the ME. So why keep ME's formula ?

 

[MetalCraze]

Movies sell much better on consoles than you'd think

Constantly playing a game with a gamepad sitting on a sofa in front of TV is really uncomfortable.
The other thing is you throw a disc into your DVD-player-with-a-gamepad, relax, watch a movie and press a button once in a while.

That's why there's so much cinematic bullshit in games today. Beth copies pale in comparison to what interactive movies like CoD sell.

And bioware, instead of understanding what makes a game better and also sell to a bigger audience

Bro. To sell to a bigger audience you need to make worse games. That's the whole point.
3 mln copies sold is already a pretty huge profit for something as cheap as ME3 (no engine development, models, textures, animations reused from ME1 & ME2, new stuff hand-animated by some third world studio). Why would they care, bro?

It isn't TES where Beth develops areas from ground up so they need to sell more. It's a generic UE3 shooter with 75% of its assets being ready before it even began being developed.
3 mln copies for ME3 may actually bring more profit than 5 mln would do for Beth. It's all relative.

 

[Shiki]

Movies sell much better on consoles than you'd think

Constantly playing a game with a gamepad sitting on a sofa in front of TV is really uncomfortable.
The other thing is you throw a disc into your DVD-player-with-a-gamepad, relax, watch a movie and press a button once in a while.

That's why there's so much cinematic bullshit in games today. Beth copies pale in comparison to what interactive movies like CoD sell.

CoD success is not due to the cinematic bullshit though. It's more like a trend toward simple, war-themed games that CoD successfully took over with huge marketing. Most people buy CoD for the multiplayer, not the solo. It's one of the most played multiplayer game online, even on the PC. On the Xbox, Halo was pretty popular for a time but I think CoD overtook it precisely because of the obsession some parts of the audience have toward contemporary military stuff. Battlefield 2142 on the pc did much worse than any of the other battlefields for the same reason : it was Sci-Fi and not WW2 or modern war themed. BF2, bad company 1&2, vietnam and BF3 did much better than BF2142.

The formula behind the Mass Effect means nothing to most people, and is not what is going to let Bioware sell CoD-level or even Bethesda-level. The level of ""gameplay"" in ME3 multiplayer mode isn't even enough to please the CoD crowd I think.

 

[Infinitron]

Movies sell much better on consoles than you'd think

Constantly playing a game with a gamepad sitting on a sofa in front of TV is really uncomfortable.
The other thing is you throw a disc into your DVD-player-with-a-gamepad, relax, watch a movie and press a button once in a while.

That's why there's so much cinematic bullshit in games today. Beth copies pale in comparison to what interactive movies like CoD sell.

CoD success is not due to the cinematic bullshit though. It's more like a trend toward simple, war-themed games that CoD successfully took over with huge marketing. Most people buy CoD for the multiplayer, not the solo. It's one of the most played multiplayer game online, even on the PC. On the Xbox, Halo was pretty popular for a time but I think CoD overtook it precisely because of the obsession some parts of the audience have toward contemporary military stuff. Battlefield 2142 on the pc did much worse than any of the other battlefields for the same reason : it was Sci-Fi and not WW2 or modern war themed. BF2, bad company 1&2, vietnam and BF3 did much better than BF2142.

The formula behind the Mass Effect means nothing to most people, and is not what is going to let Bioware sell CoD-level or even Bethesda-level. The level of ""gameplay"" in ME3 multiplayer mode isn't even enough to please the CoD crowd I think.

Thanks for enlightening Skyway so that I don't have to. Although he's still insisting that games like ME3 are cheap to make.

 

[MetalCraze]

CoD success is not due to the cinematic bullshit though.

It's success is exactly because of the cinematic bullshit.

Most people buy CoD for the multiplayer, not the solo.

I don't see server mega-clusters being made exclusively for CoD to handle ~5 million of people at the same time

It's one of the most played multiplayer game online, even on the PC.

On Steam 12 y/o CS was beating CoDMW3 all the time p. much
CoDMW3 MP numbers were like 40k? What a massive multiplayer load.

