Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[Reinhardt]

But casuals are exactly who push all that "kill" shit. Other approaches are too hard for them.

you mean clicking on dialogue option to intimidate bluff or diplomacy is harder than actually dealing with combat encounter ?

Considering "combat encounter" usually consists of "select all, left click" - yes, harder. Because reading is hard. That's why everything must have voiced dialogues now. THAT'S your average casuals, not people who complains about difficulty.

Games are easy already, so even braindead person won't have problems with difficulty if he's not game journo - they are really special. So dumbing down for casuals is not making games easier anymore.

 

[Atchodas]

Considering "combat encounter" usually consists of "select all, left click" - yes, harder. Because reading is hard. That's why everything must have voiced dialogues now. THAT'S your average casuals, not people who complains about difficulty.

Not convinced at all , left click on Intimidate option is way easier than click on Attack in dialogue , select all and left click thats like 3 actions against 1.

P.S. I like your assessment of pillows combat thats all there is to it actually :D

 

[Reinhardt]

left click on Intimidate option is way easier than click on Attack in dialogue , select all and left click thats like 3 actions against 1.

If you just click "intimidate" nothing awesome will happen. It's not awesome button. Also no loot. BOOOOORING.

 

[Atchodas]

pretty sure they give you their loot(usually the unique item they would drop or some quest item) most of the time after you intimidate them in pillows derpfire - participation trophies is nothing unusual in sjw dream world

 

[Lacrymas]

I don't think all intimidation/bluff/diplomacy options should lead to no combat, since a good combat encounter is a reward in itself and you deny yourself that by passing the skill check. I'd use it sparingly and when it makes sense, but maybe increase the rewards for a passed check or make it have consequences down the line instead of outright denying you a combat encounter. For example, you pass a diplomacy check for an expected reward and when you actually go to receive it, some foe decides to backstab you and take the reward for himself (perhaps in league with others), but you receive that extra reward when you defeat the encounter because it was brought there anyway. I'm sure way more interesting things can be thought up.

 

[Atchodas]

or make it have consequences down the line

that does not exist in pillows universe

and yes I agree that getting into combat and winning the encounter is THE reward

 

[FreeKaner]

What PoE3 needs is to not have anything of an epic world saving adventure of Gods and focus to what Obsidian (still) does best, which is factions and interpersonal stories that focus on odd scenarios. Basically they need to do more WM1/2, Beast of Winter, Forgotten Sanctum and quests revolving around more mundane concerns like downtrodden and the criminal underworld (The Gullet and the Principi) and all that. They simply can't do epic stories because they get lost trying to make it deep and meaningful, philosophy or theology is not their strong suit.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

What PoE3 needs is to not have anything of an epic world saving adventure of Gods and focus to what Obsidian (still) does best, which is factions and interpersonal stories that focus on odd scenarios. Basically they need to do more WM1/2, Beast of Winter, Forgotten Sanctum and quests revolving around more mundane concerns like downtrodden and the criminal underworld (The Gullet and the Principi) and all that. They simply can't do epic stories because they get lost trying to make it deep and meaningful, philosophy or theology is not their strong suit.

wasn't beast of winter all about gods?

 

[FreeKaner]

wasn't beast of winter all about gods?

So is WM but what I mean here is that Gods in these scenarios aren't about grand standing epic tales with message or deep philosophical and theological questions about existence or genesis but rather like the real world mythology gods' involvement in world as participating actors.

When it is just Gods being flawed beings with self-interested or odd motives and how that affects the world it turns out fine but when they try to make it into something deeper it falls flat on its own face, while also sidelining some of the better aspects of the game as it happened in both PoE1 and PoE2.

 

[Prime Junta]

They simply can't do epic stories because they get lost trying to make it deep and meaningful, philosophy or theology is not their strong suit.

Their mistake is trying to make the epic stories philosophically meaningful. They don't have to be. The thoroughly epic world-saving story in Dragon Age: Inquisition for example is perfectly serviceable but there's nothing philosophical or deep about it, and the DA idea of gods and their followers is much less clunky than the Pillars one.

Spoiler

And before you start, yes DA:I sucked in many-splendored ways, but story wasn't one of them.

 

[FreeKaner]

Their mistake is trying to make the epic stories philosophically meaningful. They don't have to be. The thoroughly epic world-saving story in Dragon Age: Inquisition for example is perfectly serviceable but there's nothing philosophical or deep about it, and the DA idea of gods and their followers is much less clunky than the Pillars one.

Spoiler

And before you start, yes DA:I sucked in many-splendored ways, but story wasn't one of them.

I don't disagree with that but why do that when they seem to be just much better at mundane or specific stories? It's just better too than simple epic stories.

 

[Delterius]

obsidian should have learned from bethesda that when you make a nice world to explore you shouldn't make a dumb main plot that urges you to stop everything to GODS GODS GODS

which is nice to see that they are going to make a pillars of the elder scrolls 3 with probably the very same pitfalls everywhere

 

[vortex]

obsidian should have learned from bethesda that when you make a nice world to explore you shouldn't make a dumb main plot that urges you to stop everything to GODS GODS GODS

which is nice to see that they are going to make a pillars of the elder scrolls 3 with probably the very same pitfalls everywhere

Even worse. Sawyer is making new kind of cRPG a.k.a. casual RPGee a.k.a. no combat RPGee.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

They simply can't do epic stories because they get lost trying to make it deep and meaningful, philosophy or theology is not their strong suit.

