Storyfags Recommendation

[Fens]

This thing is amusing (get it while you can, it won't be free much longer).

nice one... also: great ending 'slides'

 

[MicoSelva]

Nothing new to add on the RPG front (except maybe a couple of old JRPGs like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI; and Shadowrun Returns on the PC front), but many adventure games have great stories. The Longest Journey (and Dreamfall by extension) for example, or Gabriel Knight series. Psychonauts also tickled all my storyfaggy membranes, despite being an action platformer.

I am playing Primordia right now, and while I am not very far into the story, it is pretty cool so far, along with great characters and setting.

 

[DeepOcean]

Any game written by Jane Jensen(Gabriel Kight series, Kings Quest 6 and even Grey Matter if you are generous with popamole adventure games). The Quest for Glory games while not having strong stories, they have awesome characters, dialogs and small stories. Broken Sword is interesting too if you aren't sick of Dan Brown style storylines. Portal 2 is interesting too storyfag wise.

 

[Name]

Second Jane Jensen involved AVG games. Does Cognition count too?
Tex Murphy games have this unique future noir setting.

For active studios:
AVGs published by Wadjet Eye Games (Blackwell Legacy, Resonance, Primordia, Gemini Rue etc) are all heavy story side too compare to much of the rest of gerne.
The Book of Unwritten Tales by King Art has some great subversion and parody of fantasy convention.
For Daedalic Entertainment games I think most are ok, but as far as story goes somehow I like Chains of Satinov most.

Other less well known AVG games that may not be quite bad as story goes including Culpa Innata(which has a incomplete ending), Cat Lady(a unique theme with some out-of-place 'artistic' elements).

What's next, popamole ACT games and corridor Shooter that has good story?

 

[Akratus]

I don't know about you guys, but besides a few moments, I thought Mass Effect 1 was okay story-wise.

 

[Tommy Wiseau]

One the setting: I don't really see how it's all that immature, unless you find any fantastic setting necessarily less than mature. Certainly a lot of Planescape does come off a bit like dorm-room rap sessions after Philosophy 101, but aside from a few situations (speaking with O chief among them), the player is free to tear down any pretentiousness or challenge any viewpoint via dialogue. One of my favorite moments is exposing the hypocrisy of the "chief" of the Anarch cell in the Lower Ward. The fact you could actually make cogent objections to ideologies rather than the typical "U R BAD!" response most RPGs permit was really something.

Thanks for the effort response; I think you nailed the nature of the immaturity here. The setting, the way people behave, the dialogue, it all reeks of something that young undergraduate students would fall for and enjoy. I would disagree, though, that this is excusable where the player can tear down the nonsense. Whether you can tear apart the nonsense and poke holes in the way characters behave, the bottom line is you're still stuck in that world with those characters, suffering through lame dialogue after lame dialogue. At some point your eyes are going to hurt from all the rolling. As for the poster who wanted specific examples, I have two things to say to that: one, nobody is required to give examples when they enjoy a game and recommend it, and two, I played Torment years ago and thankfully I've managed to forget it for the most part.

Anyway, I understand that we have a lot of young posters here, so the game probably makes sense to them. If you're still in undergrad or high school, or you've given your life to engineering or some manual trade, you probably will appreciate the game more than someone like myself. You guys play rough around here, so I'll leave it at that; if we want to talk about something positive, I still recommend Nethergate for its unique and interesting setting, and a storyline that is (at least initially) engrossing and can be played from two different perspectives.

 

[made]

GO READ A FUCKING BOOK YOU GODDAMN NEWFAG !

So can u recommend some games with good books in them?

 

[meanwhileInPoland]

GO READ A FUCKING BOOK YOU GODDAMN NEWFAG !

So can u recommend some games with good books in them?

morrowind

 

[Coboney]

I'd like to start with thanks to everyone who has replied and I will try to respond here in kind to things throughout the thread - as best I can.

I won't respond to everyone - but thank you to all even if I don't individually respond to your posts.

King of the dragon pass.

This thing is amusing (get it while you can, it won't be free much longer).

