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Druidstone: The Secret of the Menhir Forest - turn-based isometric RPG from Grimrock devs

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,490
Location
Djibouti
How to defeat that damned Yeti tho? I'm quite good at this game. Have perfected every other mission so far. The boss is like a brick wall though.

wut, you mean the ice demon?

he's easy as shit, you just gotta go counter-clockwise from your starting location to pop all the thingamajigs that give him iddqd with your ranged dudes, and then smack him down with whatever

there are even conveniently placed explosive barrels that you can pull or swap to him to make things easier

idk how you could be finding this mishun hard, it was one of the easiest for me in the whole game
 

Mark Richard

Arcane
Joined
Mar 14, 2016
Messages
1,192
How to defeat that damned Yeti tho? I'm quite good at this game. Have perfected every other mission so far. The boss is like a brick wall though.
The ice demon? Equip the scout with wool shirt, equip the wizard with a fire staff, and insert gems to activate the burn ability. Use the wizard to slow the demon in the opening round by casting forcefield or freeze, then begin moving the entire party counterclockwise around the map, taking out the enemies and collecting chests as you go. Use the scout as a rearguard. She'll be able to withstand the demon's ranged attack and shoot the ice crystals to freeze it in place as it gives chase. With the burn damage from the fire staff the monks pose little threat, just stay outside of their limited movement range and unleash a focused fire spell. After completing a lap and destroying all the crystals, the boss should be vulnerable.

If you don't have the items or spells, just follow the general outline of the plan and modify as needed. It should still work out.
 

PsychoFox

Educated
Joined
Mar 27, 2019
Messages
293
Location
(P___q)
Alright Super Codex Bros. I managed to kill the iceboy AND get all the side objectives. Was not pretty. Thank you.
 

KingDoofus

Scholar
Joined
Jul 9, 2015
Messages
109
One thing that may also help - in this level and others - is use of the summons. The flute that summons the three creatures can help distract the Ice Demon and Stirling from his flute can even work in a pinch. They're not great damage (though Stirling can add a little bit and the creatures can randomly get decent spells) but throughout the game they'll be decent at pulling aggro for a turn.
 

Quantomas

Savant
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
260
TL;DR
Druidstone has good production values and offers an interesting combat challenge. It is no RPG and no strategy game, instead Druidstone is at its best if you love a dungeon run that throws challenging surprises at you, and if you manage to proceed without fail like a roguelike. However, if these surprises catch you off guard, replaying a mission feels more like a diminishing grind because the events play out the same on each retry. Playing on hard and trying to complete all objectives on your first attempt is a rewarding experience though.

PRESENTATION

Druidstone does very well to invite the player to a grand adventure. Installation and launch is very smooth. Dispensing with the need for a manual is a plus, the player gets into the game immediately while the tutorial is kept to a minimum but covers everything the player needs to know. Which also says a lot about how good the UI is.

The visuals, art and animations do a good job to immerse the player into a lush and thematically apt fantasy world. The same can be said for the presentation of the game's systems and UI, it is always clear, functional and gives the impression of great care.

The sound effects and the music are well done. The one exception may be the occasional switch to Metroidvania-style music during combat, which may appear jarring for some players, because it changes tone completely.

WRITING

The story of Druidstone is mostly presented as text bubbles during conversations which works well because it draws the player in. What is said by the characters presents the story well. Though it is not your epic D&D style fantasy plot, it provides motivation for the player. The characters feel a bit like metaphors, but that does not diminish their deeds and struggles to do right.

PLAYER AGENCY

In principle the player proceeds through Druidstone's story by fulfilling missions which are relayed through an overland map. You can pick any mission that is available, and as the story proceeds more missions are added.

Between the missions you have the opportunity to upgrade your characters' gear and skills from the experience, gold and gems you acquire on the missions. The loot depends on how good you do on a mission, so the player is incentivized to perform well.

The difficulty is freely adaptable and missions can be replayed to improve the outcome.

CORE GAMEPLAY

The meat of the game is in the missions you perform. Each is a handcrafted map of a location. The maps are divided into tiles and you proceed in typical turn-based fashion by spending movepoints to move and action points to interact with objects and fight opponents.

Though there are no shrouded areas that you have to explore, the game frequently throws surprises at you like new enemies spawning and new mechanics adding to the gameplay. Thus you can't plan your way to victory in advance at the begin of a mission. Druidstone plays much more like a boardgame of a dungeon crawl during which you are subjected to unforeseeable rigors. You have to manage your combat resources smartly and on the higher difficulties make best use of the skills your heroes acquire.

