RPGs then vs RPGs now

[LB_wannabe]

Newfag here,

I need to know the arcane secrets of posting pictures in this toxic forum for this charming picture: https://imgur.com/a/i3zeRDR

 

[Zed Duke of Banville]

Newfag here,

I need to know the arcane secrets of posting pictures in this toxic forum for this charming picture: https://imgur.com/a/i3zeRDR

First, you need the url of an image, rather than a web-page with an image (i.e. right-click on the image, then select "view image" or "copy image location" to obtain https://i.imgur.com/Cc7h2XH.png).

Second, hit the image button and paste in the image's url, or paste in the image's url and surround it by [ img ] [ /img ] tags without spaces.

 

[Lurker47]

Then again that might be intended, although I would have prefered if they added a less one-dimensional villain. As I said, Caesar talks too much and none of it makes much sense.

Are you seriously saying the Legion is one-dimensional when compared to 2's Enclave and 1's Master.

s honest as Trumpists bringing up Hillary's E-Mail server when defending their traitor president. ^^

...

 

[Dodo1610]

Then again that might be intended, although I would have prefered if they added a less one-dimensional villain. As I said, Caesar talks too much and none of it makes much sense.

Are you seriously saying the Legion is one-dimensional when compared to 2's Enclave and 1's Master.

s honest as Trumpists bringing up Hillary's E-Mail server when defending their traitor president. ^^

...

What was so complex about the Enclave in Fallout 2? They were just ordinary fascist that literally kill everyone who opposes them? The Legion were great villains, they oppose everything the player usually believes in and yet after all the shit you have seen in the Wasteland, you can still understand them, which is scary.

 

[Awakened_Yeti]

 

[Bigg Boss]

Then...

---

Now...

 

[Shaewaroz]

Ok ... I don't get it. What's so bad about that particular example?

Nothing in particular, except its wall-of-text nature. There are much worse examples in Pillars of Eternity. That's the problem though, while AAA games are getting dumbed down the supposed saviors of the genre all confuse endless blocks of text and run-on sentences with good writing.

This kind of walls of descriptive flavor text without any significance to the actual gameplay or story were incredibly infuriating in POE. One of the reasons I couldn't stomach the game for longer than 5-10 hours despite paying 180 € to back it on KS.

 

[Cael]

Why do people who criticize the Legion always have to *ask* about it? It's nowhere near the Institute's level of "lol we ain't telling you shit" Caesar's reforms into a republic can be built upon a strong cultural foundation- the current Legion as described by Avellone is a "completely military organization". Every citizen in Legion territories is not a part of the Legion, they just live under them. Meaning to say, the entire point of the Legion is to expand and build a strongly unified culture.

Caesar's economic views are vague but seeing it as a strictly communist vs. capitalism argument is completely retarded. It's fair to assume a large portion of the Legion that use a barter system are only because they're in lower social standings (direct slaves of the Legion).

Notice how he says the NCR has "lost virtue"- as in he believed it had it before. As far as I can remember, there is not a single line of dialogue that implies that Caesar believes a republic is inherently bad; it's all in reference to the NCR. Same thing with individuality, he says that the NCR is *purely* built upon self interest and no care for the common good. The Legion is the exact opposite. He'll use the Mojave to build an empire and then yada-yada-yada synthesis.

Another thing, Caesar mentions that the NCR didn't initially function as a republic due to its long-term presidencies and this lead to a political disconnect; it "devolved" into a republic. Caesar plans the transition from an authoritarian rule to a less strict republic from the start and it would ideally, happen more naturally and smoothly. This republic would still be over what is essentially a cult built upon the common good.


How is this so hard to understand.

It isn't. It is just trying to get the player to buy into the idea that a totalitarian twat would willingly give up power after guiding manking to a better future is about as believable as greenies and SJWs saying that they are actually nice, tolerant people but are forced to be totalitarians for YOUR own good.

 

[Master]

Master felt like he was a force of his own. While Caesar was like a videogame character, writen by some modern videogame writer. I listen to his exposition and all im thinking is "yeah yeah... i wonder who wrote this shit".

 

[Edija]

Master felt like he was a force of his own. While Caesar was like a videogame character, writen by some modern videogame writer. I listen to his exposition and all im thinking is "yeah yeah... i wonder who wrote this shit".

You're just getting old.

 

[Lurker47]

. It is just trying to get the player to buy into the idea that a totalitarian twat would willingly give up power after guiding manking to a better future is about as believable as greenies and SJWs saying that they are actually nice, tolerant people but are forced to be totalitarians for YOUR own good.

It's likely that Caesar would remain an emperor for the rest of his life-time to keep his status symbol (like Tandi to the NCR) but unlike the NCR, his rule has a religious undertone so his values would (according to him) survive a long but consistent transition.