Tin Star is indeed very amusing and have burnt some time on that. Haven't tried King of the Dragon Pass but will put that on my list to check out here.

Mask of the Betrayer, if you haven't played it yet.

Some NWN1 modules have very nice stories. I especially recommend Elegia Eternum and Excrucio Eternum.

My issue with Mask of the Betrayer is the NWN 2 Controls. I have a lot of issues adapting to them. Have tried to start several times but it keeps getting at me. Are there any mods or such for it?

As for the NWN1 I might look there and see.

Deus Ex, New Vegas, Morrowind and Twitchers have solid stories. Red Dead Redemption, too, but I don't know if it ever made it to PC. Final Fantasy XII has a good story but really tedious gameplay, I recommend watching an LP and skipping through the boring parts.

I keep meaning to play Deus Ex but until this thread I hadn't really heard much on its story. Normally I hear it talked about in terms of open level shooter stuff. Which when you have awful hand-eye coordination can be a bit of an issue.

I have played the Fallouts (other then 3 - I saw the LP of it and that was MORE then enough to make me want to vomit) though haven't finished 1.

Morrowind never quite got to the end of. Enjoy it a lot though and will probably try at some point. Twitchers are .... fun for what they are - engaging and some choice but arpgs for sure.

Mask of the Betrayer without question.

Adventure games are worth a try. I'm not the best person to recommend but I recently appreciated Sanitarium and Grim Fandango.

I really like Adventure Games as well - just have problems finding some of them and don't know the genre in depth though I typically like them. You'll see more on this throughout.


For those who suggested KotOR 2 I did a play through with the restoration patch not that long ago and really enjoyed it and its very different take on the Star Wars universe.

If we are allowed to go into consoletard territory, Vagrant Story and Tactics Ogre: Let us cling together has decent stories and great atmosphere. Other than that, Mask of the Betrayer and KotOR 2 for sure.

While I won't support consoles in general - I do emulate older ones to play games I missed so will put those down on the ones to try out.

Game of Thrones RPG is very underrated. The gameplay's not the best, but it has a surprisingly good plot and main characters. Especially if you are fan of the TV show or books.

Otherwise:

The Witcher
The Witcher 2
Geneforge 1-5 (especially 4 and 5)
KOTOR 2

On the Game of Thrones RPG I would agree fully there having played it around when it came out. While the gameplay was somewhat annoying at times the writing was pretty solid and most of the voice acting was even done solidly. I was expecting something derivative and a cash-in project but someone forgot to tell the people who were writing that. Though the scripters got the message it felt.

The Geneforge Games I've completed all but 1 and 3. I have issues with 1's interface having first played 2 that makes it feel really clunky - and 3 I felt like I had the choice between a pair of very annoying companions and little tiny boat trips. Normally in my experience games with boat travel as a difference from the rest of the series tend to end up as the scrappy.... maybe because it tends to be a way to hide transition phases or cause they try to 'simulate' water and winds....

CRPG:
-Mask of the Betrayer
-Alpha Protocol
-New Vegas

JRPG:
-Xenogears/Xenosaga
-Tactics Ogre
-Final Fantasy Tactics

That particular space is pretty starved because most RPGs either have a crappy story, or just focus on the characters instead of on them and the story.

Mask and New Vegas I addressed.

Alpha Protocol despite being flawed in gameplay - the whole shooter bits and 'stealth' and such - had one of the most reactive worlds I've ever seen actually realized. It did that in a marvelous way to make it matter and provide options based on it and that helped hold the game together despite its sub-par game play otherwise.

JRPGs - Tactics Ogre and FFT I keep meaning to play and should obviously. Don't really know much about the Xeno saga though I've heard some mixed on whether its good or bad though I can't recall too many specifics.

+1 Anachronox has repetitive JRPG combat, but the unique setting especially the humor is well worth it. (The name Sender Station appears in my mind this morning and now I finally remember where it comes from). Tips: There is a combat speed-up key, slash or something.

+1 Game of Thrones. The gameplay is bearable, but the story is quite good. I'd go off the record and say that it is best since Mask of the Betrayer. I wonder how much comes from the talent of writers, and how much from imitating the source materials and consulting from GRRM.

