KickStarter Solasta Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Lawntoilet]

Party size is 4, that much is fixed. Spellblade isn't revealed yet, to be honest it was an oversight - we never intended to talk about it in the first place so I can't reveal anything about it for now^^

Sorcerers aren't in the game, but we did chat about the possibilities of adding classes during the Kickstarter Campaign, which might be the source of confusion.

Thanks man.
Any frontrunners for which classes the devs would most like to add?
What class would you personally most like to see added?

 

[purpleblob]

How come I have completely missed this? Looks super sweet.

It's sweet as honey my dude, we just added music to the new build and it does wonder to the game. Can't wait to share some samples when KS goes live.

Sweet as honey huh? Well, I still need more info before fully jumping on a hype train - so when's the kickstarter campaign launching?

 

[Myzzrym]

Sweet as honey huh? Well, I still need more info before fully jumping on a hype train - so when's the kickstarter campaign launching?

Yea we're not asking for people to throw money at us blindly. When our Kickstarter goes live we'll release a free demo on Steam (should be a good 1h of playtime if you're not speedrunning it) so you can try it out for yourself, then you can decide if you want to back us or not. Date is not announced yet, but it's a couple of weeks away so not too far.

Any frontrunners for which classes the devs would most like to add?
What class would you personally most like to see added?

Well, I can't talk about the first point :p

Second point however, hmmmm let's see. It might be boring but I feel like Paladins are D&D classics, and not having them would be pretty sad for a D&D game. As for the others:
- Barbarians: Classic as well, but I've always had trouble justifying a Barbarian over a Fighter in a video game
- Bard: Iconic for lots of people, love a good bard on tabletop but always felt it translates very poorly into video game (just add some music notes when he casts a spells to show that HEY GUYS IT'S TOTALLY A BARD NOT A WIZARD)
- Druid: Ehhhh, nah. Shapeshifting is a nightmare to do properly.
- Monk: Love monks, always loved them, but I don't see how it could fit in the lore.
- Ranger: Yea, why not. Rangers are just kind of there, they've always been there. Make sense to have them. Even though vanilla rangers kind of suck.
- Sorcerer: Eeeeh... 5e made it so Sorcerer are kinda... well... let's just say I know a lot of people who just think Wizards are straight out better, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with them.
- Warlock: Never played / played with a Warlock so far on Tabletop, so I didn't really make an opinion of Warlocks yet.

Remember those are my own opinions and they don't mean anything in terms of what is more likely to be added.

 

[purpleblob]

- Sorcerer: Eeeeh... 5e made it so Sorcerer are kinda... well... let's just say I know a lot of people who just think Wizards are straight out better, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with them

I'm not familiar with 5e - what changed for sorcerers that people prefer wizards over them?

 

[Myzzrym]

Disclaimer: I'm not the most familiar guy with magic classes, as I usually DM low-magic campaigns. That being said:
- Sorcerer & Wizards share most of their spell list
- Wizards in 5e have pretty cool features with their Specialized School now, which is great compared to 3.5. So yay, improvements for Wizards!
- Wizards also keep the fact that they can have a bazillion of spell known thanks to their spellbook - and even without that, they gain a lot of spells naturally through leveling up.
- Sorcerer always had less spells known, but compensated with being able to cast more spells. However, their new features in 5e rely on Sorcery Points... which are used if you want to cast more spells.
- Basically, Wizards get new features + keep their previous advantage - where Sorcerers get new features, but can only use it if they discard their previous advantage (without spending sorcery points, you can cast the exact same amount of spells as wizards).
- You can still play around a bit with Sorcerer since you can turn your spells into Sorcery Points, allowing you to burn low level slots to use additional high level ones - but it's not a 1:1 conversion so you lose a bit on that side (still, it's something).

Something I also dislike is that while Wizards features are new, Sorcerer features are just the old Metamagic Feats. So Wizards can't have those anymore, and Sorcerer don't get cool new features - just old ones repurposed.

I'm sure I'm missing a lot, and might have misunderstand some finer points - but overall that's my biggest gripes on the top of my head.

 

[Dorateen]

It might be boring but I feel like Paladins are D&D classics, and not having them would be pretty sad for a D&D game.

Encouraging to hear this train of thought. In a four character party, I like to bring a paladin in lieu of a cleric. Hope the class (or as a sub-class of Fighter) makes it into the game.

