Game News Jagged Alliance: Flashback Kickstarter confirmed

[Jashiin]

Soccer dads, is this a joke ?

 

[HobGoblin42]

This is doomed to fail. To bad as someone said, people will think nobody wants a PROPER JA2 sequel...

A proper Jagged Alliance sequel is simply not doable within those budgets. The original JA2 development took at least $4 mio (in 1998!) and nowadays the costs of creating graphics are definitely more expensive (doesn't matter if 3D or high-res 2D).

Take the new X-Com and you know how much a proper sequel would cost.

 

[Wizfall]

I backed it earlier.
Thanks for killing my hope people.
You could have at least waited for the updates and let me dream a little more

 

[Jaesun]

Casual Jagged Alliance. ugh. :/

 

[GarfunkeL]

It's Bitcomposer right? Maybe CrashOberbreit can answer that question.

We still own the Jagged Alliance brand. However, it is - after all - a license. And we can, of course, give that license, to other companies and allow them to use it. We did so with JA Online. And we did so for Full Control. However the Full Control deal is quite different since it is more or less a "heart-thing" (at least that's what I'd call it). I fell down on my knees to convince people here that there should be a turn based JA game. And I again fell down on my knees to convince people that Full Control should get the rights for their vision. Some may ask: Why them? So far they just did this Frontline Tactics stuff. Right. And it was an iPad game. The PC port wasn't.... that good in my eyes. But I've seen Space Hulk. I played Space Hulk. Long before it was shown at the GDC. After that I fell on my knees harder than ever before to convince people. I do believe that FC can do a good JA game, yes.

And so we are here. We gave them the license. They can use it. We offered funding. They wanted to stay independent. It was kinda tough to convince people that this would still be a good idea - but it worked. They can offer it DRM free, hell they can even offer it with flying cats. They now have the license, they can do whatever they wish to do - at least once. Cause the license-agreement is just for one game. At least for now. Who knows? If this game kicks ass and chews bubblegum, Full Control might also do JA3. Who knows?

You sound like a BRO but you work for the devil, so hope you have a thick skin, daring to venture in here. So far, FC's pitch isn't very convincing at all. What will your bosses do if they fail? Write off the licence and dump it in storage?

 

[Jaesun]

http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board/ubbthreads.php/topics/317369/2.html

Hello everyone!

First of all: Thanks for the feedback here. It helped us a lot to set up a FAQ before launch actually.

@dethica:
The unlocking thing maybe was a bit unclear. Of course you'll find new weapons. Unlocking is more or less a modern term, we didn't use it right as it seems

And of course you WON'T be able to give Ivan pink hairs. But you'll be able to customize him with gear. The merc's hairstyle quote is actually about the I.M.P.

About the strategy layer. Many people got that wrong and we got a lot of questions regarding that topic. We'll cover it in one of the coming updates. But be sure that we plan to have a complete map which consists out of the sectors. And on that map you can move around your squad. But even than you have to think about which sector you want to attack.

The base management. Heh. This ain't XCOM. It's not about building a base like in XCOM but rather to have a base at all. No future stuff or something like that. However we plan to have training options at the base, like a firing range for example. And the upgrades are things like building a laser pointer out of item X combined with item Y.​

 

[Kz3r0]

I backed it earlier.
Thanks for killing my hope people.
You could have at least waited for the updates and let me dream a little more

Odds are, something you like very much sucks. Why? Because this is RPG Codex.

 

[spectre]

This is doomed to fail. To bad as someone said, people will think nobody wants a PROPER JA2 sequel...

A proper Jagged Alliance sequel is simply not doable within those budgets. The original JA2 development took at least $4 mio (in 1998!) and nowadays the costs of creating graphics are definitely more expensive (doesn't matter if 3D or high-res 2D).

Take the new X-Com and you know how much a proper sequel would cost.

So, if 4 mil would be barely enough, what do we get for 350,000$?
No, really, I am really curious as to what's the reasoning behind this kickstarter, throw something at the wall and see if it sticks?
People should be grateful for getting any JA sequel rather than getting none at all? If so, I'm getting a strong feeling of deja vu, similar to Back in Action. I'm sure it'll end well.

 

[Lorica]

No, really, I am really curious as to what's the reasoning behind this kickstarter, throw something at the wall and see if it sticks?

Yes, that's basically what they said in the interview on RPS.

Problem?

 

[AstroZombie]

I'd back it if it was being made by ex Sir-Tech canada folks, but who the fuck is Full Control?

Edit:

- Danish indie studio Full Control today announced that it has signed a licensing agreement with bitComposer Games to develop and publish a new undisclosed multiplatform title in the Jagged Alliance franchise.

