avatarrr
Novice
Mikayel said:
What are advantages / disadvantages for such a bild and what stats/proficencies should be taken into consideration?
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Should I bother with BG1? Spoilers probably.
- Thread starter NoisyKillerHPB
- Start date
What are advantages / disadvantages for such a bild and what stats/proficencies should be taken into consideration?
Murk
Arcane
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2008
- Messages
- 13,459
Yeah that's purely a flavour concept.
Necromaner is a pretty shitty mage kit and a fallen paladin is like a fighter-1.
The point behind that is that A) you're awesome, and B) the game is more challenging than if you were to take a "real" multi/dual class.
Imagine if you will that you go into a boxing match with an eye patch despite having 20/20 vision with both eyes. You're basically crippled and don't have any reason to do it, but you look REALLY FUCKING COOL.
Necromaner is a pretty shitty mage kit and a fallen paladin is like a fighter-1.
The point behind that is that A) you're awesome, and B) the game is more challenging than if you were to take a "real" multi/dual class.
Imagine if you will that you go into a boxing match with an eye patch despite having 20/20 vision with both eyes. You're basically crippled and don't have any reason to do it, but you look REALLY FUCKING COOL.
Azrael the cat
Arcane
skip it
I enjoyed BG1 when I played it. However, the last rpg I played before then was Wizardry 4, and it was a reintroduction to rpgs for me. Looking back, I'd say that BG2 is so much better (great replayability, much more strategically interesting combat, more developed though cliched NPCs, and best of all two fantastic villains that you fight numerous times over the course of the game and who get stronger during game just like you do rather than sitting in an end dungeon waitng for you to come kill them, plus an interesting twist on the tired 'chosen one' theme, where it manages to make it a completely personal story instead of 'save the world').
Of the IE games I played (in order) BG1, PS:T, BG2, ID. Despite playing PS:T before it (all games have felt a bit hollow since then), I still enjoyed BG2, but could never go back to BG1. BG2 is a very long game as is - I'd say skip straight to that. It starts slow for the 1st chapter, but after that it is MUCH more fun than BG1
I enjoyed BG1 when I played it. However, the last rpg I played before then was Wizardry 4, and it was a reintroduction to rpgs for me. Looking back, I'd say that BG2 is so much better (great replayability, much more strategically interesting combat, more developed though cliched NPCs, and best of all two fantastic villains that you fight numerous times over the course of the game and who get stronger during game just like you do rather than sitting in an end dungeon waitng for you to come kill them, plus an interesting twist on the tired 'chosen one' theme, where it manages to make it a completely personal story instead of 'save the world').
Of the IE games I played (in order) BG1, PS:T, BG2, ID. Despite playing PS:T before it (all games have felt a bit hollow since then), I still enjoyed BG2, but could never go back to BG1. BG2 is a very long game as is - I'd say skip straight to that. It starts slow for the 1st chapter, but after that it is MUCH more fun than BG1
Azrael the cat
Arcane
Imoen
I'd actually side strongly with those advocating taking Imoen a long...
...but NOT as merely the party thief. In 2nd ed ADnD power is all about the dual-classes, and Imoen is one of very few NPCs who has suitable stats (and is around early enough) to dual class. She makes an EXCELLENT dual class thief/mage - in fact at the time turning Imoen into a mage was such the standard powergaming strat for that game, that when you get her in BG2 it ASSUMES that you dual classed her accordingly.
Because thieving in BG2 is necessary but gimped, you want to avoid having a straight thief (mind you, in ToB they rock, but they certainly aren't necessary). What you want to do is get just enough thief levels to raise detect traps/remove traps and pick locks to a respectable amount. Some hide/sneak may be useful, but you'll be killing all enemies anyway, so there really isn't much benefit in sneaking past people except maybe to set up a fireball cast (ignore pickpocket - later on you can buff that with potions whenever you need to use it). You can actually do that without taking that many rogue levels - so the perfect rogue in the game is to get just enough in those skills, and then dual class to mage (preferably) or fighter (works ok). Coran is an ok option as multiclass thief/fighter, but as the game goes on Imoen dual-classed becomes increasingly more powerful, as if you time the dual class right she'll have access to the same level of spells as a straight mage. Boot up BG2 and look at what rogue lvl they dual classes Imoen at - that's basically where you want to dual class her in BG1, as they get it spot on as far as I can recall. You'll need another rogue (Coran) while she is gaining those mage levels until she re-unlocks her rogue abilities (has to reach the same level in mage that she was in rogue when she dual classed).
Do that correctly, and you'll have the most useful rogue possible in the game - i.e. a mage that has all the rogue abilities that you'll 'need' to get through the game without missing anything (very occasionally in BG2 you'll need to buff with thievery potions), whilst still being an excellent mage.