Some people hate Divinity II Dragon Knight Saga for its story, but I actually think they are decent and a bit original, especially you start from the first game and know some elements of that universe. The game is among the betters of popamole RPG.

Risen 2 may be a decline of Risen/Gothic line, but it's playable, and its pirate setting is actually unique apart from your typical fantasy RPGs.

Some people think Inquisitor has a good story. I think it's named Best Story by Gamebanshee last year. I can't finish the game due to the poor gameplay.

King of Dragon Pass is not a proper RPG, but its writing and very unique setting is worth a play. Just saying that reading the in-game reading materials are essential part of the gameplay. Or understanding the point of the whole game.

Quest for Glory series are considered to be RPGs. The entire series actually form a pretty good storyline that doesn't end in a disaster installment.They are especially sweet if you are also an point&click adventure lover.

System Shock 2 is pretty heavy on RPG side. The story is also good for what it is, considering the general writing emphasis of suvival horror games.

Ultima Worlds Martian Dreams has a very interesting and unique premise. Shame the game keeps locking down and corrupting the saves when I played it last year GOG released it for free.

The Ur-Quan Masters is more like an open-world ACT than a RPG, but the writing is truly hilarious.

Any games of Obsidian have an above average story, and frankly most of them are worth a play solely because of that instead of gameplay or something.
The Witcher series are the best popamole RPG in this age imho.
And truth be told, the first Mass Effect is actually quite good in the writing department.

I'm a huge storyfag with bad taste.

I'll forgive your taste Name and a lot of comments here.

Anachronox is one I've heard and I'll put down on my list since it seems to be repeating here. I think I might have started it once and got lost in the combat stuff. But ya the setting is pretty unique.

I actually liked the DKS story and thought its issues were more on the gameplay side at times such as the giant bloody citadels or the dragon flight at the end of Flames of Vengence. I can see disliking it more if you're talking just part 1 as it felt really cut off there to end but with FoV added in it really holds together well in my opinion.

Risen 2 I mostly beat. Didn't think much of it - thought that compared to the earlier Gothics its story was weaker (excluding 3 which was.... almost an MMO in single player it felt like ) and I felt it was worst in story then the original Risen. I didn't like it and its one of those few games I had high expectations for.

Inquisitor I gave a shot - HATED the gameplay. Absolutely dreadful and the writing was done by an amaturre who hasn't learnt that brevity is the soul of wit - something I need to work on embracing as well.

King of Dragon Pass appears to be a TBS one which if with good writing and setting could be nice. Good TBS' are difficult to find far too often and they fit more with what I enjoy.

Quest for Glory is one I should try. I enjoy adventure games and it sounds like these would be up my alley.

System Shock 2 I played some of but got lost from reading a bit later and shooters tend to have issues.

On Obsidian I would agree that their writing is above average as are their stories aside from Dungeon Siege 3 where ironically their weaker suits of playtesting and polish were addressed at the expense of everything I like about their games. Most of them are unpolished but well written and conceived.

Mass Effect 1 is decent enough - by far the best of the three. And yes I admit to having made it through the ME series.

GO READ A FUCKING BOOK YOU GODDAMN NEWFAG !


Now we've got this out of the way, let me second some games already mentioned and add some new ones :

Deus Ex (My top choice when it comes to story, along with PST)
Mask of the Betrayer (Don't play the OC)
Betrayal at Krondor (Superb writing. Neal Hallford manages to do a better job than Feist)
Anachronox (Cool story with awesome humor)
Bloodnet (excellent writing, excellent setting)
Witcher 1&2 (They both have good writing and an interesting setting, it's what elevates them above mediocrity)
KOTOR II (Some things bug me with its story, but there is so much good writing in there and such a delightful Ravel incarnation, that I can't help but recommend it)


You don't mention Fallout 1&2. They both have great storytelling, especially FO1. It's not so much the main plot itself, but the superbly crafted Post Apocalyptic world. The writing is spot-on and brilliant. You don't always have to go for an intricate main plot with OMFG twists to have a great story. Fallout proves that.

