Should I bother with BG1? Spoilers probably.

[DraQ]

Ok, can you people post some more interesting-but-playable character builds (as fighter tank is just too boring)?
I'm willing to give this game yet another chance, and swear to not treat is as anything more than generic fantasy romp around the Sword Coast.

Crappy as it might be I'd rather complete it before playing the sequel.

 

[Murk]

Are you into playing with a full party, half-party (2-4 characters), or just going solo?

If you want to solo - thief/rogue for the backstabbing fun and dual to a mage when you max out as a thief (or get as much of the skills as you wanted). This way if you want you can still import and be very useful in BG 2 or just go with a new character there but still have a useful and fun character in BG 1.

Taking a straight warrior is easy but boring - I agree.

Otherwise, try playing a Bard or Druid and using a limited but capable party.

 

[DraQ]

Full party. Characters subtract a bit from the game's blandness, no?

 

[Murk]

I suppose!

I'm guessing you don't mind using evil characters? In which case I'd say take a class that actually does stuff and isn't already filled out in a manner that makes you pointless. So basically it doesn't matter what you take - in that case, go for awesome.

paladin that falls and then duals to necromancer for the win

multiclass of fighter mage and thief named MacGuyver

Cleric/ranger that uses throwing weapons (oh wait, no throwing hammers... err... your call on weapons then)

fighter/mage that uses thrown missile weapons and crowd control spells

you know, stuff. Are you going to be using Tutu?

 

[Jasede]

Don't use Tutu, for your own sake. Unless, of course, you just have to play in a higher resolution than 640x480. I don't see why, though. It fucks the balance up so bad, so do yourself a favour and don't use Tutu. And I haven't even touched on the terrible, terrible savegame corruption that occurs when you use Tutu and go to Beregost.

Yeah, don't. Well. Do if you like, it's your game... but I wouldn't.

Fun and playable? Fighter/Mage multiclass, Fighter/Thief multiclass, mage (once you get to level 5. Which you won't for a looooong time, so maybe not on your first time, no). Druids are fun, to me. I mean, they're not very good at anything but at least decent at most things, However, even though they level super-fast, they get a very sharp XP spike at level 14 in BG 2 and will suddenly turn from the fastest levelling character to the slowest until level 20, which is weird.

Oh, and cleric/thief. But that class is the ultimate in cheese. Best class you can take in AD&D 2, at least to my reckonning.

edit: Mika, I was being a tad sarcastic. Your party recommendation is very good. It just would be zero fun to me. A part without Edwin? And with Imoen and, I dare not say it, Minsc? Arghl~ (actually, Imoen -is- the best thief, unless you rush to Cloakwoad ASAP to get Coran early. This is pretty sad, actually. I hate Imoen. But either her, or yourself, or early-Coran, or get slaughtered mercilessly in Durlag's Tower)

 

[MetalCraze]

Except Tutu don't use Trilogy. it's the same shit. don't know about BG1 with it - but I managed to complete BG2 SoA only by using lot of console commands in the end and by installing the clean instance of BG2 because my savegames were constantly corrupted by that piece of shit so I had to load the same levels in a clean BG2 just to bypass constant crashes.

 

[DraQ]

One question:

How viable are fighter-mages?
I know that they are playable, but they seem less than sum of their component classes, as they can't cast while wearing armour anyway - it seems as an either-or class in any encounter.

Another one:

What are the good reasons for playing a bard compared to some more 'direct' classes, also, what kind of gear would you recommend for this kind of character?

 

[mjorkerina]

true; though Keldron vs a similar level mage fight will still go badly for him due to the power of magic in bg2. (maze, gate, disintegrate, powerwords,etc).

That would only be true if enemy mages all had access to a copy of the Robe of Vecna and amulet of power.
In real world BG2, Keldorn with Carsomyr is already cutting the enemy wizard defenses and killing him before he even got the chance of casting a spell. Carsomyr does a dispel each time you hit so it doesn't matter if you have a contingency spell programmed with protections.

Casting a spell takes time. Dispel the magical protections and you have plenty enough time to make the wizard taste the power of steel. Wizards only have as much power as they have time to cast their spells. Once you hit them, it's too late.

 

[Jasede]

Well, look, you really don't need to uber power-game this game. Just play what you like, you won't be screwed and there's some loot for everyone.


Fighter/Mage multiclass is amazing, better than a straight fighter or mage (though I still prefer pure classes, but in AD&D 2, there is no reason to). The Fighter/Mage can buff (dire armor, for example) himself and kick ass in melee; he can throw fireballs from afar, he can cast improved invisiblity later in BG 2 and all kinds of even better spells. Or he can hang back and crowd control with magic. His tactical options are nearly unmatched. Just the spell Mirror Image alone makes him worthwhile, but he gets so much more. (Of course if you use Tutu, Mirror Image is suddenly nearly useless compared to BG 1 vanilla, way to go. This also, like I said often, screw the game balance because the earlier wizard assassins are supposed to be tough. With the way mirror image works in Tutu they are no longer. Lame.)

