Risen 3: Titan Lords

[toro]

This is sad. Didn't play Risen2 yet so can't evaluate comparisons with it.
Anyhow, i'm not sad generally as there seems to be a lot of fine games made since 2008 that i haven't played yet so fuck risens.

Good choice. The entire franchise is a waste of time cause there is no consistency between Risen, Risen 2 and Risen 3. They have a couple of islands in common but the game world is simply incoherent - plot happens because it happens, the protagonist changes between games, retarded factions appear from nowhere, magic is lost and found, basic systems like combat are changed and so on. If you would have to play the entire series then you have to spend at least 100h+ in total and there no real payoff. Is true that PB games have a special atmosphere but that's simply not enough to justify the effort.

Personally I finished them because Gothic was simply awesome and I needed my dose of exploration. Heck, I still remember Diego, Gorn, Lester, Milten and Lee (even Xardas) and I refused to believe that PB has lost it. I wanted to like Risen and I was ready to overlook some shit but their track record is too much: 2 great games, 1 failure (good game if combat is dismissed), 1 mediocre game followed by 2 complete chores with pathetic DLCs. PB developed in complete isolation from the community, they made compromises for consoles and the local german praise functions like an echo chamber for them. This is one dead developer.

And think about this: after 3 games the story arc or the main story has no conclusion - the world is in the same shitty state as in the beginning and the protagonist is AWOL. Which means that they have no idea what to do with this franchise except trying to get as much cash as possible. This is not the product of some vision and you lose nothing by not playing it.

 

[adddeed]

Go read some books if you want stories.

 

[Stainless Veteran]

Go read some books if you want stories.

, indeed.

 

[Tigranes]

Story and dialog are typical PB stuff - you like it or hate it.

I call bullshit. The story and dialoguing might be the worst PB has done yet, and it's an absolute nosedive from Ri2en, where the writing was the sole saving grace.

Uh, what? Risen 2 story good? It was a Pirates of the Carribean fan fiction and basically indistinguishable from Risen 3. They were both good at connecting the backstories & conceits of each island together, and bad at pretty much everything else. The only real difference is that R3 has too many skeletons.

I still haven't finished Risen, but it's world and enemies are very boring so i don't think R3 can be any worse. Also i don't get the thing about R combat being any good. It's still mainly LB mashing with occasional situations, where blocking with shield is handy. I mostly release Fred to distract enemies and smash them from behind. Fred can take a lot of punishing before crumbling. Exploration is also only fun as far as seeing the all new vistas, because all the treasure chests have shit items in them. The best two handed sword is the one you make from obsidian yourself so i don't get the point of all these rune swords, berserkers and ones you reasemble from two broken parts as they are average. The only fun thing about Risen is dialoguing and quest solving before joining the fraction. Now at the stage were i need to get the titan armor and hesitating to continue. Seems like borefest from now on.

Using summons makes combat trivial in every PB game, none of which ever learned to handle combat between multiple participants properly. It works best when it's you against the other guy, or maybe you against 2-3 enemies where you can get chewed up the arse.

Risen 1's genuine flaws do include (1) shitty loot distribution, (2) shitty endgame, just like all PB games. The excellent exploration, early game quests, and well tuned combat takes it very far though. Gothics were always very simple games that got a few things very very right. Now that those things are gone...

 

[cvv]

Go read some books if you want stories.

, indeed.

DU should level up that tag a notch.

 

[Zeriel]

The tits are definitely a nice improvement. Too bad she's your fucking sister.

I don't get this shit. Are you guise actually larping lovers in games? What difference does it make that she is your protagonist's whatever?

People don't want to fantasize about their own sisters, and what other reason would you have to play Risen 3 if not for boobs?

Having never had a sister, I have no problem fantasizing about a sister in some video game.

Those floppy tits, though... not fantasizable.

 

[Bubbles]

And think about this: after 3 games the story arc or the main story has no conclusion - the world is in the same shitty state as in the beginning and the protagonist is AWOL. Which means that they have no idea what to do with this franchise except trying to get as much cash as possible. This is not the product of some vision and you lose nothing by not playing it.

Actually it has a conclusion, because the series is over now. You may not find it satisfying, but it is finished.

 

[toro]

And think about this: after 3 games the story arc or the main story has no conclusion - the world is in the same shitty state as in the beginning and the protagonist is AWOL. Which means that they have no idea what to do with this franchise except trying to get as much cash as possible. This is not the product of some vision and you lose nothing by not playing it.

Actually it has a conclusion, because the series is over now. You may not find it satisfying, but it is finished.

I think we have different notions about what a conclusion means.

And the series might not be as dead as it should.

 

[Tigranes]

I would love a Gothic style game in an Expeditions: Conquistador setting - what they tried to do with Risen but better. But since that's too similar, it's unlikely.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Just started this, combat is really fucking terrible, it's floaty, has no weight, isn't fluid, has shitty collision detection (lost count how many times my hits went through a dragon snapper) and has rolling (though Risen 2 already had this IIRC) instead of dodging/sidestep to add to the insult. I have no idea how one can go from designing such an excellent ARPG combat system in the first Risen to this crap. Maybe it will improve once I buy/train/upgrade some skills.