I'd actually side strongly with those advocating taking Imoen a long...
...but NOT as merely the party thief. In 2nd ed ADnD power is all about the dual-classes, and Imoen is one of very few NPCs who has suitable stats (and is around early enough) to dual class. She makes an EXCELLENT dual class thief/mage - in fact at the time turning Imoen into a mage was such the standard powergaming strat for that game, that when you get her in BG2 it ASSUMES that you dual classed her accordingly.
Because thieving in BG2 is necessary but gimped, you want to avoid having a straight thief (mind you, in ToB they rock, but they certainly aren't necessary). What you want to do is get just enough thief levels to raise detect traps/remove traps and pick locks to a respectable amount. Some hide/sneak may be useful, but you'll be killing all enemies anyway, so there really isn't much benefit in sneaking past people except maybe to set up a fireball cast (ignore pickpocket - later on you can buff that with potions whenever you need to use it). You can actually do that without taking that many rogue levels - so the perfect rogue in the game is to get just enough in those skills, and then dual class to mage (preferably) or fighter (works ok). Coran is an ok option as multiclass thief/fighter, but as the game goes on Imoen dual-classed becomes increasingly more powerful, as if you time the dual class right she'll have access to the same level of spells as a straight mage. Boot up BG2 and look at what rogue lvl they dual classes Imoen at - that's basically where you want to dual class her in BG1, as they get it spot on as far as I can recall. You'll need another rogue (Coran) while she is gaining those mage levels until she re-unlocks her rogue abilities (has to reach the same level in mage that she was in rogue when she dual classed).
Do that correctly, and you'll have the most useful rogue possible in the game - i.e. a mage that has all the rogue abilities that you'll 'need' to get through the game without missing anything (very occasionally in BG2 you'll need to buff with thievery potions), whilst still being an excellent mage.
azrael the cat said:
BG2 dual-classes her at lv. 7. This isn't ideal for BG1 as it means she can only hit mage lv. 8. If you want to get the most bang out of her, you want to dual her at lv. 6.
I think you've missed out the other useful aspect of the build. Immy gets a ton more hit points than any NPC mage, and can use half-decent weapons - she can hold her own with a bow and wear leather armour while other mages are just running in terror. That DEX 18 and CON 16 certainly don't hurt.
Oh yeah, and if you keep Immy around for ToB, her abilities start increasing, which is also nice. I can't remember which ones, but I think her STR and DEX increase.
Suchy
Arcane
Imo BG1 was more fun than BG2. Yeah, BG2 had better story and more developed characters, but it was a very linear dungeon crawler.
What I really liked about BG1 was the freedom of exploration, you could go anywhere you wanted and discover new locations on your own, while in BG2 you were mostly stuck in the city and some dungeons (damn, I so hated the Underdark part) and a few countryside locations where you could go only after someone told you about them.
What I really liked about BG1 was the freedom of exploration, you could go anywhere you wanted and discover new locations on your own, while in BG2 you were mostly stuck in the city and some dungeons (damn, I so hated the Underdark part) and a few countryside locations where you could go only after someone told you about them.
Hory
Erudite
- Joined
- Oct 1, 2003
- Messages
- 3,002
I spent more time outside of combat than in combat in BG2. I definitely don't consider it a dungeon crawler. BG1 is much more of that, and isn't particularly non-linear either. It just has these big spaces with NPCs placed around randomly, with no logic and purpose behind them other than to add more hours to the game. BG2 is larger and with better content. One of the few games where I can use "epic" to describe it in a good way.Suchy said:
Suchy
Arcane
I just don't like dungeons. In general. Because of dungeons I gave up on Icewind Dale, Diablo lasted something like 30 minutes. I even couldn't finish Ultima Underworld (damn good game, but it's all dungeon).Jasede said:
I totally agree that BG2 had more and better content than BG1, but for some reason (more open spaces, free roaming) I enjoyed BG1 more. Yeah, there was dungeon crawling too, but on much less scale. To "finish" a dungeon it took up to few hours max.
Andhaira
Arcane
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2007
- Messages
- 1,868,990
Well the name of ther game IS dungeons and dragons.
(though there were no dragons in bg1...)
ANyhow I personally loathe the underdark in any of its incarnations. I also hate dark elves, which are IMO a stupid concept with sexually perverte and racist undertones.
(though there were no dragons in bg1...)
