Fallout Fallout et tu (Fallout to Fallout 2 engine conversion)

[Lilura]

I reread some of your blog posts, and you don't really address the issue. You have some points about TuTu or BGT unbalancing things, and some things (many of them cosmetic) being superior in BG1, but IMO the only thing that seriously unbalances BG1 using the BG2 engine is the prestige classes, which can wholly be avoided by simply not choosing one for CHARNAME.
SCS is just mentioned is passing as being "garbage" or something like that.
I can't see that you have addressed the issue of how easy vanilla BG1 is.

Wrong write-up. It's this one. It shows how shoving BG campaign into BG2 engine changes the nature of the former. And that's what this Fallout misfit-modder is doing. He should apply for a job at Beamdog.

Thanks, but it will probably take me a couple of years to reach IWD2. In the meantime I may replay the IWD+HoW+TLL+mods yet again (there is a reason IWD is the party based CRPG I have played most times).

My retrospective for IWD2 is 80% done. Will post in next few days.

 

[octavius]

Wrong write-up. It's this one. It shows how shoving BG campaign into BG2 engine changes the nature of the former.

That's the one I read. And of course shoving BG campaign into BG2 engine changes the nature of the former. That's the whole point, hopefully making the pros outweight possible cons, right? And as I said, the cons are mostly cosmetic ones.

 

[Lilura]

That's the one I read. And of course shoving BG campaign into BG2 engine changes the nature of the former. That's the whole point, hopefully making the pros outweight possible cons, right? And as I said, the cons are mostly cosmetic ones.

They're not mostly cosmetic (which are not unnotable). It's an ENGINE change. The BG and BG2 engines are as different as the Fallout and Fallout 2 engines. Timings are different, waylays are different. Healing, bartering etc. It goes on and on. Like I said earlier, we're talking thousands of differences the sum-total of which change the nature of the game.

IOW, it's no longer Fallout and it's no longer Baldur's Gate. It's an abomination.

 

[barghwata]

She can't help it, she just loves hearing herself talk.

It's not that, bargh. All I did was express my views. Then, the shill-scrubs became upset and started getting personal. This is an eye for an eye. If they keep it up, I'll formally take them to task on my blog.

And this modder, in the news-thread, is trying to devalue the original and authoritative version of Fallout in order to prop up his Beamdog mod. Because that's what this is. Beamdog shoved BG, IWD and PS:T into the BG2 engine, and he's shoving Fallout into the Fallout 2 engine.

Ok that's fine, you're obviously free to voice your opinions, but can you explain in what way this mod does any actual harm or "devalues the original version of Fallout" in any way to deserve this much contempt? i mean i can certainly understand why you hate Beamdog since they basically slap some minor graphical improvments to an older game and occasionally even ruin its mechanics then market it and sell it as a so called "Enhanced edition", but this isn't the case here, this is just a free mod that some guy made for people who want to play FO1 in FO2's engine, why do you feel the need to belittle his hard work and mock it?

 

[Jvegi]

but IMO the only thing that seriously unbalances BG1 using the BG2 engine is the prestige classes

Loot selection for individual party members is very limited due to additional weapon proficiencies. It's really noticable. Lilura's got a point there, but the authoratitive stuff is a psychotic BS, as long as the original version is available. And it very often isn't, but that's a separate issue. Optional improvements are good, unless they come with new drawbacks.

 

[Lilura]

Ok that's fine, you're obviously free to voice your opinions, but can you explain in what way this mod does any actual harm or "devalues the original version of Fallout" in any way to deserve this much contempt? i mean i can certainly understand why you hate Beamdog since they basically slap some minor graphical improvments to an older game and occasionally even ruin its mechanics then market it and sell as a so called "Enhanced edition", but this isn't the case here, this is just a free mod that some guy made for people who want to play FO1 in FO2's engine, why do you feel the need to belittle his hard work and mock it?

Beamdog did hard work, too, and most of the 'Dex still mock their EEs (a good thing). Because the reality is, just because you put in hard yards, doesn't mean your work should get auto-praised. There is nothing wrong with tempering shill-scrubbery with questions and criticisms; even write-offs.

This mod does exactly what the EEs do: shove an original campaign into a sequel's engine, thereby changing its nature. Then, appeal to the casual'tard audience by advertising its "convenience" tweaks and other game-imbalancing features as "a better experience".

And of course, I have an agenda:

Free mod or not, this modder is on the record as devaluing the legacy of original Fallout merely in order to prop up his Beamdog mod.

This is just shill-scrubbery: they hate the EEs but they'll defend a mod because... it's a Fallout mod?

 

[Darth Canoli]

Something like that. You are playing the *content* of Fallout 1 as a mod in Fallout 2, though. The only reason Fallout 1 must be installed as well is because we are extracting graphic and sound files which don't exist in Fo2 (talking heads, speech files, tiles, etc).