 

[Thal]

Second point however, hmmmm let's see. It might be boring but I feel like Paladins are D&D classics, and not having them would be pretty sad for a D&D game. As for the others:
- Barbarians: Classic as well, but I've always had trouble justifying a Barbarian over a Fighter in a video game
- Bard: Iconic for lots of people, love a good bard on tabletop but always felt it translates very poorly into video game (just add some music notes when he casts a spells to show that HEY GUYS IT'S TOTALLY A BARD NOT A WIZARD)
- Druid: Ehhhh, nah. Shapeshifting is a nightmare to do properly.
- Monk: Love monks, always loved them, but I don't see how it could fit in the lore.
- Ranger: Yea, why not. Rangers are just kind of there, they've always been there. Make sense to have them. Even though vanilla rangers kind of suck.
- Sorcerer: Eeeeh... 5e made it so Sorcerer are kinda... well... let's just say I know a lot of people who just think Wizards are straight out better, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with them.
- Warlock: Never played / played with a Warlock so far on Tabletop, so I didn't really make an opinion of Warlocks yet.

When resources are tight, I think the best way to approach it would be to include classes that play differently enough from classes already present or fulfill a combat role not already covered. Judging from your list, I'd go for:

• Paladin: It's a holy warrior and a classic archetype like you say.
• Warlock: Not a Mage, Fighter or a Fighter/Mage. Very unique style, lots of potential and rarely seen in crpgs.
  
• Monk: Lots of potential, but if it's not lore friendly, no go.
• Druid: Cool if done properly, but if shapeshifting is too much work, then why bother.
• Ranger: Can you make him different from a Fighter with a bow?
• Sorcerer: Likely to be nothing more than a wizard with less micromanagement
  
• Barbarian: It's a Fighter in medium armor. If you were to include it, I'd drop the Fighter instead and make you choose between Barb and Paladin. Now you have an actual difference.
• Bard: In a 4 man party? You'd really have to flesh them out for them to make the team. However, IWD2 did a pretty good job at making them unique.

 

[Lawntoilet]

Yea we're not asking for people to throw money at us blindly. When our Kickstarter goes live we'll release a free demo on Steam (should be a good 1h of playtime if you're not speedrunning it) so you can try it out for yourself, then you can decide if you want to back us or not. Date is not announced yet, but it's a couple of weeks away so not too far.

I didn't realize the timeline for getting the demo was so close, that's awesome.

Second point however, hmmmm let's see. It might be boring but I feel like Paladins are D&D classics, and not having them would be pretty sad for a D&D game. As for the others:

I agree and besides that, Paladins are IMO very well-designed in 5e.
Warlock would be cool too, I can't remember seeing them in a D&D game other than NWN2 and they are a pretty unique class. My first PnP character ever was a Warlock so I have bit of a soft spot for them.

I'm not familiar with 5e - what changed for sorcerers that people prefer wizards over them?

Because Wizards are so much more flexible due to spell selection (and to a lesser extent due to their School features which are very fun).
Sorcerers are awesome buffers due to the Concentration mechanic in 5e - they're the only class that can have Haste running on 2 targets simultaneously, for example, due to Twinned Spell - and they can be really good blasters by burning Sorcery Points for spell slots, but they are just a lot less versatile than a Wizard. Plus their subclasses are mostly lacking (especially Wild Magic), although since this game is building it's own subclasses they could alleviate that issue if Sorcs make it into the game.

 

[ArchAngel]

Also random impression on Reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/Gaming4Gam...ta_crown_of_the_magister_showed_off_early_5e/

From that link:

Regarding reactions - they were almost like QuickTime events. A timer appeared, and if I had something I could use with my reaction (e.g. I used featherfall when the floor fell out from under me) I could use it, or decide not to. It was extremely slick.

I hope this is a joke. QuickTime events in my turn based D&D game?! Please someone tell me this is a joke..

 

[Lawntoilet]

Also random impression on Reddit: https://old.reddit.com/r/Gaming4Gam...ta_crown_of_the_magister_showed_off_early_5e/

From that link:

Regarding reactions - they were almost like QuickTime events. A timer appeared, and if I had something I could use with my reaction (e.g. I used featherfall when the floor fell out from under me) I could use it, or decide not to. It was extremely slick.

I hope this is a joke. QuickTime events in my turn based D&D game?! Please someone tell me this is a joke..

You'd still have to actually have the spell prepared, and Reactions are time-sensitive by their nature. It doesn't sound like pushing the win button to me.