Even better for BG 2 without ToB is the level 7 Kensai human dual-classed to a Mage, but that means you would have to play BG 1 with a fighter, and that's boring.

Bards are, for all intents and purposes, useless in BG 1 except to cheaply identify items. Whooo. That said, I am currently playing with a bard, mainly for the challenge - since you're not really good at anything, you need to make some tactical decisions quickly. Things improve once you learn some nice magic to buff yourself with. They're fun to play, I guess. Just don't expect to be even half as good as the Fighter/Mage. Bards do get cool stuff in BG 2 and can even become at least somewhat capable in melee with a BG 2 kit, but they'll still never be as great as Fighter/Mages, not even close.


Fighter/Mage isn't either/or since you can perfectly well fight without armor when you use Dire Armor and a shield and Mirror Image, and to give your enemies a real headache, Blur. It's a tad more dangerous than fullplate, of course, but that makes it fun. In BG 2 there's armor that will let you fight and cast at the same time, by the way. Until then, your buffs will carry you.

Good reasons for a bard? The stronghold in BG 2, the instruments in BG 2. There's not much reason to play a bard in BG 1 at all. Oh, hey, here's one: you can save Imoen skillpoints since she doesn't need pickpocket. Pickpocketing can give you very useful items. What gear? Uh, no armor, Bracers AC 6 or Bracers of Archery or Bracers Dex 18, depending on what you want to do. Drizzt's pickpocketable +3 Scimitar and any magic bow or crossbow. That's really all. Oh yeah, Algernon's Cloak. 20 (21) Cha is handy to have.

 

[mjorkerina]

Drizzt's pickpocketable +3 Scimitar

You don't steal drizzt. You make him understand what a cloud of arrows is. It's too bad that in BG2 you can't permakill him and his friend comes at you if you get his gear again. There's not a lot of so detestable NPCs.

 

[Jasede]

Hey, I only pickpocketed because I refuse to play with less than 32000 pathfinding nodes and am reluctant to trap him using 4 NPCs.

But once I find 3 wands of summon monster...

 

[DraQ]

So, basically, bard in BG1 is, uh, bard - musician and jack of all trades not particularily impressive at anything?

 

[RK47]

Yeah they really suffer from a lack of spell choices, not a very attractive choice compared to Fighter Mage multiclass.

 

[Murk]

edit: Mika, I was being a tad sarcastic. Your party recommendation is very good. It just would be zero fun to me. A part without Edwin? And with Imoen and, I dare not say it, Minsc? Arghl~ (actually, Imoen -is- the best thief, unless you rush to Cloakwoad ASAP to get Coran early. This is pretty sad, actually. I hate Imoen. But either her, or yourself, or early-Coran, or get slaughtered mercilessly in Durlag's Tower)

Oh no doubt, I took no offenes - I just clarified. I'm still new so I have no clue who's what or all that so I figured being neutral was the best case.

Edwin is one of my favourite NPCs in all of the BGs and I always used him when i would play with a party, but mages are somewhat underpowered in the majority of BG 1 - plus by the time he hits level 6 or 7 (on his first play through) I'm sure he'll have figured the game out enough to know what's what, hence my reccomendation of basically a slasher party.

I figure most first timers equip their druids/clerics with nothing but cure X wounds spells and all that, hence prefer a simple romp through.

 

[Murk]

So, basically, bard in BG1 is, uh, bard - musician and jack of all trades not particularily impressive at anything?

Well the bard is the everything class, that's why in the beginning he sucks at everything. But a few levels later, they get eye lasers... or something. I don't know, I never took Calculus.

Even if you pimp out your stats, you still don't matter.

The fighter/mage combo is great in every way - as need be, you CAN equip armor and go into the fray, the whole point however is that you can hang back and start lobbing dominate/fireball/sleep. Or do both - buff yourself up, toss on full plate, and go in with low AC, blur, mirror image, and any other spell you want on you (in the later levels it'll be stoneskin, improved invisibility, immunity to X weapons, globe of invulnerability...). You might think "well that's great but combat happens so often how can I afford to constantly be uber pimped out???". Well you don't - most combat is simple shit where your party mows down the opposition before they manage to land a hit, and your primary tank takes the brunt of that damage - and your buffed up battles are rarely in immediate sequences.