That said, exploration seems improved over Risen 2, I'm at the very beginning but already I've found a few locked chests and some legendary crab shell item when I wondered off the main path.

 

[1451]

Saying that exploration is better than in Risen 2 is meaningless. Risen 2 has no exploration at all. You must follow the tracks or the game teleports you. It's like saying Gran Turismo has exploration. You explore the tracks.

 

[Multidirectional]

Story and dialog are typical PB stuff - you like it or hate it.

I call bullshit. The story and dialoguing might be the worst PB has done yet, and it's an absolute nosedive from Ri2en, where the writing was the sole saving grace.

Uh, what? Risen 2 story good?

Main story wasn't any good but it has some really fun characters and dialogue. I haven't played much of Risen 3 yet (I'm actually replaying R1 for now), but from the little I've seen it was definitely a lot more boring as far as conversations go. I visited gnome island and even those don't seem to be funny anymore. And that protagonist VA is fucking atrocious. I actually quite liked the main char VA in R2, I wish they just kept him even if it's a different character.

 

[Alfons]

I have no idea how one can go from designing such an excellent ARPG combat system in the first Risen to this crap.

How is Risens combat system excellent?All of PB combat is rotten at the core.
Humanoid enemies have infinite parries that you can't effectively break and enemies dodge up the ass.Those two things might not be too bad by themselves but combine it with the fact that you can't pull enemies and that most groups consist of at least 3 mobs and you've got yourself a recipe for a shitty system right there.

 

[Tigranes]

Story and dialog are typical PB stuff - you like it or hate it.

I call bullshit. The story and dialoguing might be the worst PB has done yet, and it's an absolute nosedive from Ri2en, where the writing was the sole saving grace.

Uh, what? Risen 2 story good?

Main story wasn't any good but it has some really fun characters and dialogue. I haven't played much of Risen 3 yet (I'm actually replaying R1 for now), but from the little I've seen it was definitely a lot more boring as far as conversations go. I visited gnome island and even those don't seem to be funny anymore. And that protagonist VA is fucking atrocious. I actually quite liked the main char VA in R2, I wish they just kept him even if it's a different character.

Well if we're talking outside the main quest, R2 and R3 is a similar style, though one could argue it was fresher in R2.

I have no idea how one can go from designing such an excellent ARPG combat system in the first Risen to this crap.

How is Risens combat system excellent?All of PB combat is rotten at the core.
Humanoid enemies have infinite parries that you can't effectively break and enemies dodge up the ass.Those two things might not be too bad by themselves but combine it with the fact that you can't pull enemies and that most groups consist of at least 3 mobs and you've got yourself a recipe for a shitty system right there.

What the fuck? No infinite parries, no excessive dodge. Not in G1, Not in G2, Not in R1. What is broken is handling larger scale battles or ranged combat.

 

[Zeriel]

Just started this, combat is really fucking terrible, it's floaty, has no weight, isn't fluid, has shitty collision detection (lost count how many times my hits went through a dragon snapper) and has rolling (though Risen 2 already had this IIRC) instead of dodging/sidestep to add to the insult. I have no idea how one can go from designing such an excellent ARPG combat system in the first Risen to this crap. Maybe it will improve once I buy/train/upgrade some skills.

That said, exploration seems improved over Risen 2, I'm at the very beginning but already I've found a few locked chests and some legendary crab shell item when I wondered off the main path.

Excuuuuse me? Combat was pretty terrible objectively in Risen, and Gothic too. In the times of Gothic all action RPGs had terrible terrible combat, so we got used to it and didn't mind/notice. I suspect people only care now because they're comparing it to stuff like Dark Souls. The strength of Piranha Bytes was always world design, and just about nothing else.

 

[cvv]

Just started this, combat is really fucking terrible, it's floaty, has no weight, isn't fluid, has shitty collision detection (lost count how many times my hits went through a dragon snapper) and has rolling (though Risen 2 already had this IIRC) instead of dodging/sidestep to add to the insult. I have no idea how one can go from designing such an excellent ARPG combat system in the first Risen to this crap. Maybe it will improve once I buy/train/upgrade some skills

Usually I'd say mods will fix it but judging from the anemic modding scene around R2 this will stay in the shitter too.

Excuuuuse me? Combat was pretty terrible objectively in Risen, and Gothic too.

Hmm. If you compare it to a turn-based mechanics then sure. But narrowly speaking Risen 1 has the best action combat ever devised for an RPG, afaik, and I enjoyed it a lot. The one in Dark Souls might've been better if they hadn't lobotomized it with a controller.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Uh, what? Risen 2 story good? It was a Pirates of the Carribean fan fiction and basically indistinguishable from Risen 3.