On the Xbox, Halo was pretty popular for a time

And not because of any multiplayer. And CoD overtook it only because there's no Halo being made but some spinoffs by non Bungie or some shit.

Battlefield 2142 on the pc did much worse than any of the other battlefields for the same reason : it was Sci-Fi and not WW2 or modern war themed. BF2, bad company 1&2, vietnam and BF3 did much better than BF2142.

Of course. It had nothing to do with BF2142 being shit with destroy-teh-base gameplay on what? 5-6 maps?
And Halo is totally not a futuristic game. Neither is GoW I guess?

The formula behind the Mass Effect means nothing to most people, and is not what is going to let Bioware sell CoD-level or even Bethesda-level. The level of ""gameplay"" in ME3 multiplayer mode isn't even enough to please the CoD crowd I think.

Mass Effect was always a Gears of War clone with pseudo-stats to sell more copies. Just like the absolute majority of UE3 games.

I don't understand why several millions of sold copies is considered a failure by you? It's a massive success for them.
2 mln sold copies = $50mln of pure revenues.


For comparison - TW2 costed like $10-12 mln to develop and it has more content. In fact all content in it is made from the ground up. Including the engine.
ME3 costed about the same in the worst case considering canadian sallaries (if not less).

And models and art are always outsourced to cheap workers in eastern europe/asia nowadays. But ME3 reused a shitton of content save for backgrounds.

 

[Infinitron]

You're looking at Steam to estimate COD multiplayer popularity?

Come off it, man. COD multiplayer was in fact used as a prime example by David Jaffe in his recent speech to demonstrate that cinematic games are NOT the way to go.

 

[Shiki]

I don't see server mega-clusters being made exclusively for CoD to handle ~5 million of people at the same time

Because 5 millions people are simultaneously playing the game during the same hour, the same day ? Riiiight. I don't even need to answer anything else, when you begin with such faulty logic why should I even bother. It's like trying to answer every single points raised by Volourn on a bad day, an exercise in futility.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I see Skyway still doesn't accept the existence of marketing budgets. So Skyway, do you still believe nobody can spend 100 million on marketing alone (as EA claimed to have done for BF3)?

 

[Toffeli]

There were some charts from CD Projekt this week. It said that the total marketing budget for W2 was 5 million. If I remember correctly the the game itself cost slightly below 10mil. I'm pretty sure the marketing alone cost at least double for ME3.

 

[racofer]

Skyrim didn't have a more aggressive marketing campaign than ME3. Skyrim had the skyscraper, ME3 had its weather balloon falling down with free ME3 copies before its release date. ME3 had its fucking customized page on IGN, the only reviewed game on that site that had such a design on the review page.. could go on and on but Bethesda's performance is absolutely stellar, their games may be dumbed down but at the core they still play like RPGs...

I would say the main difference between a Bethesda game and a BiowarEA game, besides all the retarded shit on the later, is that on a Bethesda game you still play the game.

Bioware started down this road of unskippable cutscenes with Shadows of Undrentide, when they introduced camera panning and scrolling at some events and completely took control away from the player. That shit pissed me off the first time I saw it, but in NWN you still played the game for the most part.

From KotOR onwards, Biowarian games have fallen into this bottomless pit of cinematics and never looked back. Most of the events in ME1/2/3 games happen without player consent (dialogue wheel is a prime example of taking away control).

Bethesda, on the other hand, is dumbing down simplifying their games ever since Arena. But, even in Skyirm, you're in control of your character 95% of the time, even though there's virtually no C&C anymore and there's no way to fail at anything unless you count death as failure. Still, Skyrim holds more potential for the future than ME3 or any Biowarian game simply because it's moddable. You might not be able to fix the stupid quests, story and dialogues, but you have much more to work with and make something good out of it. Oblivion with the most popular mods turned into a fun dungeon crawler and Skyrim most likely will share the same fate.

 

[Infinitron]

For future use.

 

[MetalCraze]

You're looking at Steam to estimate COD multiplayer popularity?