ANyhow I personally loathe the underdark in any of its incarnations. I also hate dark elves, which are IMO a stupid concept with sexually perverte and racist undertones.
mjorkerina
Scholar
-> Suchy
BG1 had less "dungeons" but all those greeny foresty maps are just like dungeons, there was nothing of interest to do beside endlessly killing kobolds and so on. Oh, some fedex quests with two or three lines of dialogues. Joy!
And why should I care about having lots of small cities to "explore" when they have nothing to do in there either ? the drow city in the underdark has better quests than ANY of the cities in BG1 beside maybe Baldur's Gate itself.
You should play Morrowind. It's a game that is tailored for people like you.
-> Andhaira
You are either the best troll of rpgcodex, or the most retarded person to come here. The choice is yours.
BG1 had less "dungeons" but all those greeny foresty maps are just like dungeons, there was nothing of interest to do beside endlessly killing kobolds and so on. Oh, some fedex quests with two or three lines of dialogues. Joy!
And why should I care about having lots of small cities to "explore" when they have nothing to do in there either ? the drow city in the underdark has better quests than ANY of the cities in BG1 beside maybe Baldur's Gate itself.
You should play Morrowind. It's a game that is tailored for people like you.
-> Andhaira
You are either the best troll of rpgcodex, or the most retarded person to come here. The choice is yours.
Suchy
Arcane
I liked the world. And it was the only thing I liked about this game.
I know the "open" spaces in BG1 didn't differ from generic dungeons in terms of gameplay, but still they had a different feel.
mjorkerina
Scholar
-> Suchy
The only difference is in the graphics, it's not more than that. The structure of the "open" spaces in BG1 can match perfectly what you expect from dungeons, they don't give you the ability to climb or swim the natural obstacles and some areas are so constrained you can say they have entries and exits. For that matter, even though Daggerfall fail to what i'd expect in a cRPG it has some of the best exploration features and it's one of the rare games that gives you the climbing skill (and levitation magic, still present in Morrowind and one of the TES features cut in LolBlivion), something you don't see too often. It's irritating to think that most games nowadays are using 3d engines only for the sake of eye candy and don't make use of what 3d can offer in term of gameplay.
-> Andhaira
Your comment on the underdark is just adding on the lot that makes your whole being, it's not a huge troll by itself if taken out of the context that you are the rat diplomat. Each time you say something that is on your mind it doesn't do you well.
The only difference is in the graphics, it's not more than that. The structure of the "open" spaces in BG1 can match perfectly what you expect from dungeons, they don't give you the ability to climb or swim the natural obstacles and some areas are so constrained you can say they have entries and exits. For that matter, even though Daggerfall fail to what i'd expect in a cRPG it has some of the best exploration features and it's one of the rare games that gives you the climbing skill (and levitation magic, still present in Morrowind and one of the TES features cut in LolBlivion), something you don't see too often. It's irritating to think that most games nowadays are using 3d engines only for the sake of eye candy and don't make use of what 3d can offer in term of gameplay.
-> Andhaira
Your comment on the underdark is just adding on the lot that makes your whole being, it's not a huge troll by itself if taken out of the context that you are the rat diplomat. Each time you say something that is on your mind it doesn't do you well.
Suchy
Arcane
@mjorkerina
I fully agree - the only difference between dungeons and open spaces in BG games was the graphics. But since it looked different, it also created a different feel - and that was enough for me. In a fantasy RPG, I'd pick a generic medieval-looking countryside area over a generic medieval-looking dungeon anytime. No idea why, really... Maybe because in a random village you can usually bump on a tavern, and well made taverns are a goddamn must in a self respecting RPG. Nothing beats The Witcher in this field.
As for Morrowind, it could have been a really good game. The world was huge and varied, some quests were fun too. But the main story (The Chosen One From An Ancient Prophecy Saves The Wolrd Once Again) and complete lack of dialogues which lead to your character having absolutely no ways of expressing himself, made this game a pretty boring action/exploration sim, not a good RPG.
Can you even call that wiki-style browsing a dialogue?
I fully agree - the only difference between dungeons and open spaces in BG games was the graphics. But since it looked different, it also created a different feel - and that was enough for me. In a fantasy RPG, I'd pick a generic medieval-looking countryside area over a generic medieval-looking dungeon anytime. No idea why, really... Maybe because in a random village you can usually bump on a tavern, and well made taverns are a goddamn must in a self respecting RPG. Nothing beats The Witcher in this field.
As for Morrowind, it could have been a really good game. The world was huge and varied, some quests were fun too. But the main story (The Chosen One From An Ancient Prophecy Saves The Wolrd Once Again) and complete lack of dialogues which lead to your character having absolutely no ways of expressing himself, made this game a pretty boring action/exploration sim, not a good RPG.
Can you even call that wiki-style browsing a dialogue?
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