Their mistake is trying to make the epic stories philosophically meaningful. They don't have to be. The thoroughly epic world-saving story in Dragon Age: Inquisition for example is perfectly serviceable but there's nothing philosophical or deep about it, and the DA idea of gods and their followers is much less clunky than the Pillars one.

Spoiler

And before you start, yes DA:I sucked in many-splendored ways, but story wasn't one of them.

Yup. Best moments of both Pillars 1 and 2 are when the writers aren't trying too hard to be deep and sophisticated.

Deadfire is at its best when it's just a Monkey-Island RPG without all the woo-woo and White March is a fan favorite largely because it's the only time when all the woo woo actually made sense.

 

[aweigh]

worst parts of deadfire are:

- having to walk all over that boring big city and talk to so many boring npcs. very tedious.
- having to sail all around the world in boring dumb ship with tedious mechanics.
- no good dungeons to explore.
- no areas to travel thru physically like in the first game where it felt like you were actually trekking thru places.

that's my review of deadfire

 

[Yosharian]

What PoE3 needs is to not have anything of an epic world saving adventure of Gods and focus to what Obsidian (still) does best, which is factions and interpersonal stories that focus on odd scenarios. Basically they need to do more WM1/2, Beast of Winter, Forgotten Sanctum and quests revolving around more mundane concerns like downtrodden and the criminal underworld (The Gullet and the Principi) and all that. They simply can't do epic stories because they get lost trying to make it deep and meaningful, philosophy or theology is not their strong suit.

It just needs good writing... the theme is not the problem, the writing is.

 

[Lacrymas]

The only RPGs which have done epic well are Planetescape: Tournament and Mask of the Betrayer. Every other fan- and KKKodex favorite is grounded and more adventure-like. BG2 has been derided for its writing from the start. PS:T and MotB still have very personal and human stories behind them, the epic stuff is just framing and a representation of the immense forces arrayed against the human spirit.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

It's funny how at first we were all hoping please don't be another chosen one save the world game, but now literally everyone would prefer that over convoluted mess that is Pillars.

The lesson for Obsidian to learn here, is that it's entirely possible for a story to be epic but uninteresting.

 

[Lacrymas]

Both Pillars games are Chosen One stories, though. In PoE1, you aren't THE Chosen One, but A Chosen One (a Watcher, which have historically and socially been given a special place in some way), which is practically the same thing, and you just happen to be a person who is soul-connected to the antagonist. It doesn't really matter that you stumble across your chosen-ness, you haven't earned that power and it doesn't come from what you are as a person, not to mention that the Watcher powers are plot-insulation-y and have conflict resolving potential which is used waaaay too much. PoE2 is literally a Chosen One story, and this time you are the only one. Sure, you are given the option to refuse and someone else will be Chosen instead, but that only shuffles the main character and not their role as a Chosen.

 

[Quillon]

It's funny how at first we were all hoping please don't be another chosen one save the world game, but now literally everyone would prefer that over convoluted mess that is Pillars.

The lesson for Obsidian to learn here, is that it's entirely possible for a story to be epic but uninteresting.

Which is why fuck epic high fantasy and make grounded stories in the context of the setting. Imagine how good it woulda been if Skyrim was all about civil war(with competent writers) and not about DRAAGONS...which I admit the premise of DRAAGONS story is not bad at all but Obs can't come up with exciting premises for epic high fantasy and could have made the shit out of a civil war storyline with lots power plays, C&C and whatnot.

Why PFKM story works? Cos its about building a kingdom at its core and not defending it from a world ending looming threat for the entire game. But again both can work but you have to know your strengths.

 

[Prime Junta]

Imagine how good it woulda been if Skyrim was all about civil war(with competent writers)

Why would you want to go to civil war with competent writers? What did they DO?

 

[Quillon]

Imagine how good it woulda been if Skyrim was all about civil war(with competent writers)

Why would you want to go to civil war with competent writers? What did they DO?

To find the one who will rule them all!

 

[Atchodas]

When I was going trough Deadfire faction quests I actually wondered how much of faction content they had planned but had to cut , Royal Deadfire Company has cut content 100% , all 5 factions leading you to crookspur seems like some cut content to me i mean no-one in sane mind would actually decide to give same quest to ALL factions in the game, cmon now, also the fact that no matter what outcome u choose for the faction quests they all will be fine with it and give you minor positive instead of major positive reputation if you decide to stab them in the back and solve quest in completely different way. This all just feels like unfinished unpolished mess to me , I honestly dont want to believe that they didn't have to cut anything and made it the way it is.

 

[Orma]

Deadfire haters a bunch of faceless losers now????

 

[vortex]

Which is why fuck epic high fantasy and make grounded stories in the context of the setting. Imagine how good it woulda been if Skyrim was all about civil war(with competent writers) and not about DRAAGONS...which I admit the premise of DRAAGONS story is not bad at all but Obs can't come up with exciting premises for epic high fantasy and could have made the shit out of a civil war storyline with lots power plays, C&C and whatnot.

Main plot should be apolitical. Dragons are waaay cooler. Civil war should be side thing.

Why PFKM story works? Cos its about building a kingdom at its core and not defending it from a world ending looming threat for the entire game. But again both can work but you have to know your strengths.

You can always disquise doomsday threat as "there's a shortage of adra stone, iron ore". What could be be? Let's investigate. BAAM. It turns out there's a greater situation at hand and it makes story more interesting.