Because on Steam everyone is an elite individual with hardcore tastes in games and doesn't take kindly to cinematic movie games

Come off it, man. COD multiplayer was in fact used as a prime example by David Jaffe in his recent speech to demonstrate that cinematic games are NOT the way to go.

That David Jaffe must be pretty retarded then, using an MP part of a game to attack cinematic SP shit.

I see Skyway still doesn't accept the existence of marketing budgets. So Skyway, do you still believe nobody can spend 100 million on marketing alone (as EA claimed to have done for BF3)?

Of course that's bullshit. What exactly can cost $100 mln when it comes to marketing?
There are Hollywood movie budgets that are the same and include marketing.

And since when do you believe what Riccitiello says? Isn't it marketing itself?
Next stop - you are using Pete Hines words as a proof for something.

 

[Infinitron]

That David Jaffe must be pretty retarded then, using an MP part of a game to attack cinematic SP shit.

The point is that it's incredibly successful and non-cinematic. "A global phenomenon", he calls it. And you're trying to minimize that, absurdly.

 

[MetalCraze]

Show me a cinematic deathmatch then

Because 5 millions people are simultaneously playing the game during the same hour, the same day ? Riiiight.

Actually it sold 12 mln copies something so I took that into account. Nice try though.

I don't even need to answer anything else, when you begin with such faulty logic why should I even bother. It's like trying to answer every single points raised by Volourn on a bad day, an exercise in futility.

Do you even realize how retarded it makes you sound? "I'm right because you are dumb lol!!1"

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Nothing wrong with cinematic style Action RPGs, as long as you're good at it.

I wouldn't want to trust Bethesda doing that 'cause they suck at it, just like BioWare would suck at making an open world RPG.

 

[SCO]

I guess the "error" of bioware with Neverwinter nights (besides the obvious) was not giving out a huge world with the modding tools, even if mostly empty or useless, like morrowind.

The sheeple modders see the modding tools and see that they have to make castles, landscapes and shit to release their "story" (never mind the tile based approach) and give up on the planning stage. On morrowind they highjack some useless npc or create one on the scenic castle that the beth modelers put there, empty.
The players see that they can't play multiple, conflicting stories on the same fucking shared continent (same pc/build is not good enough for them) and don't like it (it's strange because BG 2 is exactly that kind of game, but the modding tools had to come from the community - strange exchange of weakness).

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Of course that's bullshit. What exactly can cost $100 mln when it comes to marketing?
There are Hollywood movie budgets that are the same and include marketing.

And since when do you believe what Riccitiello says? Isn't it marketing itself?
Next stop - you are using Pete Hines words as a proof for something.

I dunno man, you tell me. I linked to a guardian article breaking down the total budget for Spiderman 2 - and the marketing for that cost a total of $75m, and that was in 2004. The article also mentions the marketing budget of Matrix: Reloaded reaching your "bullshit" $100m, in 2003. Estimates put it at around $150m for Avatar, if you want a more recent production.

I will leave you to pick up the pieces of your blown mind.

 

[Roguey]

2M - only on PC

ME3 will make up for its budget in a week or two with ease (if it already didn't)

Funny how on every single screenshot and video environments look exactly the same. Same assets as in ME1 and 2 too.
Yeah I bet that took $40 mln to develop.

They probably spent a lot of money on shitty handmade animations instead of mocap too I bet.

Oh boy you're still at this.
http://www.eluta.ca/top-employer-bioware
Full-time employees in Canada: 397. Full-time at this location: 354. Full-time worldwide: 849. Part-time employees in Canada: 1.

The identity of that one part-time employee is going to bother me for a while.

 

[Infinitron]

I guess the "error" of bioware with Neverwinter nights (besides the obvious) was not giving out a huge world with the modding tools, even if mostly empty or useless, like morrowind.