The QFG games are fantastic, but they're not so much about the story, they're more about the enjoyment you get out from the gameplay in full. You'll have to get to QFG IV to find a game more focused on story, and yes it's a very good story.

Some jRPGs may have enjoyable stories, but the delivery is usually lacking and marred with several standard Japanese crap. The only ones I can really recommend are the Shin Megami Tensei games and Vagrant Story, though in these cases the story takes the backseat to the dominating dungeon crawling.




Not sure what to recommend... your tastes are a tad off, really. Torment is a pretty dreadful game, but at any rate you should try out Nethergate.
sup drog ?

I read a lot - just sometimes need something else!!!

Betrayal I'll try at some point. It doesn't surprise me that someone did a better job then Feist who is an averagish writer.

Haven't heard of Bloodnet before but I'll look up.

Fallouts I did play though I keep starting Fallout 1 before I go off to do something else so not getting very far.

The SMT games that I have played I have enjoyed.

Also I'm staying out of the Torment debate aside from this simple comment: I believe Torment is one of the best games out there. Its combat is poor yes, but gameplay is more then combat. Exploration, C&C, various systems that influence things are very well executed.

Preferably a good book, not some Salvatore shit. Unless you're 13, in which case knock yourself out.

I Have No Mouth And Must Scream, while being an adventure game, is excellent story-wise. If you have read the short story, the game expands it quite a bit and was actually written in collaboration with Harlan Ellison.

A good book - yeah. I do a lot of that but sometimes a change of medium is nice! And Salvatore is thoroughly mediocre. Being a PnP player I did eventually buy some of his books to see what all the fuss was about and came away with the opinion that he's a mediocre writer and very over hyped.

I'll put that down on the list though for I Have No Mouth and Must Scream.

Nothing new to add on the RPG front (except maybe a couple of old JRPGs like Chrono Trigger and Final Fantasy VI; and Shadowrun Returns on the PC front), but many adventure games have great stories. The Longest Journey (and Dreamfall by extension) for example, or Gabriel Knight series. Psychonauts also tickled all my storyfaggy membranes, despite being an action platformer.

I am playing Primordia right now, and while I am not very far into the story, it is pretty cool so far, along with great characters and setting.

I would say Shadowrun Returns as far as story goes is really meh - especially the second half. On the other hand the setting is well realized and the writing solid.

Longest Journey I really enjoyed a while back but Dreamfall in my opinion was a fall back in general. And everything I've seen about the next one they are doing is going to be even worst... I mean lets take everything people hated about that and add in social media!

Primordia I really enjoyed.



Well that took a bit. Thanks again everyone and hope to see more thoughts

 

[Night Goat]

I keep meaning to play Deus Ex but until this thread I hadn't really heard much on its story. Normally I hear it talked about in terms of open level shooter stuff. Which when you have awful hand-eye coordination can be a bit of an issue.

If you have to you can turn down the difficulty, just don't tell the Codex. Deus Ex also gets easier over time, as your skills improve and you get some overpowered abilities. Level 4 regeneration is basically god mode IIRC.

 

[Coboney]

I keep meaning to play Deus Ex but until this thread I hadn't really heard much on its story. Normally I hear it talked about in terms of open level shooter stuff. Which when you have awful hand-eye coordination can be a bit of an issue.

If you have to you can turn down the difficulty, just don't tell the Codex. Deus Ex also gets easier over time, as your skills improve and you get some overpowered abilities. Level 4 regeneration is basically god mode IIRC.

I never do tell them when I do.....

Wait.... I didn't say that!

I always play everything on super duper insanity mode! With Single Deaths on! Of course!

 

[Morality Games]

Torment is a pretty dreadful game

Heresy!

Hah, I'm not trying to get anyone too upset about it. An honest review of Torment has to acknowledge that the game is thoroughly mediocre, from it's clunky UI and gameplay to its immature plotline and setting. Torment seems to be written by melodramatic children who tried to achieve something far beyond their ability and experience.