I share Deadalos concerns and don't care one bit about any game supposed historical release featuring mythical bugs.
The only thing that matters is having a bug-free game with as many optional features as possible and better mechanisms.

Is there a list of these features from fixit you didn't add ?

And thanks for your work again, it's a nice surprise.

 

[octavius]

but IMO the only thing that seriously unbalances BG1 using the BG2 engine is the prestige classes

Loot selection for individual party members is very limited due to additional weapon proficiencies. It's really noticable. Lilura's got a point there, but the authoratitive stuff is a psychotic BS, as long as the original version is available. And it very often isn't, but that's a separate issue. Optional improvements are good, unless they come with new drawbacks.

Well, the only way I can see myself playing the original BG1 again is to try those old quest mods. I always though they sounded frightfully munchinlike, but Lilura's blog made them sound interesting.

This is just shill-scrubbery: they hate the EEs but they'll defend a mod because... it's a Fallout mod?

Because Beamdog are shameless shysters and a modder works for free?

 

[barghwata]

Beamdog did hard work, too, and most of the 'Dex still mock their EEs (a good thing). Because the reality is, just because you put in hard yards, doesn't mean your work should get auto-praised. There is nothing wrong with tempering shill-scrubbery with questions and criticisms; even write-offs.

Free mod or not, this modder is on the record as devaluing the legacy of original Fallout merely in order to prop up his Beamdog mod.

This is just shill-scrubbery: they hate the EEs but they'll defend a mod because... it's a Fallout mod?

I can't speak for other people, but for me personally, the reason i dislike beamdog isn't due to the fact that they "ruin the legacy" of classic games by changing their mechanics, they're free to do whatever the hell they want, the problem lies in their dishonesty and shitty marketing, they sell their mods as so callled "Enhanced editions" that bring nothing but improvements despite the fact that they put very little effort in them and occasionally even mess them up so bad that they turn out way worst then the original versions.

If this guy renames his mod to "Fallout: Enhanced Edition" and starts selling it for 20 dollars and marketing it as "the best way to play Fallout"; then i would understand where you're coming from, but for now your reaction just seems a little over the top.

 

[Butter]

Writes "will now drop the modder and this thread into my iggy bin."
Proceeds to post in the thread.

I'm pretty sure she ignored me instead of the thread, very cleverly deducing that I was in some way involved with the creation of the mod.

 

[Lilura]

but the authoratitive stuff is a psychotic BS, as long as the original version is available.

Wrong. Authoritative pertains to the original version of a game, as released and patched by the devs. That was, is and will always be the nature of things. You can't fight that authority; it's unassailable. It doesn't even matter if devs gives their blessing to a change made by an unofficial fixpack (which isn't the case with any Fallout fix or mod): it's unauthoritative.

Optional improvements are good, unless they come with new drawbacks.

And the drawback here is, Fallout is not Fallout once it's shoved into the Fallout 2 engine. It's an abomination. It's also worth pointing out that when fixpacks and mods gain traction, they can be incoporated into caretaker offerings by the unscrupulous, such as GoG, who are not interested in preserving the legacies of originals (they just want the sales).

 

[Darth Canoli]

I can't speak for other people, but for me personally, the reason i dislike beamdog isn't due to the fact that they "ruin the legacy" of classic games by changing their mechanics, they're free to do whatever the hell they want, the problem lies in their dishonesty and shitty marketing, they sell their mods as so callled "Enhanced editions" that bring nothing but improvements despite the fact that they put very little effort in them and occasionally even mess them up so bad that they turn out way worst then the original versions.

If this guy renames his mod to "Fallout: Enhanced Edition" and starts selling it for 20 dollars and marketing it as "the best way to play Fallout"; then i would understand where you're coming from, but for now your reaction just seems a little over the top.

That's not it.

Beamdog is a team of monkeys whom don't understand shit about game mechanism; let alone combat; adding graphics "improvements" and idiotic companions.

The fact they want to get paid for it only makes it worse because their work is hot garbage.
When their EE (Excrement Editions) get to replace the original releases in game stores it becomes a real nuisance.

So there's little comparison here, besides, one team is retarded, the other one is aiming for incline ...

 

[Terra]

Trying this out now, seems pretty good overall aside from random memory access violation crashes when transitioning to the map from an area exit. Hit it a couple of times now.

 

[Lilura]

Because Beamdog are shameless shysters and a modder works for free?

It's not about money, it's about principles. This mod is as unprincipled as the EEs; its existence based on the same mentality: that more is better. More control, more convenience, more bloat. That's all Decline because it comes at the expense of the original experience.

And then, to have the impudence to criticize a GOAT classic, to laugh at its lack of balance (we all know balance is Decline), in promoting your mod? It's a bit rich.

