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Review The Escapist bitch-slaps The Witcher

Corvus.E

Novice
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
18
Nael said:
I've always felt that people with objections to sexuality in a game are just jealous of the guy in the game gettin laid. That's just human nature, and it's nothing to be ashamed of Corvus. :lol:

Yeah, you're a funny guy Nael.

I don't object to sexuality in a game. What I object to is dramatically imbalanced and derogatory gender depictions.
 

Amasius

Augur
Joined
Sep 24, 2006
Messages
959
Location
Thanatos
Corvus.E said:
You're arguing that I'm not a journalist and that I didn't write a review. I'm arguing that I'm a social commentator and that I wrote an opinion piece.
[url=http://blog.pjsattic.com/corvus/:3m9n3oh4]Man Bytes Blog[/url] said:
Witcher Review & Game Giveaway

...

My first paid game review went up over at The Escapist today.

...


to celebrate my first preview... [What?]

...


Tagged:game giveaway, game review, the witcher. | 39 Comments »
You should enlighten the innocent readers of your blog. :roll:
 

Hory

Erudite
Joined
Oct 1, 2003
Messages
3,002
Corvus.E said:
When the first 10+ hours of the game portray the protagonist as someone whose only use for women is to bed them, or ignore their come-ons... well, that sends a pretty strong message and I don't think it was inappropriate to mention it.
Yeah, everyone knows women have other "uses", like cleaning the room and cooking the food.
 

Corvus.E

Novice
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
18
Amasius said:
You should enlighten the innocent readers of your blog. :roll:

Touche. Still, most of my readers are pretty darn enlightened in their own right and probably don't need my to adapt their rigid definitions of the term "review" in order to hold a civil conversation and find areas of commonality.
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
5,673
Corvus.E said:
Touche. Still, most of my readers are pretty darn enlightened in their own right and probably don't need my to adapt their rigid definitions of the term "review" in order to hold a civil conversation and find areas of commonality.

Oh zing, you really got us there :roll:

Blaming misinterpretation of written words on the reader instead of the writer is usually the last resort of a really bad author. Let's not go there.
 

Corvus.E

Novice
Joined
Nov 27, 2007
Messages
18
Oh please, I hardly think my gentle dig was any less worthy than some of the trash that's been heaping on my doorstep in this thread.
 

Brother None

inXile Entertainment
Developer
Joined
Jul 11, 2004
Messages
5,673
Corvus.E said:
Oh please, I hardly think my gentle dig was any less worthy than some of the trash that's been heaping on my doorstep in this thread.

Yes...that doesn't really change anything, tho', does it?

I was just sayin', let's not go there.
 

larpingdude14

Scholar
Joined
Nov 15, 2007
Messages
631
Corvus.E said:
When the first 10+ hours of the game portray the protagonist as someone whose only use for women is to bed them, or ignore their come-ons... well, that sends a pretty strong message and I don't think it was inappropriate to mention it.

I never played the game but i think ur pretty dumb and ur friends too. I dont think it sends any message it's just how a fictional character acts in a fictional universe.The only thing it shows that Geralt is a chauvinist pig. A story with perfect and politically correct characters would be boring and predictable. lol noob
 

cazsim83

Novice
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
36
Location
PVAZ
"If there are any girls there, I want to DO them" :Summoner:

Depicting women as (mostly) sex objects in fantasy, especially roleplaying, is nothing new. Have you read any of the books? There are some translated into English. I would recommend reading them? That's exactly what the books are like - so at least it stays true to the books.
 

caliban

Scholar
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
476
Location
Krakow
And I object to racism, terrorism, child abuse and violence. These issues are featured in TW, therefore it is bad. Duh.

This "dramatrically derogatory" depiction of women is mostly an obvious, tongue-in cheek irony - can't you see it? It has a place in the game, because it is a part of the world. Sapkowski's setting is inspired by legends and folklore, in which ribaldry is inherent. The books are full of rather dark and sarcastic social commentaries and quite ironic/self-ironic. There is also a lot of sex - portrayed either ironically, like in the game, or more seriously - as a tool used to exert control over othre people. I could go on and on about the books and the world portrayed in them, as well as compare it with its game adaptation, but that's not the point.

Point is - you should judge wether the setting is coherent and makes sense, and if the implementation of certain... features... makes sense design-wise. I'll give you an example - if you were to review a noir story about a hard-boiled detective, or better yet, a James Bond novel, would you go on about how sexist it is, and lower its rating for it - knowing that a certain portrayal of sex is a part of the genre?

It has nothing to do with your OWN morality.

Also, as the game goes on, the main character gets the choice to side with a strongly racist organisation and help in what effectively is a racial cleansing. He may also involve himself in terrorist activity. You don't consider it inappropriate, do you? If so, why can't you grasp the idea that the makers of the game do not endorse objectifying women and put sex in the game for reasons more important that just to show some boobs?

EDIT:

Also, apart from the fact that you didn't see enough of the game to fully review it, and the fact that some of the paragraphs are irrelevant now, because the game has been patched soon after release (it now seems MUCH more bug-free than, say, NWN2, despite all the patches...), I see a certain... lack of balance in your review. It is as if you started writing it (or even playing it) with a "this game sucks" conclusion in mind. You describe its flaws at lenght, yet only *hint* at its strong points, which usually looks like "blahblabla is quite good, BUT..." followed with an entire paragraph of describing how bad something is.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Brother None said:
PS: I finally changed my avatar because you stubbornly refuse to, Kingston. I HOPE YOU'RE HAPPY! :cry:

Does that mean you're obliged to do good until Kingston dies?