Multiplatform? Fuck off.

 

[HanoverF]

I'd back if they make a Calvin 'Barking Mad' Barkmore a hirable merc.


Ok that was a joke but the more I think about it, the more I think that would be the best thing ever.

 

[janjetina]

This is doomed to fail. To bad as someone said, people will think nobody wants a PROPER JA2 sequel...

A proper Jagged Alliance sequel is simply not doable within those budgets. The original JA2 development took at least $4 mio (in 1998!) and nowadays the costs of creating graphics are definitely more expensive (doesn't matter if 3D or high-res 2D).

Take the new X-Com and you know how much a proper sequel would cost.

And we all know that for a game to be a proper Jagged Alliance 2 sequel graphics is paramount. Tactical turn based combat system and weapon choices should maybe get a second or two of programming time, and they can hire a 1st year women's studies student to work on AI.

How about this (an out-of-this-world, ground breaking, Earth-shattering idea, I know, I might get committed for just writing it):

1. Copy the combat system and weapons from JA 2 v1.13. Pure Ctrl+C / Ctrl + V. Do not add nor subtract anything.
2. Improve the AI. In order to do that, hire competent AI programmers. This should take a large chunk of the budget. People competent in AI do not work for scraps. If unable to do that: Ctrl+C / Ctrl + V JA2 AI.
3. Improve the user interface, which was probably the worst part of JA 2. Tooltips are your friend.
4. After devoting the necessary funds for the implementation of the first three points, determine the scope of the game world and the quality of the graphics and audio according to what remains in the budget. Fans of JA 2 are the fans of its turn based combat, and would be able to live even with X-Com (the original one, not the new necrophiliac edition) graphics.
5. Now you have at least a JA 2 spiritual successor, and at a higher budget (say, 3 millions like Wasteland 2), the game would have proper graphics.

.

 

[Zero Credibility]

It should have make the news of the Codex and even have a thread in the CRPG forum
Ok JA is way more about strategy than rpg but still.
I check the Codex quite often but only learned about this kicstarter right now (i don't check this part of the Codex).
Quite shocked about that, JA 2 was in the top 15 cRPG Codex list after all.

Agreed. This is front page Codex news. It's fucking Jagged Alliance - even if this completely bombs (and it likely will), the game is one of Codex all-time favourites and has a lot of rpg elements.

As for the kickstarter ... I'm going to have to see a lot more details on how the game would look like before I make up my mind about it. Sure, it's nice that the game would be available DRM free and that there will be a linux version. But what about the actual gameplay - they say that "Flashback is a new game, built around the core gameplay mechanics from the original games, various elements from the 1.13 patch and some new ideas." Disappointment that they are not just taking the gameplay from the 1.13 as a base and then building on it aside, what specifically is from original, what from 1.13 and what is new? Action points, they are in, right? I know the question sounds silly, but after the new XCOM it apparently needs to be asked. They say they have fog of war, but do they have an actual field of view like in the original? How is cover handled? Can I go prone to make myself harder to hit and gain benefits from bipods? What about stealth? Camo? Suppression? Sniper spotting? Scopes and tunnel vision? Damage and health recovery? Equipment condition and repair? How exactly is the strategic layer of the game handled?

I backed Inxile and Obsidian based on the initial pitch - I didn't need many details because I know they have the right people on their teams. I may bitch on the forums about the particular choice of gameplay mechanic, but in the end I know what to expect from them. The people behind this kickstarter don't have that - they need to show exactly what they are aiming for. Preferably with something stronger then just words. I need to know if I'm pledging for a new Jagged Aliance or a new XCOM disappointment.

TL;DR: until further notice.

 

[UnusuallyRuthless]

In their new update ( http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2079547763/jagged-alliance-flashback/posts/462594 ) they explain some things. Apparently there will be an overland map that you can travel on and take towns, fortify them with militia, and there are retaking attempts by enemies. It is amazing how these people can be so utterly inept at saying WHAT exactly they mean, using words like missions and levels.

Looks pretty good on that end. Shows there are controlled enemy sectors, your team traveling on the map, and that home base, which seems like Omerta with a purpose.

And here's another would-be disaster on their communication side of things, had they not explicitly listed examples:

Does this mean we will have full destructible everything? No - almost no games have this and we will not either. It simply makes no sense.

