Shadowrun Is Shadowrun Returns a cRPG? Case study

[J_C]

Joking aside, of course it is an cRPG you faggot!

Why?

Because they have ALL the elements of an RPG. You even listed them in your OP. The fact that they are not well done is another question.

Tell me, which aspect of an RPG is missing from the game entirely, that makes you question its "RPG-ness".

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Donkey Kong is a fucking role-playing game. When you play Donkey Kong you are playing the role of a fat little Italian plumber trying to save an ape-sucking whore from being even more of an ape-sucking whore.

Pac-Man is a role-playing game where you play the role of a circle with a pie-slice mouth with binge-eating disorder haunted by ghosts.

In Space Invaders you play the role of Space Defenders.

This is all really basic people.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Joking aside, of course it is an cRPG you faggot!

Why?

Because they have ALL the elements of an RPG. You even listed them in your OP. The fact that they are not well done is another question.

Tell me, which aspect of an RPG is missing from the game entirely, that makes you question its "RPG-ness".

Well, as stated in the OP... the elements are so lacking, so minimal, that it's kind of offensive to even class them as existing in enough of a degree to consider it a cRPG. It's closer to an X-Com than it is to any cRPG I've ever played before & even then the X-Commers laugh at it because the tactical combat isn't even very tactical...

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

None of your definitions of what are or are not a Computer Role-playing game stand up to any degree of scrutiny at all.

I can role-play the role of a fucking accountant circa 1998 and bust out some old ass Peachtree software.

I'd have to probably be psychotic to do it, but I could....maybe even have some kind of psychotic awesome time.

Literally anything can be a game if you want to game it in your mind. Your definitions of what is or isn't a game are completely fucking arbitrary.

Your definition of role-playing is utterly stultifying.

You just want some sort of optimal old-fashioned masturbatory device....that's all you want.

 

[J_C]

I'm pretty sure nobody has called Deus Ex a cRPG, all I saw outside of immersive sim was 'FPS/RPG with RPG/FPS elements and stealth.'

You are a new member of the Codex, so I'll let this slide. But please, let me educate you. Scroll to #11.
http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=9453

 

[J_C]

Joking aside, of course it is an cRPG you faggot!

Why?

Because they have ALL the elements of an RPG. You even listed them in your OP. The fact that they are not well done is another question.

Tell me, which aspect of an RPG is missing from the game entirely, that makes you question its "RPG-ness".

Well, as stated in the OP... the elements are so lacking, so minimal, that it's kind of offensive to even class them as existing in enough of a degree to consider it a cRPG. It's closer to an X-Com than it is to any cRPG I've ever played before & even then the X-Commers laugh at it because the tactical combat isn't even very tactical...

Yes they are lacking, but they are there. That's why I think it is better to call it a weak cRPG, than dismiss it entirely. Might and Magic is not a cRPG because it does not have C&C? Deus Ex is not a cRPG becaue it does not have itemization?

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

You are a new member of the Codex, so I'll let this slide. But please, let me educate you. Scroll to #11.

Ok...I looked at it. I don't know what the fuck that has to do with anything I'm saying.

What I'm saying is: Your old ass nerd arguments are completely retarded.

Any game can be a role-playing game, and just about any activity can be a game if you decide to treat it that way. Hence...almost any activity is a role-playing game if you have enough fucking imagination you autists.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Joking aside, of course it is an cRPG you faggot!

Why?

Because they have ALL the elements of an RPG. You even listed them in your OP. The fact that they are not well done is another question.

Tell me, which aspect of an RPG is missing from the game entirely, that makes you question its "RPG-ness".

role playing. what Sawyer describes as interactive storytelling. DMS makes an effort to appear to be an RPG, but it's just a turn based tactics game with character building and an unusual amount of dialogue.

Dragonfall is a CRPG, Dead Man's Switch is not. What does Dragonfall have that DMS doesn't? You can make choices that affect parts of the story.

If character building and character progression are the only criteria then Destiny is an RPG.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Joking aside, of course it is an cRPG you faggot!

Why?

Because they have ALL the elements of an RPG. You even listed them in your OP. The fact that they are not well done is another question.

Tell me, which aspect of an RPG is missing from the game entirely, that makes you question its "RPG-ness".

Well, as stated in the OP... the elements are so lacking, so minimal, that it's kind of offensive to even class them as existing in enough of a degree to consider it a cRPG. It's closer to an X-Com than it is to any cRPG I've ever played before & even then the X-Commers laugh at it because the tactical combat isn't even very tactical...

Yes they are lacking, but they are there. That's why I think it is better to call it a weak cRPG, than dismiss it entirely. Might and Magic is not a cRPG because it does not have C&C? Deus Ex is not a cRPG becaue it does not have itemization?

