Sitra Achara
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2003
- Messages
- 1,859
Didn't Vault Dweller start as an idea guy?
Yes, the only idea guys worth having are the ones that can also raise money, or provide it.He came with money, no? He even bought Torque.
While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with this particular point. It is more difficult today to put together a game that will have a chance in the marketplace than it used to be. It is fairly simple to put together a platformer, as shown by numerous indie games, but that is not enough to compete. NES and prior graphics were something that did not require a real artist's input. This creates a barrier to entry in terms of time/money for the hobbyist.I think it's like this: If you're a person with the status of Sid Meier, Richard Garriott, Will Wright, or Peter Molyneaux , you can get away with just being "the idea guy". Here's the rub - all of them started out by programming their breakthrough games themselves. You've got to put in your time in the trenches to prove yourself.
Anyway it's not nearly as hard today to put a game together as it was in the old days. The amount of options and tools out there are staggering. Don't be lazy, just take some time to learn how to build a game yourself. Even if you just make a prototype with "programmer art" at least that's something to show off your "amazing" concept to potential collaborators (or investors / backers).
That's a good point and I agree, there are some areas that are harder to achieve because the bar has been raised so much. Especially quality of graphics and level of polish - which are needed to stand out if it's to be a commercially successful project. I should clarify that I meant more on the technical end - there are so many tools - from game makers and visual scripting to various middleware and Unity add-ons that make it easier for someone to get a game up and running. But you are right - the market is so saturated now, a game has to have some real quality (gameplay, graphics, presentation / polish) to even get noticed. Unless it's based on a "flash in the pan" gimmick (like Goat Simulator or Flappy Bird - which are anomalies).While I agree with most of what you said, I disagree with this particular point. It is more difficult today to put together a game that will have a chance in the marketplace than it used to be. It is fairly simple to put together a platformer, as shown by numerous indie games, but that is not enough to compete. NES and prior graphics were something that did not require a real artist's input. This creates a barrier to entry in terms of time/money for the hobbyist.
Some thing are easier, but others are more difficult.
Starting with a wonderful idea and no technical expertise of any sort is how games like Gone Home are made.
Used to work as a car mechanic. You are doing well, show your drawing so I can tell if this will work. I don't know, maybe we can work together. It's easier to make cars out of crayon drawing than to expect people to make games for you.Congratulations, now make a twitter account to complain about inclusiveness and you're an indie gamedev. Might wanna color your hair something interesting, like purple.
Slightly off-topic, guys I made a cool crayon drawing of a car, know of any car mechanics that would be willing to implement my car ideas? I can use a screwdriver and a hammer so at least that's something, I guess. We would make a great team.
The problem is I would rather not code them myself, and I have zero artistic talent.
Starting with a wonderful idea and no technical expertise of any sort is how games like Gone Home are made.
I know you guys mean well, but there is a bit too much crowd-thinking here. First of all, there is confusion about what "ideas" mean. I don't mean it in a way that you come up with some high level idea, like "oh, let's make a game about A with mechanic B". I mean it as actual design, where you come up with detailed gameplay mechanics, which is actually a lot of VERY important work that is, in my opinion, not given enough attention in modern games, whether AAA or indie.
Also, I am not thinking of this as some kind of formal BS, I was thinking more in terms of hooking up with likeminded gamers, bouncing ideas off walls, and if and only if they are interested, trying to create something together. In that context, doing design plus things like writing, level design and whatever else would actually be quite a lot of work, and not some freeloader trying to get by using others' work.
When people start thinking in the same way as everyone else, that's stagnation and the opposite of thinking. I think everyone trying to be a programmer and/or artist is a terrible idea myself, because it is extremely inefficient. I should spend years making some shitty mods, then spend more time learning game programming even though that doesn't interest me in the slightest just so I can be a shitty 2nd rate game programmer just so I can finally get to design interesting games? Or every good game programmer should try to make his own game, even though most of their ideas are terrible, as evidenced by the current glut of these horrible indie games that god knows who buys and plays? How about people instead stick to what they are actually good? Yes, yes I know, how would they know if I am any good at design since I don't have anything on my resume, but that's the point of meeting up with like-minded people and talking about games and ideas. If these sound like shit, they are free to walk away.
Alright, you have been me convinced of your determination.
Now, this is my recommendation.
Design your game and then post the parts of the design documents that you feel need feedback in a thread in this subforum. I don't think anybody have problems giving you feedback on that.
If everything in your design document is brilliant, who knows? Vault Dweller or others might be interested in teaming up with you.
If nothing else, this is time spent better than you trying to convince people of the validity of your sale pitch approach.
Now we're just being dicks. But it's not groupthink, it's the universal experience of every programmer who's ever worked for an idea guy.I know you guys mean well, but there is a bit too much crowd-thinking here.
lol, gamers be like "I gotta SICK IDEA bruh.. like, there was a NUCLEAR WAR or no maybe a ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE and here's the kicker, you play a TRANNY CAR THIEF"I was thinking more in terms of hooking up with likeminded gamers
Those are fucking idea guys!! Also known as game "developers", who would know their ideas are shit if they were good programmers.... 'cause 90% of programming is background research, thinking things through, figuring out how to organize your data, and deciding if the project is worth doing, before you really start coding. But you just can't do it if you don't know how to code, you're just daydreaming.Or every good game programmer should try to make his own game, even though most of their ideas are terrible, as evidenced by the current glut of these horrible indie games
I think everyone trying to be a programmer and/or artist is a terrible idea myself, because it is extremely inefficient. I should spend years making some shitty mods, then spend more time learning game programming even though that doesn't interest me in the slightest just so I can be a shitty 2nd rate game programmer just so I can finally get to design interesting games?
Or every good game programmer should try to make his own game, even though most of their ideas are terrible, as evidenced by the current glut of these horrible indie games that god knows who buys and plays?
The fact that you chose Java means you're a bad game designer.check http://www.java-gaming.org/ but it's a programming forum.
The fact that you chose Java means you're a bad game designer.check http://www.java-gaming.org/ but it's a programming forum.
You wouldn't be complaining if the crowd-think would involve people slurping up your ideas. Oh wait, you still haven't shared anything. Post a design doc here, get destroyed by critique like 99% of ideas men or become next RPGCodex gamedev messiah.but there is a bit too much crowd-thinking here.
I agree. I think ultimately most of us who want to make games don't have the full package somehow. I can code, for example. I've coded a lot over the years in many languages. But for hte life of me I can't make a game. Not creative enough. Work too slowly. Work on the wrong things. Lose interest quickly. I found this out because I've tried to make games.I think it's like this: If you're a person with the status of Sid Meier, Richard Garriott, Will Wright, or Peter Molyneaux , you can get away with just being "the idea guy". Here's the rub - all of them started out by programming their breakthrough games themselves. You've got to put in your time in the trenches to prove yourself.
Anyway it's not nearly as hard today to put a game together as it was in the old days. The amount of options and tools out there are staggering. Don't be lazy, just take some time to learn how to build a game yourself. Even if you just make a prototype with "programmer art" at least that's something to show off your "amazing" concept to potential collaborators (or investors / backers).