So, plenty of you wish to get 'updated' oldies, eh?

[Carlos' Bitch1]

I noticed in the following thread:

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php ... 04#1691504

Plenty of people giving their wish list for updated old CRPG's....well, in that case...

I think people here should elect what sort of game they want these oldies turned into. The current crop of CRPG's is, by and large, a joke, so this is all I envision when I hear 'updating'.

The pre-requisites of an update request should address the following;

Bearing in mind that all of these games can still be played quite easily today, using emulators/dosbox if necessary....

1. Why does it need to be updated?

2. Into what form?/ What Engine?/ What kind of 'CRPG'?

3. Why your choice is a good idea and why it is better than the original.

Without these answered, it is all piss in the wind and the update should be assumed to use the Dragon Age 2 engine (insert other retarded modern 'RPG' game). The answers should also provide plenty of arguments and debate.

 

[RK47]

Ultima 8

Originally, it features a departure from the classic party based adventure and abandons the familiar world of Britannia for a largely alien-civilization of Pagan. A world where the people itself worships Titans, and the Guardian seemingly holds in his iron grip. The objective of the player (Avatar) is to escape Pagan and return to Britannia.
1. Why does it need to be updated?

It has shitty jumping puzzles and shallow repetitive click combat system which doesn't deepen the gameplay one bit. The jumping was a novelty, until you die from sinking stones and lava drops. Including a fixed isometric camera system which obscures view at certain angles. Also, quests that was so vague in instruction that they had to introduce a patch to fix the in-game instructions and introduced targeted jumping. Avatar can not fail a jump with the targeted jumping now.

The magic system has been changed to one of rituals and preparations of spells, usage of focus. Combat doesn't really make the meat of the game, most monsters possess very little loot, and the avatar only gains attributes increases from doing mundane tasks like hitting something (STR/DEX), reading books(INT), climbing ledges(STR/DEX).

2. Into what form?/ What Engine?/ What kind of 'CRPG'?

A remake through The Witcher 2 engine would remove the dullness and enhance encounters with Ogres, Kiths, Changeling, and other beasts of Pagan. It would not hurt to import over some of the Alchemy features from Witcher into the game world for added exploration bonuses (Rare reagents for powerful oils / mixtures)

3. Why your choice is a good idea and why it is better than the original.

What Witcher 2 lacks is a large open world to explore, while Pagan lacks involving combat from its final iteration. I think, if you marry both games together, we'll see something special from the tale of Survival and Avatar's escape from Pagan.

Also: hallucinogenic mushrooms Avatar trip while slaughtering hostile children in the wilderness with explosive bomb flasks.

Also: Avatar needs to have sex with the Widow. It's only right. And the executioner. And the queen.

 

[Shannow]

And you needed to start a new thread for this because....?

 

[Trash]

'Updates' are akin to Hollywood remakes. Let's not go there.

 

[Konjad]

I need no stinkin' remakes. Perhaps patches to run on modern systems with no issues and that's all.

 

[JarlFrank]

When I think of an update or, as they are more commonly referred to, remake, I expect the following things:

Keep the gameplay and general style of the game. We liked the game because of its specific gameplay elements, so changing or even removing anything would ruin it. Also, keep the original artstyle. If you want to update the graphics, do so if you must, but changing the artstyle is usually a bad idea. If you go from old low res 2D graphics to 3D, you might think it's also a good idea to change the artstyle, but no, it's a bad idea. Best to stay as true to the original as possible.

So, if neither graphics nor gameplay should be changed much, what's the point of a remake?

Well, if there is one thing that can be off-putting about old games, it's the interface. Lots of menus and sub-menus just to select an attack, cumbersome inventories, lack of auto-map (which can be a good thing if you like mapping yourself), no full mouse support, etc etc. If you're used to all the easy to use interfaces of the modern age (and by that I do not mean modern consolized interfaces, but just more easy to use interfaces that give you a good overview over your skills and inventory, and which are not a pain to navigate), going back to late 80's games can be incredibly painful, and some early 90's games also feel rather cumbersome.

So, basically, what I'd like from a remake is to keep the gameplay, keep the graphics, maybe make some improvements to these two aspects if they fit, but don't make any radical changes. Instead, put the emphasis on "streamlining" the interface and making it as comfortable to use as possible. That's it.

 

[thursdayschild]

I noticed in the following thread:

http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php ... 04#1691504

Plenty of people giving their wish list for updated old CRPG's....well, in that case...

I think people here should elect what sort of game they want these oldies turned into. The current crop of CRPG's is, by and large, a joke, so this is all I envision when I hear 'updating'.