Everyone knows Deus Ex is a hybrid game, no-one has ever objected to that definition. There's nothing wrong with hybrids described as hybrids. Your point about M&M and dialogue C&C was discussed in the OP, it's not about having all the elements & of all the elements C&C is probably the most recent and controversial of the 'desired expectations' that wasn't even a thing in traditional cRPGs, but something the codex specifically helped invent.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

my-first-tactical-spin-off-with-words™

this sentence is gold. tactical geim with words, is not an truu see-er-pi-gii

there we go

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Joking aside, of course it is an cRPG you faggot!

Why?

Because they have ALL the elements of an RPG. You even listed them in your OP. The fact that they are not well done is another question.

Tell me, which aspect of an RPG is missing from the game entirely, that makes you question its "RPG-ness".

role playing. what Sawyer describes as interactive storytelling. DMS makes an effort to appear to be an RPG, but it's just a turn based tactics game with character building and an unusual amount of dialogue.

Dragonfall is a CRPG, Dead Man's Switch is not. What does Dragonfall have that DMS doesn't? You can make choices that affect parts of the story.

If character building and character progression are the only criteria then Destiny is an RPG.

Are you dumb? Do you not possess the ability to bring life to the characters that Dead Man's Switch offers you? Because I sure as hell could.

I had a great time doing so. I loved Shadowrun Returns. Obviously it's not the big package you get with Dragonfall.

But for what it is....a discrete little story inside the Shadowrun universe....on a small scale. It's brilliant.

So many games are about Saving the Whole Fucking Universe.

With Shadowrun Returns you get to be a low-level little shit just trying to get paid and maybe avenge your friend's death.

And a nice little twist at the end.

That's really the brilliance of all of the Shadowrun games, yes even Hong Kong.

You're not the savior of the universe. At best you maintain the equilibrium by propping up a local shady power that isn't in the pocket of a dragon-corporation.
(Or maybe it is...in some other way...you never know).

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

But for what it is....a discrete little story inside the Shadowrun universe....on a small scale. It's brilliant. So many games are about Saving the Whole Fucking Universe. With Shadowrun Returns you get to be a low-level little shit just trying to get paid and maybe avenge your friend's death. And a nice little twist at the end. That's really the brilliance of all of the Shadowrun games, yes even Hong Kong. You're not the savior of the universe. At best you maintain the equilibrium by propping up a local shady power that isn't in the pocket of a dragon-corporation (or maybe it is...in some other way).

Except you do have to save the world...

 

[J_C]

You are a new member of the Codex, so I'll let this slide. But please, let me educate you. Scroll to #11.

Ok...I looked at it. I don't know what the fuck that has to do with anything I'm saying.

What I'm saying is: Your old ass nerd arguments are completely retarded.

Any game can be a role-playing game, and just about any activity can be a game if you decide to treat it that way. Hence...almost any activity is a role-playing game if you have enough fucking imagination you autists.

I don't know if you noticed it but I wasn't responding to you.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

I wasn't responding to you.

What? I was responding to YOU asshole. Let me educate YOU.

Not a single one of you twats has any response at all (other than your fucking retard buttons) to the actual argument that I made.

Your entire view of computer role-playing games is retarded. I know you won't refer to my previous post, so I'll go ahead and copy/paste:

ahem:
Any game can be a role-playing game, and just about any activity can be a game if you decide to treat it that way. Hence...almost any activity is a role-playing game if you have enough fucking imagination you autists.

Stop being dumb.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Any game can be a role-playing game, and just about any activity can be a game if you decide to treat it that way.

This happens to be the exact reason people agree that different words mean different things even though they could subjectively mean the same thing. You know, in order to get a functional language with which to understand eachother? jezus fucking christ.
"hurr durr fallout is an action game becuase shooting", no, fuck off.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

Not a single one of you twats has any response at all (other than your fucking retard buttons) to the actual argument that I made.

Because your 'line of argument' has already been debunked and fully dissected on about 20 threads discussing "what is an RPG" over the past few years alone & this thread is not about discussing RPGs generally, it's about Shadowrun Returns: Dead Man's Switch. You've said virtually fuck all about the game & when you did, finally, surprise surprise, it turned out to be bollocks.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

This happens to be the exact reason people agree that different words mean different things even though they could subjectively mean the same thing. You know, in order to get a functional language with which to understand eachother? jezus fucking christ.
"hurr durr fallout is an action game becuase shooting", no, fuck off.