Except maybe areas where you have to take on multiple trolls or werewolves or something, but that shouldn't be an issue after leveling a few in BG 2

Now, imagine if you plan to use him as a ranged fighter? Full benefits of both - and armor won't be anywhere near as big of an issue. In BG 2 there are decent non-bard armors that let you cast and wear, and better yet, you'll go with the robe of Vecna anyway as you'll be tossing out spells like a machine gun.

Here's a simple strategy to use on large groups of fairly weak enemies that could pose as a threat in large groups. 1) Fireball/Cloudkill 2) arrows raining down from your fighter with 2+ attacks per round and another competent archer 3) you switch to melee to finish off whoever got close enough to you to deny them the 4 point penalty you suffer for having a ranged weapon against a melee.

And all the later protective buffs become very important (protection from ____, chaotic commands, stone skin (!!!!), etc.)

 

[Binary]

You may as well just use a character editor and set it exactly as you want it if you are going to do that. It would save you the trouble of rolling a million times to get the one you want.

Bah that's half the fun in this game!

 

[Binary]

Edwin is t3h uber leet caster, yes. But he *is* evil, which will be annoying for a good aligned party

Does that mean you don't kill Drizzt? Tsk tsk

If you wanna go evil, I'd suggest.

Front Line: Shar-Teel, Kagain.
Back Line: PC (Specced to Bow) Montaron, Vicky, Edwin.

I'd recommend Eldoth Kron instead of Shar-Teel. Playing with Tutu here, and I have Eldoth as a Skald - he's pretty useful with ranges weapons as well.

 

[Elwro]

That's really all. Oh yeah, Algernon's Cloak. 20 (21) Cha is handy to have.

I'm also playing a bard now (actually, I have about 1 hour a week for playing, so it doesn't count really) and have stolen this cloak recently. CHA boost seems really insignificant when compared to the charming powers of the cloak. They're ranged and I see no mentions of charges - are they limited at all? After I stole this item with a 1st level bard the game became a breeze.

 

[Jasede]

I think it has unlimited charges. The +2 CHA boost should reduce shop-prices, which is why I said it's handy. You do not get anything for more than 18 CHA in BG 1 (though you do get stuff for having 18)..

 

[Murk]

It's unlimited and somewhat of a broken item.

 

[AlanC9]

D&D 2.0 is the best balanced D&D edition out there by far. Aside from a few games like wasteland and jagged alliance, it is the best system that's ever been in a computer game. BG, on the other hand, uses it in a completely retarded realtime fashion which mostly ruins it..

Hold it. What's retarded about RTwP for 2nd edition? You call your actions, you roll initiative, you execute. How is this different from playing BG with an end-of-round autopause? It's the Gold Box games that trashed the system, as badly as NWN trashed 3rd edition.

 

[Binary]

D&D 2.0 is the best balanced D&D edition out there by far. Aside from a few games like wasteland and jagged alliance, it is the best system that's ever been in a computer game. BG, on the other hand, uses it in a completely retarded realtime fashion which mostly ruins it..

Hold it. What's retarded about RTwP for 2nd edition? You call your actions, you roll initiative, you execute. How is this different from playing BG with an end-of-round autopause? It's the Gold Box games that trashed the system, as badly as NWN trashed 3rd edition.

Most (all?) Goldbox games were D&D or AD&D. Not D&D 2.0

 

[AlanC9]

My understanding is that the initiative and action system wasn't any different from AD&D to 2.0. It's possible that my DM simply kept the AD&D system, though; I never ran a 2.0 game, so I never had the DMG.

 

[afewhours]

This is completely beside the point, but has anyone tried playing the game with an entirely Neutral party? I was just wondering if it was possible. I may reinstall the game just to see how viable a path it is.

Just looking at the NPCs, it looks bloody difficult. If you play Good, you get access to the Khalid/Kivan/Coran archery smackdown, the versatile Immy, and the powerful Minsc. If you play Evil, you get the melee wall of Kagain, the force of Shar-Teel and the almighty spell slinging of Edwin.

If you're Neutral, you get access to plenty of spell-slingers, but your archery and melee power sucks. Lessee.

Front Line: Jaheira + Gauntlets of Dexterity
Back Line: Branwen, Safana, (Give her the Tome of Int. and Dual class to mage at Lv. 6, to get a bit more mileage) Xan, Quayle (Yes, fucking Quayle)

Now, personally, I'd consider making the PC a fighter specced to Bow to boost your ranged power. Then I'd pile the armour on Branwen and put her on the front line. It's not the only option though.

It would be an interesting playthrough. Your party would be brittle, but there is a *ton* of arcane firepower there. You'd be relying on your spells an awful lot. You could keep Safana pure thief if you wanted, but I don't think those few extra levels of thief help a great deal in BG1.

 

[Murk]

Eh, fighter/cleric neutral main would easily bring forth the disinterested fury of the gods for reasons that aren't exactly explainable.