When resources are tight, I think the best way to approach it would be to include classes that play differently enough from classes already present or fulfill a combat role not already covered. Judging from your list, I'd go for:

• Paladin: It's a holy warrior and a classic archetype like you say.
• Warlock: Not a Mage, Fighter or a Fighter/Mage. Very unique style, lots of potential and rarely seen in crpgs.
  
• Monk: Lots of potential, but if it's not lore friendly, no go.
• Druid: Cool if done properly, but if shapeshifting is too much work, then why bother.
• Ranger: Can you make him different from a Fighter with a bow?
• Sorcerer: Likely to be nothing more than a wizard with less micromanagement
  
• Barbarian: It's a Fighter in medium armor. If you were to include it, I'd drop the Fighter instead and make you choose between Barb and Paladin. Now you have an actual difference.
• Bard: In a 4 man party? You'd really have to flesh them out for them to make the team. However, IWD2 did a pretty good job and making them unique.

I mostly agree. You can make Ranger unique by giving them a pet (which 5e does let you do but that archetype is laughably underpowered). I'm also not sure that a Sorc would necessarily require less micromanagement than a Wizard due to metamagic and Sorcery points.

 

[Myzzrym]

I hope this is a joke. QuickTime events in my turn based D&D game?! Please someone tell me this is a joke..

Yea you actually have to press the right key combination within a rythm minigame to make sure your cleric can cast Shield properly.

... No of course not, unless "Quicktime Event" meant "A pop-up with information displayed so you can decide on whether or not you want to use your spell slot, that slowly ticks down so you can make an educated decision within 30 sec". Because that's what it is.

 

[ArchAngel]

I hope this is a joke. QuickTime events in my turn based D&D game?! Please someone tell me this is a joke..

Yea you actually have to press the right key combination within a rythm minigame to make sure your cleric can cast Shield properly.

... No of course not, unless "Quicktime Event" meant "A pop-up with information displayed so you can decide on whether or not you want to use your spell slot, that slowly ticks down so you can make an educated decision within 30 sec". Because that's what it is.

Remove the 30s shit. It does nothing except irritate people.

 

[Myzzrym]

When resources are tight, I think the best way to approach it would be to include classes that play differently enough from classes already present or fulfill a combat role not already covered.

Yes, but you also have to keep in mind that some classes will be easier for us to add than others. Druid is a perfect example of a very complex class to add as it would require a lot of specific work that can only be used for Druids.

Remove the 30s shit. It does nothing except irritate people.

It's still a reaction. We do want you to make a quick decision, on tabletop DMs would give you a few seconds to react (longer here because there's text to read)

 

[pm_675]

I hope this is a joke. QuickTime events in my turn based D&D game?! Please someone tell me this is a joke..

Yea you actually have to press the right key combination within a rythm minigame to make sure your cleric can cast Shield properly.

... No of course not, unless "Quicktime Event" meant "A pop-up with information displayed so you can decide on whether or not you want to use your spell slot, that slowly ticks down so you can make an educated decision within 30 sec". Because that's what it is.

Remove the 30s shit. It does nothing except irritate people.

Indeed, whenever I have to make a choice between 2 simple options I need to seriously considerate them.

For example I take 5 minutes studying them attentively before going to make myself a nice cup of coffee (or tea). Afterwards, sitting myself in front of the computer with my cup, hot to the touch of my hands I sip my caffeinated drink as I contemplate the difficult choice of casting fly or falling down. And where the choice be, between reacting with counterspell or not I think I will need a good night of sleep to make such choice. Decisions, oh decisions!

 

[ArchAngel]

When resources are tight, I think the best way to approach it would be to include classes that play differently enough from classes already present or fulfill a combat role not already covered.

Yes, but you also have to keep in mind that some classes will be easier for us to add than others. Druid is a perfect example of a very complex class to add as it would require a lot of specific work that can only be used for Druids.

Remove the 30s shit. It does nothing except irritate people.

It's still a reaction. We do want you to make a quick decision, on tabletop DMs would give you a few seconds to react (longer here because there's text to read)

On tabletop DM do a lot of shit, it does not mean you need to have that in a game. For example in tabletop DMs don't allow you to load your game if you failed, maybe you should implement ironman mode as only mode to play this game..

 

[purpleblob]

Myzzrym if things go well with kickstarter how many additional classes will be added?

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

How come I have completely missed this? Looks super sweet.