Literally nothing in my definition treats the words "game" or "role-playing" or "computer" any fucking differently than anyone else would treat them. I'm just not putting the words "computer role-playing game" in super special category because....because....my precious precious li'l hobby.....you better not defile my favorite.

I can make a game out of whatever activity I want to, and I can role-play the shit out of it to. You deciding that my pc role-playing activity isn't worthy of the name is just fucking bollocks.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Dead Man's Swith is a Role-Playing Computer Game because it's a fucking thing I did on my computer that I played and role-played.

 

[Kyl Von Kull]

Are you dumb? Do you not possess the ability to bring life to the characters that Dead Man's Switch offers you? Because I sure as hell could.

I had a great time doing so. I loved Shadowrun Returns. Obviously it's not the big package you get with Dragonfall.

But for what it is....a discrete little story inside the Shadowrun universe....on a small scale. It's brilliant.

So many games are about Saving the Whole Fucking Universe.

With Shadowrun Returns you get to be a low-level little shit just trying to get paid and maybe avenge your friend's death.

And a nice little twist at the end.

That's really the brilliance of all of the Shadowrun games, yes even Hong Kong.

You're not the savior of the universe. At best you maintain the equilibrium by propping up a local shady power that isn't in the pocket of a dragon-corporation.
(Or maybe it is...in some other way...you never know).

What does any of this have to do with interactive storytelling? DMS is not fucking interactive. Battletech is more of an RPG.

Any game can be a role-playing game, and just about any activity can be a game if you decide to treat it that way. Hence...almost any activity is a role-playing game if you have enough fucking imagination you autists.

I can't tell if you're just a shitposting troll, but I will treat this seriously. Yes, you can LARP in any game. You can pretend to be an Italian plumber in Super Mario Brothers. That does not make Super Mario a CRPG. You can role play every second of every day; that does not make your job a role playing game.

In a CRPG, the game itself reacts to your role playing choices--it acknowledges them. Basically, if the player has to do all the work of role playing himself, with the mechanics of the game doing nothing to support it, then it's not a CRPG. Simple.

 

[J_C]

I wasn't responding to you.

What? I was responding to YOU asshole. Let me educate YOU.

Not a single one of you twats has any response at all (other than your fucking retard buttons) to the actual argument that I made.

Your entire view of computer role-playing games is retarded. I know you won't refer to my previous post, so I'll go ahead and copy/paste:

ahem:
Any game can be a role-playing game, and just about any activity can be a game if you decide to treat it that way. Hence...almost any activity is a role-playing game if you have enough fucking imagination you autists.

Stop being dumb.

Are you mentally retarded? I was responding to Big Wrangle with my Top RPG link, and somehow you responded to that with calling me retarded and an autist. And now calling me dumb and an asshole. Stop being an edgy cunt, it won't help you take your point across.

Jesus, you make 2018 newfags look bad.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

You deciding that my pc role-playing activity isn't worthy of the name is just fucking bollocks.

Would you say Anachronox is a cRPG? That should clear things up here.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

DMS is not fucking interactive.

Who the fuck are you to say it isn't interactive. Define interactive motherfucker. I'm pretty sure it didn't pin me to the ground and shit its content down my throat without my will. I'm pretty goddamned sure I chose how and when to interact with the fucking thing.

I'm not shitposting. You generic regurgitating oldfags are the shitposters....just spewing out the same bullshit day after day....

 

[HeatEXTEND]

Dead Man's Swith is a Role-Playing Computer Game because it's a fucking thing I did on my computer that I played and role-played.

Sure, but is it a Computer Role-playing Game? No, it is not. You could of course argue that it is, but that would just make it a completely shitty cRPG. Not much value to be had there.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Would you say Anachronox is a cRPG? That should clear things up here.

I would say that fucking Googling is a CRPG....if I want it to be.

You morons think only your narrowly defined concepts are cannon of what is or isn't a game or role-playing. The whole fucking world is a role-playing game if you want it to be.

Pssst....that's what's great about the concept of Role-Playing games you nitwits.

 

[Swampy_Merkin]

Sure, but is it a Computer Role-playing Game? No, it is not. You could of course argue that it is, but that would just make it a completely shitty cRPG. Not much value to be had there.

is-shadowrun-returns-a-crpg is the name of the thread so you just conceded my main point. Thanks.

As to whether or not it is a good role-playing game. Well...I liked it. I felt like I was playing a small Shadowrun mod. I played some Shadowrun pnp in the 90s. And Dead Man's Switch played like a well-written weekend run of Shadowrun.

Not big and save-the-world type shit. Small and quick and dirty with all the right Shadowrun lingo. For a first attempt at a Shadowrun computer mod....it was really good and left me wanting more.

And I got more.