The pre-requisites of an update request should address the following;

Bearing in mind that all of these games can still be played quite easily today, using emulators/dosbox if necessary....

1. Why does it need to be updated?

2. Into what form?/ What Engine?/ What kind of 'CRPG'?

3. Why your choice is a good idea and why it is better than the original.

Without these answered, it is all piss in the wind and the update should be assumed to use the Dragon Age 2 engine (insert other retarded modern 'RPG' game). The answers should also provide plenty of arguments and debate.

reason 4563 Blackadders is a moron.

obviously everyone wants them exactly the same but with modern graphics. Kill yourself.

 

[Dyskolos]

So, basically, what I'd like from a remake is to keep the gameplay, keep the graphics, maybe make some improvements to these two aspects if they fit, but don't make any radical changes. Instead, put the emphasis on "streamlining" the interface and making it as comfortable to use as possible. That's it.

Basically it. I've always wondered if its the clunky complexity of the interfaces rather than the 'bad' graphics or 'archaic' gameplay that keeps a number of otherwise well-intentioned and interested young gamers away from the old stuff.

 

[made]

Witcher 2 engine for Ultima eh? The engine we know fuck all about except that it has trouble with doors and made for one pretty game? Can it handle a big, open world? Does it even support jumping, the key gameplay element of U8?

 

[Eyeball]

Lots of games could benefit from being remade. If we remove our rose-tinted glasses for a second, it is undeniable that many of the classic games of the early nineties and before may have had good difficulty and gameplay but were also unwieldy as fuck and looked like pastel-coloured ass. Updating the early D&D games to, say, early 2000s grade graphics and putting in an interface that doesn't suck would make these games BETTER, no question.

Remakes only become a problem when they're demakes, changing too many core gameplay factors to appeal to a bigger group of people. See the abominable new Jagged Alliance 2 being released shortly for clarification. And JA2 had a great interface and looked completely functional too, no need for a remake at all.

 

[RK47]

Does it even support jumping, the key gameplay element of U8?

I can't help you.

 

[MasterSmithFandango]

Crisper graphics and better interface, keyboard and mouse support. And cut scenes. Millions of cut scenes. I want to watch my games, not play them.

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

Only one person that sticks to the format. Wonderful.

RK-47, I salute you.

In a nutshell, I wanted people to take the game/s that they really want updated, explain why they want it updated (eg: look at RK-47's post. Elaborate further if you want to), how it should be done and what with, and then say why this is such a huge improvement.

Some of you surely have a game in mind when you wish, let us say, an updated Goldbox series. Think of the above and then address the questions. I tried to make it as simple an exercise as possible.

Just talking about generic chitchat has been done a thousand times before, including in the thread I linked to, and it is too easy to get away with. What is bad about that particular interface (explain the interface if you must, not just 'its shit lulz')? Why would some new option you want in be such a great idea, and isn't it possible that this idea may actually be worse?

Do I need to explain this further? Or is this understandable? Take one game you really want updated, or more if you are verbose enough/have enough time, and think about it for a little while, and answer the questions. I cannot provide a quest compass. Apologies in advance.

 

[Shannow]

And you needed to start a new thread for this because....?

 

[Carlos' Bitch1]

And you needed to start a new thread for this because....?

I made this thread seperate because many people had already posted in the linked thread, and I thought they probably wouldn't bother going back to it now they have made their post.

I already understand that you don't believe in updating old games, and prefer either a sequel or a newer game based on similar lines (Wasteland - Fallout).

From the lack of effort so far, I have to assume that most people really don't know what they want.

 

[ever]

Maybe the lack of effort is because its frustrating to point out the obvious. 99% of the replies will be

"Game x would have benefited from a better interface, more text cause of the lack of memory constraints, a more interactive world, the feature found in sequel y"

and so on.

I mean do you really have to be *told* why Ultima IV ( the game I recommended ) would be better if its engine was more like Ultima VII's.

 

[Cosmo]

So, basically, what I'd like from a remake is to keep the gameplay, keep the graphics, maybe make some improvements to these two aspects if they fit, but don't make any radical changes. Instead, put the emphasis on "streamlining" the interface and making it as comfortable to use as possible. That's it.

 

[Sceptic]

From the lack of effort so far, I have to assume that most people really don't know what they want.

I know exactly what I want, but I won't use your format because, for what I want, the only answer to your questions is "not applicable".