Master felt like he was a force of his own. While Caesar was like a videogame character, writen by some modern videogame writer. I listen to his exposition and all im thinking is "yeah yeah... i wonder who wrote this shit".

Sounds like a personal problem.

 

[Egosphere]

Caesar makes more sense if you think of his faction as a khanate like the Golden Horde and him as the khan. It's an amalgamation of various tribes, that are intermixed to stamp out any innate inter-tribal heterogeneity, under one supreme ruler; high militarization and lack of division between civil and military administration; rapid expansion west in search of wealth ( ie. New Vegas as the jewel in the proverbial haystack ). His opinions on Rome are formulated from a tiny sliver of history knowledge that survived the war. He draws upon its military glory to bolster his ideology and to mask over his personal issues with the NCR, which he sees as a failed organization that should have died with Tandi. Other roman influences are confined to military know-how and aesthetics.

 

[Lurker47]

roman influences are confined to military know-how and aesthetics.

Aesthetics being the most important. Caesar basically says he used Rome because "it's weird" and the West has a fairly idealized image of Rome. People get mad at the Legion for not being historically accurate when it's fairly obvious that the "Roman basis" is what science is to Scientology. I feel the distortions are more out of utility than ignorance.

 

[Master]

Legion shouldve been just a gang and the NCR too. Small scale gang war wouldve worked better engine wise and story wise and would explain how a postman got any higher ups attention at all.

 

[Raghar]

Just wanted to accumulate as much memes about it in one thread as possible because I constantly fforget where I've stored them them

Great argument in the bottom image.

Funnily he might be completely correct. A random player, or random character from that game would find it too complicated to understand.

 

[Space Satan]

Funnily he might be completely correct. A random player, or random character from that game would find it too complicated to understand.

...and next he wants you to take over and continue his work.

 

[Raghar]

Funnily he might be completely correct. A random player, or random character from that game would find it too complicated to understand.

...and next he wants you to take over and continue his work.

Wow. I never played it because I thought it was too dumb. I was completely right.

Well, it's hard to beat an offer for a new job where you killing people without knowing why, because your precursor didn't explained you a thing. Money, power, and no clue what you are doing. The best job in the world.

 

[Lurker47]

Legion shouldve been just a gang and the NCR too. Small scale gang war wouldve worked better engine wise and story wise and would explain how a postman got any higher ups attention at all.

Fair enough opinion. Only because Fallout has built itself around that kind of thing.

"story-wise"
Eeeeh, it's to be expected that the NCR is super huge and pathetic; its progression is one of the best aspects of New Vegas. A postman getting attention is explained well enough, as circumstantial and contrived it might seem. But that kind of story aspect isn't all that important to Fallout anyhow- it's fine as it is.

 

[Egosphere]

Legion shouldve been just a gang and the NCR too. Small scale gang war wouldve worked better engine wise and story wise and would explain how a postman got any higher ups attention at all.

It was fine the way it was. Post apoc. peoples evolving into larger polities from small, agricultural communities is a natural progression, and the different ideologies they employ in order to rationalize their own conquests is well written and gives the game some of that old-school flavour.

What was the enclave's motivations in 2 anyways? Mainland is irradiated, ergo we're the ubermensch now.

 

[Space Satan]

Caesar's Legion was an advancement because we have F3 to compare it with. Which is even more retarded and idiotic than F4.

 

[Azarkon]

Not hard to understand. Just not believable.

He's not the right fit for the most likely historical theme that an American cult leader would take up, but take a look at the cultural attitudes of rural America and especially the type of people who are hardcore about the various survivalist movements, and you'll find obvious parallels. Yeah, Roman fetish is rare, but many in those movements do believe that modern society is fundamentally corrupt and that a return to the past is inevitable and desirable. In a California context, a Wild West type of fundamentalism is more plausible - think Mad Max but with more drugs - however, I'd expect more ethnic variation, since I don't expect Asian American survivalists to react in the same way as white American survivalists, and I'd expect Mexicans, both American and from Mexico, to play a much bigger role.

 

[Lurker47]

Caesar's Legion was an advancement because we have F3 to compare it with

Don't forget 1 and 2.

 

[Master]

OTOH if they really wanted big scale with armies and war, they shouldve made the player swooped by it like in Good Bad Ugly. and with quests to reflect it.

 

[Lurker47]

OTOH if they really wanted big scale with armies and war, they shouldve made the player swooped by it like in Good Bad Ugly. and with quests to reflect it.

I like the courier idea but this is fine too. It's all ultimately supplementary though.

 

[Space Satan]

NCR had a population of about 1 million on all its territories, Legion is far smaller, with tribe here and there but with total mobilization. Even with one million civilians standing army would be very small, given they'll require border control and stuff, common problem with settled countries vs militarized\nomad nations of old. Crimean Khanate could muster almost all its male population to war while Russia and Poland could barely field some defenses. China could barely hold Mongol raiders etc.