It wasn't the worst game I've ever played, and if they do finish a remake I will at least watch a youtube video of it, but that's about as far as I can go. Playing the game is like watching a fourteen year old try to wear an ill-fitting suit. I left my teenage years far behind me and have no real desire to go back, let the game die already.

Fiction is all smoke and mirrors. Great stories come across as artificial and boring if their magic fails to captivate you. Even one character or plot development that disagrees with your reading can turn the whole thing to ash.

As an example, I was with The Sword of Truth series until the sixth book starred the protagonist's sister. I was never able to recover my interest in the story after that.

 

[Coboney]

Torment is a pretty dreadful game

Heresy!

Hah, I'm not trying to get anyone too upset about it. An honest review of Torment has to acknowledge that the game is thoroughly mediocre, from it's clunky UI and gameplay to its immature plotline and setting. Torment seems to be written by melodramatic children who tried to achieve something far beyond their ability and experience.

It wasn't the worst game I've ever played, and if they do finish a remake I will at least watch a youtube video of it, but that's about as far as I can go. Playing the game is like watching a fourteen year old try to wear an ill-fitting suit. I left my teenage years far behind me and have no real desire to go back, let the game die already.

Fiction is all smoke and mirrors. Great stories come across as artificial and boring if their magic fails to captivate you. Even one character or plot development that disagrees with your reading can turn the whole thing to ash.

As an example, I was with The Sword of Truth series until the sixth book starred the protagonist's sister. I was never able to recover my interest in the story after that.

I would agree about fiction being somewhat smoke and mirrors - or at least plots being that. There are a limited number of style of stories and when you boil a plot down to its essential elements there are relatively few. What makes a story alive and special is its characters and in fantasy/science fiction its world. These are the spots where the author isn't constrained too much aside from their imagination. Characters have a lot of space to be who they will and react to the details of the events which is why they matter. And worlds are a drier part which is why even the best crafted ones if without life from characters will be typically viewed as a wasted world due to its characters - -- though this is more on books then games. Games are a different medium because of the interactivity and there are a lot of ways to go with story telling there and I believe that the medium is very young and immature on the whole that way - trying too much to ape other mediums instead of embracing its own strengths.

Also I'd say Sword of truth was passable-solid book one and started declining from there. Book 4 was the first one I'd label as actively bad and 6 was such that I spent the book laughing really at how ridiculous it was.

 

[Coriolanus]

Since people aren't talking just about RPGs here, 999 (for Nintendo DS) was pretty decent - in a good pulpy novel way (sort of Adventure Game / Visual Novel mix). A lot of branching, 6 different endings, and it's highly likely you'll end up horribly murdered on your first few tries...

 

[Morality Games]

Since people aren't talking just about RPGs here, 999 (for Nintendo DS) was pretty decent - in a good pulpy novel way (sort of Adventure Game / Visual Novel mix). A lot of branching, 6 different endings, and it's highly likely you'll end up horribly murdered on your first few tries...

Well, if you're going that way, Shadows of Destiny is the lord and master of that niche hybrid genre. And it has the advantage of being on PC.

I would agree about fiction being somewhat smoke and mirrors - or at least plots being that. There are a limited number of style of stories and when you boil a plot down to its essential elements there are relatively few. What makes a story alive and special is its characters and in fantasy/science fiction its world. These are the spots where the author isn't constrained too much aside from their imagination. Characters have a lot of space to be who they will and react to the details of the events which is why they matter. And worlds are a drier part which is why even the best crafted ones if without life from characters will be typically viewed as a wasted world due to its characters - -- though this is more on books then games. Games are a different medium because of the interactivity and there are a lot of ways to go with story telling there and I believe that the medium is very young and immature on the whole that way - trying too much to ape other mediums instead of embracing its own strengths.

Also I'd say Sword of truth was passable-solid book one and started declining from there. Book 4 was the first one I'd label as actively bad and 6 was such that I spent the book laughing really at how ridiculous it was.

In some ways, although to suggest Planescape: Torment didn't embrace strengths specific to games would be a great discredit. It is still famously remembered as the first RPG where being evil seemed like a meaningful and appropriate choice, and one that tended to reward rather than punish the player.