Users' experience with turn-based tactical combat matters a lot here, with many users already reporting that they find the game on NORMAL difficulty already unforgiving.

DESIGN OF THE CHALLENGE

All missions are handcrafted and offer challenging opponents from the get-go. The tactical options available to you are enormous, with your heroes possessing a variety of skills that allow you to tackle challenges in many different ways, from a simple guard mode that spends your last action point to attack the next opponent that moves into range to intricate spells and teleportation, position swapping and similar feats. The list of your skills grows as you progress through the game. In principle the game demands that you use your skills effectively, as the opposition has the upper hand in numbers and strength. Opponents are dumb in the sense that they beeline towards you, but their numbers make the game challenging nevertheless.

All missions are winnable by design, and if you were up only against the opposition present on each map at the beginning, you would breeze through the game. To make the game challenging, Druidstone spawns enemies frequently during your mission, opens hidden passages with more opponents if you pass a trigger, or throws other surprises at you throughout the game.

In principle it makes for a nice, unpredictable experience, like a dungeon run with unpredictable rigors at every turn. It's definitely no strategy game, but a truly challenging dungeon run has its own merits.

But as things are, the surprises the game throws at you can easily make your mission a failure. By design this is only a small setback, because you can replay the mission immediately or come back later with better skills, or gear that will help you succeed. The enemy spawns and surprises the game throws at you are identic each time you play one mission. So you learn what you have to avoid and watch out for. It's like a puzzle that you repeat with an increasing number of hints at your disposal. This sounds nice on the drawing board, but the experience you get from repeating missions feels like a grind that gets weaker each time, because the spice of the mission, the surprises that add challenges, play out the same and thus have lost their appeal. It feels like a grind with diminishing returns, because you merely memorize the mission design. What it lacks is the grand feeling of a predictable strategy game, where you have to assess the challenge, refine your approach, and ultimately can revel in having mastered a challenge by learning to play better. It would be better if repeating a mission would play out differently each time, or if the mission would be challenging without additional surprises. This is Druidstone's biggest design flaw, that the replay of missions feels like a diminishing grind, like a puzzle that gets easier with each try, not because you have learned to play better but simply because you know how it plays out.

Instead Druidstone offers elevation by mastering the challenges that it throws frequently at you, if you are smart enough to win each mission on your first attempt. That is where Druidstone is at its best.

I play Druidstone on hard difficulty and after realizing that mission replays are not desirable, I do my best to complete all mission objectives right away. In principle, if you make smart choices at level-up, preferably to select the skills that offer structural benefits, and choose high quality gear with an eye for the best combat options, your power curve vs the difficulty of the missions is improving to your advantage as the game progresses. You also learn what type of surprises the game throws at you. A third through the game, it feels if you use your limited skills conservatively and proceed with circumspection, you can succeed mostly always right away, though some missions seem not to provide for this playing style without a grind (for example in the mission for the Seldanna flowers, you have to grind through 100+ spawned infectors; doable but not fun).

VERDICT

Druidstone is no RPG (we should stop calling a game an RPG only because you can customize your combat build) and no strategy game, because it is unpredictable in its challenge.

Instead Druidstone is at its best if you love a dungeon run that throws challenging surprises at you, and if you manage to proceed without fail like a roguelike.

MARKETING

Marketing the game as an RPG or a strategy game where each turn counts misses the mark. Technically you draw visitors to your store page that look for a game like Temple of Elemental Evil or D:OS2, or possibly even Into the Breach, only for them to read in the user reviews that this game is no RPG and no strategy game. This means you only sell the game to those prospective buyers who look for an RPG or strategy game AND also happen to like the type of game Druidstone truly is, which is probably just a small fraction of the visitors. People steeped in marketing will tell you, don't confuse your customers. Prospective buyers who feel unsure what they will get, will most likely defer a purchase. It will work much better to market Druidstone to its true core audience, possibly vivid board gamers who would like to try a computer game.

In general the market has become very competitive, with gamers having huge backlogs and increasingly realising that buying a game at release is not the best deal for them. These days a game needs to be outstanding and ideally unique. Druidstone is a unique game and offers a rare treat, but it needs to be marketed to its true audience.

I'd recommend to get Druidstone on the Epic Store asap while the current Epic Store Sale lasts (until June 13). With the Epic sponsorship during the sale (€10 at no cost for the developer), Druidstone could sell for €11 without Ctrl Alt Ninja discounting it, possibly giving Druidstone the exposure it needs.