The sheeple modders see the modding tools and see that they have to make castles, landscapes and shit to release their "story" (never mind the tile based approach) and give up on the planning stage. On morrowind they highjack some useless npc or create one on the scenic castle that the beth modelers put there, empty.
The players see that they can't play multiple, conflicting stories on the same fucking shared continent (same pc/build is not good enough for them) and don't like it (it's strange because BG 2 is exactly that kind of game, but the modding tools had to come from the community - strange exchange of weakness).

You're acting as if NWN didn't have a shit-ton of modules released by players.

 

[SCO]

The "shit ton" of modules percolated into 3 or 5 good ones last time i checked. Some series about a paladin campaign, a necromancer campaign, a lone wolf campaign and that deviant thing that was lp'd here was the last i remember.

Even disregarding quality - where NWN has the edge on the higher quality quest collections, simply because of the investment and consistency, i seriously doubt if they beat it on quantity (and they don't obviously beat it on mods at the same time).

 

[Infinitron]

The "shit ton" of modules percolated into 3 or 5 good ones last time i checked. Some series about a paladin, and that deviant thing that was lp'd here was the last i remember.

That's true for every modding scene.

NWN was a bold experiment by the then-good Bioware, and they should be commended for it despite the poor quality of the tech demo known as the "NWN OC".

 

[SCO]

I edited my post once i realized the non-sequitur.

 

[MetalCraze]

Oh boy you're still at this.
http://www.eluta.ca/top-employer-bioware
Full-time employees in Canada: 397. Full-time at this location: 354. Full-time worldwide: 849. Part-time employees in Canada: 1.

The identity of that one part-time employee is going to bother me for a while.

What exactly are you trying to say?
That there are people working at Bioware? No fucking way.

I dunno man, you tell me. I linked to a guardian article breaking down the total budget for Spiderman 2 - and the marketing for that cost a total of $75m

Woah dude - I didn't know that printing retail copies of games & adding DRM is the same shit as advertisement. You totally blew my mind by being unable to read an article linked by yourself.

And if you wouldn't insist on showing your lack of reading comprehension you would've also noticed that dubbing is included into that bill as well.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I dunno man, you tell me. I linked to a guardian article breaking down the total budget for Spiderman 2 - and the marketing for that cost a total of $75m

Woah dude - I didn't know that printing retail copies of games & adding DRM is the same shit as advertisement. You totally blew my mind by being unable to read an article linked by yourself.

You know, at this point I honestly can't tell if you're trolling or just that fucking wrapped up in your internet tough guy persona that it's physically impossible for you to concede a point. P&A (prints and advertising) is what the movie industry calls marketing. For historical reasons, they include the cost of prints (physical copies of the movie meant for theatres) in this, but it's not that fucking difficult to figure out a grand majority of it is taken up by the "advertising" part. Besides, do you really think the process of releasing a game in multiple countries, with subs for every major language, on three separate platforms, all on the same day, is not comparable to deploying a movie in similar circumstances?

Just so you know, the average P&A budget for a Hollywood movie was around $35m, in 2006. Still think it's impossible to burn $100m on marketing a video game? Ah, but I know, ME3 is profitable at 1m units sold, because you said so. Their marketing budget was probably like $5m, just like for CDPR, right?

Also, learn to quote.

 

[MetalCraze]

Besides, do you really think the process of releasing a game in multiple countries, with subs for every major language, on three separate platforms, all on the same day, is not comparable to deploying a movie in similar circumstances?

Did you see me saying that from each 1 mln sold copies there's a $50-60 mln clean income?

Still think it's impossible to burn $100m on marketing a video game

Well if Riccitiello thinks that printing 10 mln of BF3 copies at $10-15 per box = marketing just like in what you think Hollywood thinks - then of course. It can be from $100 mln to infinity

Ah, but I know, ME3 is profitable at 1m units sold, because you said so.

1 mln copies sold = $50 mln income since you we are now including prints too.
So if ME3 costed $40 mln - it's profitable, no?

And at 3 mln copies sold it will turn in massive profits regardless of anything.

Their marketing budget was probably like $5m, just like for CDPR, right?

Of course not. But the game development budget most likely was.