 

[Coboney]

I would agree about fiction being somewhat smoke and mirrors - or at least plots being that. There are a limited number of style of stories and when you boil a plot down to its essential elements there are relatively few. What makes a story alive and special is its characters and in fantasy/science fiction its world. These are the spots where the author isn't constrained too much aside from their imagination. Characters have a lot of space to be who they will and react to the details of the events which is why they matter. And worlds are a drier part which is why even the best crafted ones if without life from characters will be typically viewed as a wasted world due to its characters - -- though this is more on books then games. Games are a different medium because of the interactivity and there are a lot of ways to go with story telling there and I believe that the medium is very young and immature on the whole that way - trying too much to ape other mediums instead of embracing its own strengths.

Also I'd say Sword of truth was passable-solid book one and started declining from there. Book 4 was the first one I'd label as actively bad and 6 was such that I spent the book laughing really at how ridiculous it was.

In some ways, although to suggest Planescape: Torment didn't embrace strengths specific to games would be a great discredit. It is still famously remembered as the first RPG where being evil seemed like a meaningful and appropriate choice, and one that tended to reward rather than punish the player.

Oh definetely Planescape: Torment is remembered because it did embrace those strengths I believe. It set up a world and a character who while he had background information was enough of a blank slate to let you take over and shape in a sensible manner the character. It let it happen in an open manner that met consequences that vibrated throughout the story and relied on detailing a rich world. Its embracing of gamism in some points like resurrection played brilliantly into this helping give the character an ability that helped the game continue, explain the character without being too long about it and show some of the world. By making evil more then a just evil for money or for the lols and setting it up with choices and consequences they did it well.

I could go on for a while about Planescape: Torment and its story structure though its been a bit since I played it given that I enjoy writing and for its medium is one of the best. The sad part is that it didn't become a codifier for the medium instead reflected upon, mentioned and discussed but rarely have people attempted to really follow it instead quoting technology or different reasons not to.[/quote]

 

[Helton]

In a weird way, Alpha Centauri has an amazing story. You get blurbs of text from leading minds whenever you research a tech or build a base improvement or secret project. They do a fantastic job of developing an interesting world and characters. The narrative elements are very sparse, and yet I am completely enthralled when I play.

 

[Johannes]

Betrayal At Krondor
Geneforge series
Nethergate
Albion
Adventure games



GTAV

 

[Dayyālu]

I still recommend Nethergate for its unique and interesting setting, and a storyline that is (at least initially) engrossing and can be played from two different perspectives.

I loooove falling to Trolls. And so, I'll take the bait, King of Sparta.
You are right. If compared to anything "serious", like the Great Books of the Human Race, Torment is mediocre. That said, we're talking about a piece of highly disposable entertainment: for the incredibly low standards of vydia gamez, Torment is good for what it is. Nice and original setting, good-to-average writing. And it avoids the trap of becoming a Visual Novel with some gameplay trappings, like Mass Effect. If you want something good for your soul and mind, you do NOT play games. If you want to relax and waste time in something amusing, you do. Childish and juvenile? Most fiction is. Most philosophy is, and you certainly know that.

Simple minds, simple pleasures, amrite?

I'm quite more curious about the recommendation of Nethergate. Vogel is a mediocre writer, and Nethergate is playable mostly for its premise. It's infested with historical/mythological errors and various bad/outated historical data (if I remember right, most of his sources were childrens' books) and most importantly, the characters in Nethergate DO NOT act or "think" in any way like proper Romans or "Celts". Of course you can easily notice that, if you have the kind of culture you vaunt against the "vile mechanics". So, why Nethergate, as a piece of disposable entertaiment, is superior to Torment?

Games with good stories? I don't know. I like the story of Homeworld, but that's probably more for what I read into it that for any actual value, as Homeworld 2 with his childish and forced plot proved.

 

[tuluse]

King of the dragon pass.

This thing is amusing (get it while you can, it won't be free much longer).

This is really excellent

 

[Agesilaus]

Okay, I was going to step out of the discussion altogether, but because you addressed me as the King of Sparta...

I still recommend Nethergate for its unique and interesting setting, and a storyline that is (at least initially) engrossing and can be played from two different perspectives.