BUSINESS

In principle Druidstone is a smart product with great potential, if it is leveraged properly. The modular design of the campaign, with missions to choose from the overland map, plus the fairly straightforward way to add lore and deliver the story, in addition to a mission editor, could have an appeal to modders like Neverwinter Nights once did. But it will require a critical mass of interest from the larger community, and possibly devs to use the platform. Recently For the King tried this approach, the platform is good, but the game never gained widespread traction.

FUTURE

My recommendation is to fix Druidstone's biggest flaw, the way the replay of missions is handled. There are various ways to do it.

The most straightforward fix would be to provide alternative events to make the missions play out differently each time. But it would make sense to address this together with an improvement of the game balance and difficulty by addressing enemy behaviour and event flow. There are suitable methods available that go beyond crafting and balancing each mission manually, without requiring random generation, but an intelligent hybrid approach could make for a truly outstanding game that offers excellent dungeon-run-like qualities.

Maybe a modder with very good AI skills may pick this up, but that would exceed what modders usually do. However, a licensing deal could work. Maybe more developers could see the potential that Druidstone has, as a very good template or tool to produce their own stories with challenging TBS combat.
 
Last edited:

Infinitron

I post news
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Messages
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/06/05/druidstone-the-secret-of-the-menhir-forest-review/

Wot I Think - Druidstone: The Secret of the Menhir Forest
Once more, Into the Breach, with feeling


90



I can go one of two ways with turn-based tactics games. Give me something like XCOM, where you’re thrown situations full of random variables and asked to make the best of them with inadequate resources, and I’ll go at it like John Henry, digging away in a doomed attempt to beat the machine. Give me something like Into The Breach, however, where there’s less element of chance and victory is achieved via careful planning and… well, I’ll love it. Until I realise I’m being tricked into enjoying chess, that is, at which point I’ll drop it like someone who’s found an eyelid in their burger.

That’s not a slam on Into The Breach. It’s a masterpiece of design, and my bouncing off it is more to do with my shortcomings than the game’s. My brain just happens to be fond of reactive improvisation and estimating risk, rather than methodical planning based on known quantities. Maybe you’re wired the other way. Regardless, I’m happy to say that Druidstone: the Secret of the Menhir Forest (the latest from the team behind Legend of Grimrock) does a bang-up job of catering to both mentalities.



Druidstone is a turn-based fantasy tactics game, played on an isometric grid, across thirty-five carefully designed levels. You play as a party of three (four, later in the game), who can move and attack in any order you like during a single team turn, and who each have a roster of special abilities with finite uses per mission. There are many baddies (Skeletons! Slugs! Beastie Boys!), as well as an impressive array of different mission types and an assortment of interactive map furniture such as door-opening pressure pads, fire-shooting traps, and explodey barrels.

Completing missions wins gold and XP to build up character stats and buy weapons, while achieving more difficult optional objectives wins you extra gems, which you can use to improve party members’ powerful special abilities. You can complete missions as many times as you like in order to grind XP (you get less each time, mind), but you’ll only be able to bag the gem rewards for optional objectives once per mission. This will be important in a minute.



You see, when I was just a few levels into Druidstone, I was feeling a bit out of joint with it. It was exquisitely designed and doubtlessly good, but I had the increasing feeling that I was solving puzzles rather than improvising my way through an RNG shitshow; that each level had a single ‘solution’, which I was destined to discover through repetitive trial and error. Move the big man here, burn the whirlwind ability on those skeletons, then have the archer move there to take the last HP off the one still standing, and to be in range of the dogmen who I know will show up on turn three. Etc, etc.

This feeling hit me particularly during a level where you have to escort a befuddled naturalist away from two raging basilisks, which proceed to chase your party through the level. All I had to do was get the bastard out of the area, but I spent ages replaying the level because I wanted to do it perfectly – killing a basilisk and opening two out-of-the-way chests in order to get all the rewards.



Even with all the repetition, it was still quite fun (and I imagine there would have been a lot less repetition if I was the sort of person clever and analytical enough to work it all out on the first try). But I was perhaps missing the point. Because while it’s completely legitimate to play Druidstone as this sort of plot-and-play puzzler, it’s also a game that’s designed to accommodate reckless, have-a-go dunces like me.