It's sweet as honey my dude, we just added music to the new build and it does wonder to the game. Can't wait to share some samples when KS goes live.

Well don't screw it up. :D So few games make good use of mundane mechanics like jumping, climbing, light...

 

[Quantomas]

Remove the 30s shit. It does nothing except irritate people.

It's still a reaction. We do want you to make a quick decision, on tabletop DMs would give you a few seconds to react (longer here because there's text to read)

It's not just cases where the bell is ringing ...

People will make their choice in their own time, eventually. Why force them?

That's just as nonsensical as the unnecessary rule changes.

If you would give players an option to play with the 30s limit or not, what do you think how many players would choose this?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Myzzrym don't listen to ArchAngel please, thanks.

 

[Thonius]

I made resolution not to donate on kickstarter anymore... but this I like.

 

[ArchAngel]

Myzzrym don't listen to ArchAngel please, thanks.

You are a retard. 30s limit has no real purpose except to annoy players. It gives enough time to make a decision, so why it exists?!
I could understand a 5s timer that puts a pressure on a player to make a quick decision. Although I would hate that even more I could at least understand its purpose.

Can any non retarded people give a real explanation why this needs to exist in a computer game?
Does it also not allow you to press ESC to pause the game? Because people can turn it into their own infinite timer that way..

 

[Strange Fellow]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to agree with ArchAngel here. What purpose does the time limit serve? It won't make things go any faster, since I assume you can skip your reaction move at any time. The limit is so lenient anyway that it doesn't put pressure on the player at all, all it does is fuck the player in the unlikely event that they have to step away right when a reaction opportunity happens.

Use your goddamn words, not the buttans.

 

[Myzzrym]

Hey folks, no need to go nuclear on each other's ass over this issue - ArchAngel makes a fair point, at the end of the day Solasta is a PC game which is why we had to adapt some stuff like distances (longbow's actual range would be something like 20 screens if we followed tabletop rules). I think his argument is valid, so I'll forward both side of the coin to the designers (doesn't mean that we'll change it, but they'll take a look at it). Like many topics, there will always be people that agree and others that disagree, it's healthy to hear both sides.

My understanding is that we wanted Reactions to feel like Reactions, hence the timed-event window - similar to the games where you have to make dialog choices under 15 sec to avoid having people pause and go look on internet, just go with guts feeling.

Myzzrym if things go well with kickstarter how many additional classes will be added?

Can't tell for sure, but unless it goes widely (and by that I mean WIDELY) above what we expect I don't think you should hope for more than 4 extra classes (since each class needs 2 extra archetypes in addition to the one that's available in D&D OGL). Again, one of our top priority is not endangering the production schedule of the game - although we'll be aiming to release the extra classes at launch, if we must we may add them post-launch (for free if they were promised through Kickstarter).

 

[Kalarion]

Hey folks, no need to go nuclear on each other's ass over this issue - ...there will always be people that agree and others that disagree, it's healthy to hear both sides.

Did you lurk at all before beginning to post here? I don't ask derogatorily; the above quote makes me think you may not fully understand the nature of this forum. ArchAngel has been getting shit slung at him like a champ for years. And he's flung it right back with the best of them. Having the closest thing to completely unmoderated discourse that you'll find on the internet these days means we tend to attract very opinionated and strong-willed posters, of all stripes. Calls for even-handed conversation are wasted here (again, not trying to be off-putting).

My suggestions:
- do a lot of lurking; understanding the nature of this forum and its posters has a much more valuable payoff then elsewhere. Trust me on this.
- tune out all the shit talking and nastiness. On the 'Dex it's like white noise. The goal should be to mentally make it the gentlest white noise possible; ideally it will aid your concentration and enhance focus rather than driving you insane :D

Good luck on your game! I'm looking forward to hearing more about it (assuming you end up staying for the long haul, of course).

 

[Mortmal]

If the game is good dont worry, we will buy overpriced dlc adding new dungeons races and classes. Look at paradox, they are a bit extreme on that with their business model , they just show you the limit to not cross.Some of the iconic classes missing of 5E are paladin, those got really revamped and no longer lawful goodie two shoes,the oath are very worth it . Ranger is the lovechild of wotc, a powerhouse in 5E i am surprised its not in .Bards is very versatile and OP when it comes to social game, in a dungeon delve not so much. Warlock a lackluster wizard with less options, just spam eldritch blasts, monks aren't good either.