I loooove falling to Trolls. And so, I'll take the bait, King of Sparta.
You are right. If compared to anything "serious", like the Great Books of the Human Race, Torment is mediocre. That said, we're talking about a piece of highly disposable entertainment: for the incredibly low standards of vydia gamez, Torment is good for what it is. Nice and original setting, good-to-average writing. And it avoids the trap of becoming a Visual Novel with some gameplay trappings, like Mass Effect. If you want something good for your soul and mind, you do NOT play games. If you want to relax and waste time in something amusing, you do. Childish and juvenile? Most fiction is. Most philosophy is, and you certainly know that.

I don't have incredibly low standards, and I disagree that games cannot be good for your soul and mind. The problem with Torment is that it is of a low standard, and it contains a TONNE of mediocre content. Anyway, we won't get very far with me just disagreeing with everything you're saying, but so be it; I didn't find the setting nice and original, I rather found it to be an unbelievable and grubby affair not worth my time. I recall the writing style being average at best, but with so much boring, unbelievable, and pointless content that I didn't want to suffer through it anymore. The weak gameplay mechanics strongly compounded this problem; if Torment was in fact a visual novel it would be better than it is now (but I still wouldn't play it).

I'm quite more curious about the recommendation of Nethergate. Vogel is a mediocre writer, and Nethergate is playable mostly for its premise. It's infested with historical/mythological errors and various bad/outated historical data (if I remember right, most of his sources were childrens' books) and most importantly, the characters in Nethergate DO NOT act or "think" in any way like proper Romans or "Celts". Of course you can easily notice that, if you have the kind of culture you vaunt against the "vile mechanics". So, why Nethergate, as a piece of disposable entertaiment, is superior to Torment?

Do you call Xenophon a mediocre writer? I don't think Vogel is a great wordsmith, but I don't have any strong feelings against his writing style. You make a good point when you say that Nethergate is playable for its premise, because that's the key to this thread; it's a "storyfag" thread, and nethergate has a really unique setting and plotline that draws the player in (at least for the first few hours). However, Nethergate is also playable because of its interface, gameplay mechanics, and combat scenarios. I will admit right now that I haven't finished Nethergate; I have only played as the Romans, and I was probably 2 or 3 hours in (I cleared out that initial mountain cave and then went exploring for an hour on top of that). I might reinstall it tomorrow and give it another go, time permitting (drat work).

Your criticisms are good, but only to a limited extent. The Romans and Celts behavior and setup is off, but that is in large part because of the setting itself. This is an alternate history where a dark outpost of the Empire has become its own little world, infested with monsters and savages that have become a significant part of the population and civilization. By necessity everything is different to some extent, and given the game engine and ability of the author it has been pulled off fairly well. I have learned to live with historical/mythological inaccuracies, unfortunately, but in Nethergate's defence I would argue that other games are far, far worse, and do not even pretend to be true to the past.

Nethergate is superior to Torment in a number of ways. The interface is better, the gameplay mechanics are better, the setting, story, and writing are all better, and most importantly the author did what needed to be done and carried on without burdening the player with pointless nonsense. Fifty million thumbs up for Nethergate, and throw a Geneforge recommendation on there, too, because Vogel knows his limitations, knows his style, and he gets things done when it comes to games.

 

[Coriolanus]

 

[Infinitron]

He might not be a troll - Spiderweb fanboys can get pretty crazy, I hear. Remember, Vogel lived off these guys' money for over a decade.

...nah, probably a troll.

Edward_R_Murrow Can you explain to me your belief in some sort of congenitally and uniquely "bad BI/Obsidian encounter design"? Because to me, that basically sounds like you're saying "every single RPG battle since BG2's wizard duels has disappointed me, and I've also only played Obsidian RPGs since then, so I'll assign a unique blame to Obsidian for this".

 

[hoverdog]

too generous;

 

[Lonely Vazdru]

I recall the writing style being average at best, but with so much boring, unbelievable, and pointless content that I didn't want to suffer through it anymore.

That is why you fail. The maze, remember your failure at the maze.