Also, how were many of Beamdog's "enhancements" made possible? Misfit-mods.

 

[Lexx]

Trying this out now, seems pretty good overall aside from random memory access violation crashes when transitioning to the map from an area exit. Hit it a couple of times now.

Does it crash in always the same place or randomly? Can you post what it says in the memory error?

You could try to disable the "classic worldmap" mod in the ddraw.ini and see if it still crashes.

 

[Lilura]

I can't speak for other people, but for me personally, the reason i dislike beamdog isn't due to the fact that they "ruin the legacy" of classic games by changing their mechanics

You don't think Beamdog has done harm to the legacy of Baldur's Gate - and its community - with their EE mechanics? Then I guess you have no horse in the race.

The mechanics are the biggest problem, you lousy nimrod. Same goes for this Fallout mod. And the root of the problem is the same.

they sell their mods as so callled "Enhanced editions" that bring nothing but improvements despite the fact that they put very little effort in them and occasionally even mess them up so bad that they turn out way worst then the original versions.

Wait. So aren't they doing harm to Baldur's Gate's legacy if their EEs are "messed up so bad that they turn out way worst [sic] then [sic] the original versions?"

Seems to me that not only don't you have a horse in the race, but you also don't know what you believe, or what the fuck you are talking about. Which is typical of those who don't have a horse in the race.

but for now your reaction just seems a little over the top.

You don't have a horse in the race. I do. And if you think my reaction is over the top, how about the shill-scrubs? I think you're only corresponding with me because you are trying to rub me the wrong way.

 

[Terra]

Trying this out now, seems pretty good overall aside from random memory access violation crashes when transitioning to the map from an area exit. Hit it a couple of times now.

Does it crash in always the same place or randomly? Can you post what it says in the memory error?

You could try to disable the "classic worldmap" mod in the ddraw.ini and see if it still crashes.

First time I hit it was when exiting the cave right at the start of the game (crashed before showing the map). Now it crashes fairly consistently when leaving the radscorpion cave.

It can crash in 3 situations (none of which are 100% guaranteed to occur):
-when touching an area exit (no map shown). Observed in the opening caves and radscorpian cave.
-after leaving radscorp cave, when back on the world map, select shady sands, arrive and click on the arrow to enter the shady sands town map (crashes before displaying Shady sands city map)
-if the above does not crash, it can crash when selecting Entrance on the Shady Sands city map

Tried disabling classic map in ddraw.ini but it still crashes.

All that said, just disabled my antivirus and retried my above repro steps 3 times with 0 zero crashes, so it's probably a case of my AV not interacting well with the game.

 

[Lexx]

All that said, just disabled my antivirus and retried my above repro steps 3 times with 0 zero crashes, so it's probably a case of my AV not interacting well with the game.

That actually makes a lot sense, because we are writing stuff into the memory of the game. Maybe the AV sees it as something shady and blocks it, thus the game will crash. Will see if there are ways for us to improve this.

 

[laclongquan]

Dear God!

I spent too much time to mess with the ini in order to change the graphic back to 800x600 but with better quality graphic, because I LIKE that acreage. It make the game look, well, original ( in that aspect only, mind).

No success so far, though. The newfangled look is too much: too wasteful of screen, too small figures... HALP~~~

Aaaaaany way, I run, this time, a Jinxed Gifted Luck2 Unarmed build for a refreshing experience, since I never found it before.

EDIT: also messing with graphic to create an icon for this. Because that fucking bearded man is killing me.

https://www.mediafire.com/file/0n30n6hz336qu21/fallout1in2.ico/file

 

[AdamReith]

Agree 100% with Lilura above, recently reinstalled OGBG from GOG and it has a completely different feel to the EEBG. EEBG is not like BG1 or BG2 but a third game that mashes bits of each together.

These misguided retrofits are damaging to the legacy of the game. BG1 was my first RPG and I remember wandering around candlekeep for hours not knowing what was going on, I guess that did some kind of permanent mental damage that makes me care about how it "feels".

Anyway, I shall be applying for my "BG purist faction" membership shortly.

 

[Saduj]

Wait, so the original Fallout was balanced around Ian blowing off the back of the VD’s head with regularity? And that happening less often is a bad thing?

I don’t believe either is possible to prove definitively but we do live in an age of miracles.......

 

[Latro]

codex is getting pretty soft nowadays, definitely not grognard anymore

 

[Corvinus]

codex is getting pretty soft nowadays, definitely not grognard anymore

Yes. Too many apologist faggots and insufferable newfags around. Time is due for a purge.

 

[AdamReith]

Well... To the "newfags"-

A whisper follows as you stride away, something vestigial and sinister that you recognize, but yet have never heard,

Spoiler

'You will learn...'

 

[Strange Fellow]

Purism and grognardism aren't the same thing at all.