After the basilisk level, I started just having a bash at levels – not thinking too hard about them, and concentrating on meeting their baseline objectives. Sometimes, I got a “hole in one”, nailing it on the first go, and sometimes it took me two or three tries. Sometimes, I even hit all the bonus objectives while I was at it. But where I didn’t, I just moved on to other levels, beefed up my party with the XP and gold received, then came back later to do the optional objectives with a stronger team.



Playing this way, I never felt ‘stuck’, and could relax into enjoying the impressive variety of level design on offer – not to mention Druidstone’s beautifully oversaturated landscapes, its weirdly calming score, its simple-yet-charming story and its surprisingly entertaining dialogue. Admittedly the dialogue was particularly entertaining as I had called my main character “The Big Man”, and his name prefixed every line of text he spoke, but I was also fond of the weird magical grifter Oiko, who provided a lot more fun than his role as wisecracking, diminutive sidekick demanded.

Even if you account for having multiple goes at several levels, it isn’t a long game – it’s perfect for a couple of weekends’ play, or for a week or so of after-work dip-ins. And that’s fine. The care that’s been taken to ensure every level is interesting means that it never feels lightweight, and I’d rather it be the length it is, than extend into lacklustre grind. And besides, with talk of a level creation and editing tool being added to the game soon, there’s potential for it to take on a new life after completion.



After finishing with Druidstone, I found it interesting to think how much less of a game it might have been if its developers had gone through with early plans to make levels procedurally generated. While a more random, improvisational version of Druidstone might have appealed to my appetite for turn-based tactical games, and might – in fairness – have been more replayable, I suspect I would have enjoyed it less, and gotten bored before the end.

As it is, this is a perfectly reasonable portion of carefully planned fantasy stabbing, which was enough fun (once I started playing properly, at least) to make me reevaluate my whole position on puzzle elements in tactical games. Hell, it might even be time to postpone my next marathon slog with XCOM, and revisit Into the Breach.
 

Bara

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
1,321
Yeah they patched that out as of 1.0.26 I thought it was hilarious when I found that out.

Either some one at Scoring Helsinki got lazy or this was one heck of a coincidence.
 

Quantomas

Savant
Joined
Jun 9, 2017
Messages
260
You know, you could easily use my review and comment it as you see fit, if this saves you some work. A coproduction if you like.

I think Druidstone does some things right that deserve more attention AND a good Codex Review.

There is something that RPG developers still try to capture, sort of the spirit of adventuring that lives in table-top campaigns, but that is quite difficult to implement properly on a PC. Games like Druidstone, the upcoming Gloomhaven and Solasta contribute to unravel this. So far mostly all devs somehow always mess it up at one step or another, because it's easy to fail at one feature or system, because it is the interplay between all interlocking systems that makes the whole experience worthwhile, not to mention that it also has to hold up the content, and getting everything right ..... you know.
 

Tasdrol

Barely Literate
Joined
Jun 28, 2019
Messages
1
I loved this game combat system! Any similar games to recommend? (Low damage numbers, no rng hit chance is what I mostly liked <3 )
 

Bara

Arcane
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Messages
1,321
Best I can think of is Hard West if you don't have it already. It's a 1.99 on the steam sale so a steal at that price.



It still has misses in a fashion where any shot you take that dosen't hit drains a foes luck bar which lowers their subsequent chance to dodge in the future until they are hit. When they do get hit their luck partially increases again. This also applies to your characters and both you and your opponents have special abilities that require and drain luck on use.
 

Curratum

Guest
any shot you take that dosen't hit drains a foes luck bar which lowers their subsequent chance to dodge in the future until they are hit.

Literally all the autists in the Baldur's Gate 3 thread: OH NO! POPAMOLE GARBAGE! WHO COMES UP WITH THOSE MECHANICS!
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
any shot you take that dosen't hit drains a foes luck bar which lowers their subsequent chance to dodge in the future until they are hit.

Literally all the autists in the Baldur's Gate 3 thread: OH NO! POPAMOLE GARBAGE! WHO COMES UP WITH THOSE MECHANICS!
needs more random dice rolling to be true incline, if I can't randomly win every fight without any tactics then the game is popamole garbage
 

Luckmann

Arcane
Zionist Agent
Joined
Jul 20, 2009
Messages
3,759
Location
Scandinavia
Honestly it's pretty OK. But it's not really an RPG, at the end of the day it's pretty shallow, and it's got basically zero replayability. I'm not sure what they were thinking when they released the mod tools. It's going to be hard to get people to do stuff for this game once interest have died down.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,490
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
They haven't released any mod tools yet.
 

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