I want an update. Not a remake, not a reimagining, not a spiritual successor, not a streamlined experience for the next-generation, just a plain update/port. There is no "form" or "kind of CRPG" that it will magically mutate into - I want the exact same damn game, running natively under my OS of choice without having to go through an emulator. For 3D games (or 2.5D) increased resolution is the obvious advantage, but I don't want any flashy changes to the way visuals work. Compare ZDoom and Doomsday; I don't like Doomsday because it changes the way the game renders sector lighting, and as a result many levels look completely different and much brighter than they should, while ZDoom has a lovely "like Doom" option for lighting that makes it pretty much identical to the original. Therefore ZDoom is my choice of update.*

Another update/port that I approve of: Exult. Recreation of the game without the quirkiness of the Ultima 7 engine. A not-immediately-obvious advantage: ability to play around with the usecode to restore cut content. See the Serpent Isle "unofficial patch".

And while DOSBox is great, the computer that will run Battlespire or Redguard on full screen at a decent frame rate does not exist yet. An update solves the problem immediately. Added advantage for Battlespire: higher resolutions.

I'm generally not a huge fan of graphical updates like the Sierra remakes. They're nice, but there's too much reimagining that goes into them (the KQ2 remake in particular is terrible about this). Now, if someone were to unearth all the Conquest of the Longbow paintings used to make the backgrounds, rescan them at high resolution and integrate them into the game...


* In before DraQ

 

[Crooked Bee]

Battlespire

 

[DaveO]

Following the format from the initial post. Since my reply was to remake Phantasie I thru III, I'll give my reasons.


1. Why does it need to be updated?
The spells in the game do need serious tweaking(I'm looking at you Fireflash IV), and character advancement could be better.

2. Into what form?/ What Engine?/ What kind of 'CRPG'?
I'd be happy with using the Infinity Engine. I'm not a graphics whore.

3. Why your choice is a good idea and why it is better than the original.
If Phantasie I-III were remade using the Infinity Engine, I could imagine a game just as good as many of the other IE games. That would be a significant over the game in its original state.

 

[Ebonsword]

If Phantasie I-III were remade using the Infinity Engine, I could imagine a game just as good as many of the other IE games. That would be a significant over the game in its original state.

Er, except for the fact that it would be going from turn-based to RTWP, which would be a MASSIVE .

 

[GarfunkeL]

Gold Box games into ToEE engine.

1. Why?

Mostly because of clunky interface. I can live with it, just like I can live with the graphics but I wouldn't mind seeing them improved.

2. Into what engine?

ToEE would be best, as it would allow maximum party control in combat. However, since the GB games use 3D-view in dungeons coupled with overland maps but ToEE supports overland map so one would need to "only" transform the first-person dungeons into isometric maps. This could work as long as the dungeon tunnels are wide enough so that the super-annoying path-finding problems would not surface all the time, like in IE games.

3. Good idea?

No more adventurer's journal or code-wheel as all text can be integrated into the game. Better interface would make playing the game smoother and easier as especially inventory management was a pain. No need for DosBox, though it works pretty well with GB. Proper soundtrack! General prettiness never hurts, either. And improved AI would make the combats more challenging in better way.

 

[Jaesun]

I want an update. Not a remake, not a reimagining, not a spiritual successor, not a streamlined experience for the next-generation, just a plain update/port. There is no "form" or "kind of CRPG" that it will magically mutate into - I want the exact same damn game, running natively under my OS of choice without having to go through an emulator.

 

[Garm]

Darklands


1. Why does it need to be updated?
It doesn't need to be. It'd just be nice to get a remake featuring more quests and events along with an updated UI and a graphics quality like PS:T or Fallout. Maybe remake the battle system into something turnbased like KotC or JA 2.

2. Into what form?/ What Engine?/ What kind of 'CRPG'?
Just an engine like Fallout's, Torque, or Infinity.

3. Why your choice is a good idea and why it is better than the original.
Well it would basically be the same game, just with a better interface and nice looking isometric art style like the previous games I mentioned. A remade battle system like I described would also be nice since the real time style it has is meh.

 

[Damned Registrations]

What JarlFrank said, with the addendum that I'm not as averse to graphical updates.

This is what I'm talking about.

Unfortunately, I believe that pic on the bottom right is from the genesis version, which cut out a bunch of the skills and generally dumbed things down. But at least it doesn't make my retinas wither.

 

[Zomg]

gold box games - exactly the same except the journal is in the game and the inventory is better. Like I don't have to buy darts 4 at a time. Also make autobattle instantaneous. And make 50 new goldbox modules

Darklands - but it really needs an overhaul from the ground up. Like for starters there needs to be a complete change to the "dungeon crawl" portion of the game, and the combat too while you are at it (could do with a 7.62mm type system). Better inventory, more balanced character creation... tons of shit. Darklands is an awkward prototype of a new subgenre of RPG