Edit:

*Gasp*

Either larpingdude14started to make sense or I've lost my mind!
What's worse - he makes sense using totally retarded language.
Woes!
:shock:
 

WhiskeyWolf

RPG Codex Polish Car Thief
Staff Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2007
Messages
14,800
larpingdude14 said:
Corvus.E said:
When the first 10+ hours of the game portray the protagonist as someone whose only use for women is to bed them, or ignore their come-ons... well, that sends a pretty strong message and I don't think it was inappropriate to mention it.

I never played the game but i think ur pretty dumb and ur friends too. I dont think it sends any message it's just how a fictional character acts in a fictional universe.The only thing it shows that Geralt is a chauvinist pig. A story with perfect and politically correct characters would be boring and predictable. lol noob

Corvus.E, be so kind and ignore this guy - he's an actor who plays the role of an "Idiot" on this forum - and I got to say he's doing a good job.
 
Joined
Nov 23, 2006
Messages
3,608
caliban said:
I see a certain... lack of balance in your review.
I felt a great disturbance in the karmic currents of the internets, as if millions of fanboys suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
 

Nael

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Messages
11,384
Location
Indy
Corvus.E said:
Nael said:
I've always felt that people with objections to sexuality in a game are just jealous of the guy in the game gettin laid. That's just human nature, and it's nothing to be ashamed of Corvus. :lol:

Yeah, you're a funny guy Nael.

My sources say "No", but thanks for noticing :?
 

Spec

Novice
Joined
Nov 16, 2007
Messages
43
Am I the only one who finds basing a review on which themes the reviewer finds 'comfortable' and 'paletable' appropriate for a site called 'The Escapist'? Would an escapist actually enjoy The Witcher? It's not exactly the traditional high fantasy setting where the player can forget about all of the dirty details of life.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Spec said:
Am I the only one who finds basing a review on which themes the reviewer finds 'comfortable' and 'paletable' appropriate for a site called 'The Escapist'? Would an escapist actually enjoy The Witcher? It's not exactly the traditional high fantasy setting where the player can forget about all of the dirty details of life.

*Spec critically hits 'The Escapist' for 90HP with accurate and witty remark*
 

Balor

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
5,186
Location
Russia
Spec said:
Am I the only one who finds basing a review on which themes the reviewer finds 'comfortable' and 'paletable' appropriate for a site called 'The Escapist'? Would an escapist actually enjoy The Witcher? It's not exactly the traditional high fantasy setting where the player can forget about all of the dirty details of life.

One of 'teh bestest' first post EVAR.
Congrats, Spec, and welcome.
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Balor said:
Spec said:
Am I the only one who finds basing a review on which themes the reviewer finds 'comfortable' and 'paletable' appropriate for a site called 'The Escapist'? Would an escapist actually enjoy The Witcher? It's not exactly the traditional high fantasy setting where the player can forget about all of the dirty details of life.

One of 'teh bestest' first post EVAR.
Congrats, Spec, and welcome.
Indeed, welcome.
 

Crolug

Liturgist
Joined
Nov 11, 2007
Messages
104
Location
Panamá
caliban said:
And I object to racism, terrorism, child abuse and violence. These issues are featured in TW, therefore it is bad. Duh.

You've said it Caliban...

Look Corvus, have you EVER wondered WHY the game is labeled M? Do you really think it was labeled that way only because there are titties, cursing and blood all over the walls? Shit man, you can have it in almost every Hollywood entertainment production rated T.

The world presented in game is just too much for you to grasp, so there's a possibility you're not mature enough for it. Or, let me be politically correct on this one, you're mature in other way, that excludes your understanding of topics told in The Witcher. And that's fine, as we sometimes say in Poland, one prefers playing violin, other when his feet smell bad, but please stop so eagerly defend yourself from every finger pointed at you because you won't win a battle here.

I suggest you just install the damn game again, patch it, finish it and ask yourself WHY Geralt is objectifying women in the first place. As for now stop waving hatred for sexism before our noses because we're starting to be pissed off. Fuck yeah, I hate sexism too man, and you probably can't imagine how many male friends I lost due to my fights with them around their attitude towards women, but this is RL. In The Witcher's world it's like RL square for a reason. But, like I said, rated M for mature...
 

DraQ

Arcane
Joined
Oct 24, 2007
Messages
32,828
Location
Chrząszczyżewoszyce, powiat Łękołody
Agreed. Sexism in real life is not good, same with racism, violence, diseases, death, starvation. But these elements are intergral parts of the real life and those same elements help build a believeable and interesting gameworld. This is where most bmodern "RPGs" fail and this is where TW is different.

Does anyone is really braindamaged enough to really want their RPGs to be HEAVAN simulators?
 

Herbert West

Arbiter
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
1,293
DraQ said:
Agreed. Sexism in real life is not good, same with racism, violence, diseases, death, starvation. But these elements are intergral parts of the real life and those same elements help build a believeable and interesting gameworld

What elements? I just close my eyes. If you can't see it then it doesn't exist. It's simple, really :cool:

edit: Well, it's another thing if I'm the object of violence. When someone bludgeons my face closing my eyes doesn't really help. My logic fails me, OH NO!
 

caliban

Scholar
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
476
Location
Krakow
When someone bludgeons my face closing my eyes doesn't really help. My logic fails me, OH NO!

That's why we invented Internet. I thought everyone knew this. Sheesh.
 

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