But then they specify:

Here are some examples of destructible things:
being able to blow up a thin wall with a frag grenade to remove the cover that the enemy unit is hiding behind
use C4 to make a hole in a wall to create an alternative entrance to a building
cut holes in fences with a wire cutter
destroy equipment like radio transmitters, power generators, cars to stop the enemy from using them

Examples of non-destructible environment:
you will not be able to blow tunnels into the ground to move underneath things
you wont be able to have buildings collapse by blowing holes into all walls
terrain pieces can not be destroyed, things like boulders, rocks etc.
there is no wand of divinity that splits water to walk between islands

Blow tunnels into the ground? Splitting water? What the fuck? It looks like full destruction to me (besides maybe collapsing buildings, but I don't care about that).

 

[General Maxson]

They seem bad at communicating things.

 

[Gakkone]

They seem bad at communicating things.

Goddamn Danes.

 

[Jaesun]

PRO TIP: Select your post of text and then click on the eraser button at the top left of the editor to remove formatting (it still will leave hyperlinks) so people can actually read your posts, instead of ignoring them.

 

[Jaesun]

http://pockettactics.com/2013/04/18...on-the-jagged-alliance-flashback-kickstarter/

In our chat, Lund stressed that this new Jagged Alliance is a PC-first game, and that any iPad version would be a stretch goal. But if a successfully Kickstarted JA Flashback doesn’t appear on iPad, I will eat my hat. Mark my words.

Just FYI this game is using Unity (Just like Wasteland 2, Project Eternity and Torment). It has built in Tablet (and other) support.

But in the case of the above, they are specifically designing the game only for the PC, but not designing the game around the limitations of other platforms (See Shadowrun Returns).

 

[Thor Kaufman]

And we all know that for a game to be a proper Jagged Alliance 2 sequel graphics is paramount. Tactical turn based combat system and weapon choices should maybe get a second or two of programming time, and they can hire a 1st year women's studies student to work on AI.

How about this (an out-of-this-world, ground breaking, Earth-shattering idea, I know, I might get committed for just writing it):

1. Copy the combat system and weapons from JA 2 v1.13. Pure Ctrl+C / Ctrl + V. Do not add nor subtract anything.
2. Improve the AI. In order to do that, hire competent AI programmers. This should take a large chunk of the budget. People competent in AI do not work for scraps. If unable to do that: Ctrl+C / Ctrl + V JA2 AI.
3. Improve the user interface, which was probably the worst part of JA 2. Tooltips are your friend.
4. After devoting the necessary funds for the implementation of the first three points, determine the scope of the game world and the quality of the graphics and audio according to what remains in the budget. Fans of JA 2 are the fans of its turn based combat, and would be able to live even with X-Com (the original one, not the new necrophiliac edition) graphics.
5. Now you have at least a JA 2 spiritual successor, and at a higher budget (say, 3 millions like Wasteland 2), the game would have proper graphics.

.

Quite.

The JA series also had great humour and fleshed out characters with personality, though. Without that it's "just" X-Com or Silent Storm but ya it would still be something

 

[Burning Bridges]

And we all know that for a game to be a proper Jagged Alliance 2 sequel graphics is paramount. Tactical turn based combat system and weapon choices should maybe get a second or two of programming time, and they can hire a 1st year women's studies student to work on AI.

How about this (an out-of-this-world, ground breaking, Earth-shattering idea, I know, I might get committed for just writing it):

1. Copy the combat system and weapons from JA 2 v1.13. Pure Ctrl+C / Ctrl + V. Do not add nor subtract anything.
2. Improve the AI. In order to do that, hire competent AI programmers. This should take a large chunk of the budget. People competent in AI do not work for scraps. If unable to do that: Ctrl+C / Ctrl + V JA2 AI.
3. Improve the user interface, which was probably the worst part of JA 2. Tooltips are your friend.
4. After devoting the necessary funds for the implementation of the first three points, determine the scope of the game world and the quality of the graphics and audio according to what remains in the budget. Fans of JA 2 are the fans of its turn based combat, and would be able to live even with X-Com (the original one, not the new necrophiliac edition) graphics.
5. Now you have at least a JA 2 spiritual successor, and at a higher budget (say, 3 millions like Wasteland 2), the game would have proper graphics.

You cannot just copy paste features. The source code must be quite a jumble, otherwise modding would have gotten anywhere. (I know they did quite a lot with it, but failed in the areas that count, a real data driven architecture or externalization)
The competent AI programmer would probably refuse to work on this mess or suggest the whole thing better be coded from scratch.

It will never happen.

 

[Burning Bridges]

We have to look at what we can do for the amount of money we’re asking for as a minimum – we can make a cool game but we can’t make a replacement for JA2, that has been modded for so many years. It’s impossible. But depending on success, we can add more and more, so hopefully that’s possible.

so that's what will come out of this, a "cool" game