Yeah, the story was pretty terrible, but the overall writing quality was good.

Excuuuuse me? Combat was pretty terrible objectively in Risen, and Gothic too.

Your face is objectively terrible.

 

[DeepOcean]

In Gothic One, I got from awesome scoundrel citadel ruled with iron fist that even trying to visit their bandit lord required a long quest chain and people were treated like they were a nothing, just fresh meat, courtesy of the king. You go to where the base of the water mages is and people are even more miserable, they living basicaly on a huge cave and on semi slave labour, with the population been kept in line by mercenaries paid by the mages and a really awesome third camp, the place where people are doing the better because they are fucking drug dealers and are a cult that worship some creepy God. How a really good fantasy setting became Disney's Pirates of the Caribean HERPA DERPA? Hmm? What happened to you Piranha Bytes? Brain cancer? Stupidity inducing variant of Ebola?

Call me autist but hearing the main character cursing using modern curse words and expressions is really distracting. It even appears that the protagonist was born on some North American ghetto and decided cosplay like a pirate, the batman voice makes me puke too, what a lack of taste. Gothic questlines were always kinda simplistic but they always fit some coherent theme like "Help the asshole bandit lord being even more of a asshole." or "Try to survive by being a better asshole than those around you." Now those "Kill 10 hell dogs minions of pirate LeChuk wannabe." to "Good, you killed 10 hell dogs minions of Pirate Le Chuck wannabe? Congratulations now you gonna kill 10 undead pirates minions of Pirate LeChuck Wannabe." So fucking boring.

Piranha Bytes, I know you don't have access to the Gothic brand but who the hell told you that you need to make a shit ass game because of that? Getting two nerds on meth on a room for a day, brainstoming on a decent setting and background was too expensive for you? Even if the fucking publisher rammed the pirate theme on your ass, there was nothing stopping you to do something decent with it.

 

[Zeriel]

Your face is objectively terrible.

I say this as someone who loves the Gothic games, and has played every Risen title. I've never found the combat objectionable personally, but I've never found it super engrossing either, so I'm willing to accept that most people don't think its that great.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Excuuuuse me? Combat was pretty terrible objectively in Risen, and Gothic too. In the times of Gothic all action RPGs had terrible terrible combat, so we got used to it and didn't mind/notice. I suspect people only care now because they're comparing it to stuff like Dark Souls. The strength of Piranha Bytes was always world design, and just about nothing else.

Combat in the first Gothic was a bit clunky I'll give you that but the same system improved in the sequel is quite good, simple but does its job well unless you're engaged with multiple combatants (gets a bit messy then but still manageable with some practice). I always liked (and wish it were implemented more in ARPGs) how improving your skill with a weapon in those games didn't just result in +to damage but made you visibly better with it (faster and smoother weapon swings, better combo, not using two hands to swing a 1H weapon etc.), it felt very rewarding to get your weapon handling to trained and after to master.

Risen 1 for me has terrific combat system, your hits have weight, attacks are fluid, dodging/sidestepping instead of rolling (which I absolutely fucking hate), blocks, parries, counterparries, power attacks, blocking etc. all are incorporated very well and for me melee combat in Risen is joy to engage in. Even the starting combat is fun:





Never played Dark Souls and I sincerely doubt I ever will, don't like using gamepads, consoles or shitty console ports (and as already mentioned, I detest rolling).

 

[Athelas]

Dark Souls is better.

 

[Bubbles]

Risen controls like a shitty console port anyway.

Piranha Bytes, I know you don't have access to the Gothic brand but who the hell told you that you need to make a shit ass game because of that?

Don't know where you got that idea, but PB have had the full and exclusive rights to the Gothic franchise (excluding Arcania) since 2011. They just wanted to continue with the Risen series instead.

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Risen controls like a shitty console port anyway.

Risen isn't a console port and controls fine.

 

[Zeriel]

ZagorTeNej

Yeah, that's probably the only thing about the combat I ever remember, the idea of proficiency as a skill that makes you better at fighting not in a statistical sense, but a patterns sense. It's a really great idea, and underused in games. The only other case I ever remember was Jedi Academy, and it was equally awesome in that game.

 

[Zewp]

How is Risens combat system excellent?All of PB combat is rotten at the core.
Humanoid enemies have infinite parries that you can't effectively break and enemies dodge up the ass.Those two things might not be too bad by themselves but combine it with the fact that you can't pull enemies and that most groups consist of at least 3 mobs and you've got yourself a recipe for a shitty system right there.

Don't forget that enemies attack three times faster than you because for some reason your character wants to dance instead of fight every time he attacks and that the only way to effectively defend against enemy attacks is to block or dodge, because running out of attack range just means enemies warp towards you if they're charging up an attack that has already locked onto you.

Overall, I really want to play the game but I can't be arsed to put up with the shit combat. In most pre-Risen 2 PB the combat was bad, but could be ignored. Risen 2 and 3's combat is just so shit that it really gets in the way of the rest of the game.