Fallout Fallout et tu (Fallout to Fallout 2 engine conversion)

[Infinitron]

They're only talking about the Vault 13 invasion there (which is actually the final step of the city invasions - the idea is that the Mutants invade the cities one by one until they reach the Vault).

The confusion came from the fact that the game's official patch removed the invasions from the end slides*, so when years later modders created actual in-game invasions, people interpreted that as being "restored content that was removed in a patch".

*Actually, I'm not even sure this is correct. Those city invasions might still be in the end slides in Patch 1.1. Everybody's been using mods for so long that it's all mixed up and nobody's sure what's "authoritative" anymore. Maybe Lilura can help here, lol. The only thing that was definitely removed in the patch was the final Vault invasion.

 

[Lexx]

Yeah, there's quite a lot cut character stuff. But truth told, the dialog is mostly horrible. It's rough and unfinished and it's plain obvious why it was cut in the first place. Btw. that's why I kicked out the Followers spy quest that has been added by mods. It's just so, so badly written. To make it good, you'd have to rewrite it... like all of it up to the point where it makes more sense to design your own quest entirely.

The mutants dialog is ok-ish, because you barely interact with them anyway. Still, being caught sneaking through the invaded Boneyard to then be brought to the new CoC leader in the Library is pretty cool... shame it's just done the way it is and there is no interactivity other than "bring me to your boss".

About the ending slides:
I think the only "true" invasion ending slides in vanilla Fo1 were the one in the Hub and the Followers (bugged ending that would never change). The one from the Brotherhood, Shady Sands(?), and Junktown were never showing up as far as I can recall.

 

[Daedalos]

Somebody should reach out to Leonard and Tim again and clear up all this ! :D

 

[Cirtdear]

I've never put much attention to what this retard Lilura was saying but Fallout is my favourite game ever and when I'm reading that a noob like her says she's an expert on this game and spouts her retarded shit, I'm triggered. She has no arguments but she still argues, typical woman (or man pretending to be a woman).

*redacted*
[203 users on ignore list and counting]

The decline is overflowing. And Todd Howard is sending his victims to us. Why? Because of no tit pics, the killing off of modder's dreams, spouses not in kitchens, narcissistic blogs, and "authoritative" writings.
How do you think Tim Cain will touch us? Well men now we know. When there is no more room on the snowflake's ignorelists shitposters will browse the forum and trigger the womyns.

 

[laclongquan]

Who are you, Cirt dear?

 

[Cirtdear]

Who are you, Cirt dear?

One of the four habringers of redacted.

 

[Saduj]

GoG includes unofficial patches in their releases, pre-installed. Prime examples are Fallout 2, ToEE and VtMB. There are 100s of others. In this respect, pirates and Abandonware sites offer more authentic versions.



'Dex criticizes games considered to be Decline, yet games can be ignored. Thus, mods that are considered Decline can be criticized, too. And commentary.

It is you who are being dishonest.

Where is the example of GOG selling an unofficially modded game as another game? And the contention that the modders are somehow at fault if something as unlikely as that were to happen is a stretch, to put it kindly.

This particular mod exists largely as a basis to create other mods, as has been said. Nobody is saying that this is now the definitive Fallout experience. Mods are criticized here at times but in general people realize that they are free offerings and act accordingly. Outside of something that adds ridiculous content people don’t just jump all over mods for existing. In fact, it is not uncommon at all for Codexers to ask each other which mods to install when starting an old game for the first time. Sometimes the consensus is “play it unmodded first” but even then people don’t go on rants about the mere existence of a mod. Fallout 2 total conversions are pretty well received here.

Now if the modder starts posting a bunch of arrogant crap, that is another story but it hasn’t happened in this case.

 

[Silentstorm]

And that's the gist of it, some people do enjoy mods from the start, others play the game umodded first and others just don't care for mods at all.

Some people really just want the base experience, others just want mods that fix bugs or add some really minor stuff that complements the original, others like getting new stuff for replay value and don't care if it's completely silly, and all that, the point is, the originals are always just available to people and mods are there for people who don't mind having a different experience using the same engine from the original or whatever.

And even if the mods aren't as good as the original Fallout...who cares because some people just want new challenges and the same Fallout gameplay and aren't really expecting masterpieces most of the time, and i doubt this will be sold commercially, attempts at selling mods have usually failed.

 

[Lilura]

Saduj

Let's recap. You said "just ignore the mod's existence if you think it's Decline". And I asked, why doesn't the 'Dex ignore a game's existence if they think it's Decline? But you didn't answer.

Now, are you going to answer? Are you going to admit that you have double standards, and are a hypocrite?

Please note that my entire 6-year commentary is dedicated to upholding the legacies of the greatest RPGs, and that I've taken Beamdog to task with some success. For example, my unmonetized blog outstrips theirs on Google authority.

When some pleb types in questions related to the EEs, they sometimes land on my blog. And guess what my blog does: throws commentary on the original and the authoritative into their face.

The reason I took them to task is because they shoved BG, IWD and PS:T into the BG2 engine, thereby changing their natures.

Which is exactly what Fallout ET TU does.

Thus, I'm consistent.

Now, how would you like it if I formally criticized Fallout ET TU on my blog? Do you think someone as dedicated as me can't get their criticism high-ranked on Google?

 

[The_Mask]

Now, are you going to answer? Are you going to admit that you have double standards, and are a hypocrite?

Everyone else has their profile on full display, but not you. No double standards or unanswered questions there, no, sir.

Thus, I'm consistent.

You constantly delete your own posts when you get owned, and can get away with it. So, yes, you're very consistent.

Why... I'm tempted to quote your whole post, just so you can't do it again. Which I will.

Let's recap. You said "just ignore the mod's existence if you think it's Decline". And I asked, why doesn't the 'Dex ignore a game's existence if they think it's Decline? But you didn't answer.

Now, are you going to answer? Are you going to admit that you have double standards, and are a hypocrite?

Please note that my entire 6-year commentary is dedicated to upholding the legacies of the greatest RPGs, and that I've taken Beamdog to task with some success. For example, my unmonetized blog outstrips theirs on Google authority.

When some pleb types in questions related to the EEs, they sometimes land on my blog. And guess what my blog does: throws commentary on the original and the authoritative into their face.

The reason I took them to task is because they shoved BG, IWD and PS:T into the BG2 engine, thereby changing their natures.

Which is exactly what Fallout ET TU does.

Thus, I'm consistent.

Now, how would you like it if I formally criticized Fallout ET TU on my blog? Do you think someone as dedicated as me can't get their criticism high-ranked on Google?

 

[Silentstorm]

Again, mods changing the nature of a game is intended in many cases, even if it's only removing bugs, in fact, it's why some people even play mods to begin with, even on really great games, sometimes, people just want to try something a bit different or add more replay value to a game.

Also, reminder that this thread isn't about discussing Beamdog or GOG selling games with mods or what not, it's about a new mod for Fallout, a free one at that, and i doubt GOG would sell a freaking mod that is basically Fallout 1 in another engine and with clear differences, they have to realize their customers aren't that stupid or would notice the difference!

 

[Lilura]

To recap, these mods are first-order Decline: they are an affront to the legacies of great RPGs; an affront to the original, authentic and authoritative experience.

How?

Their target is the lowest common denominator, the casual'tard. They gain traction among sheeple by promoting ease-of-use, feature-bloat and eye-candy.

Through their promotion, the original is devalued by propaganda such as "It's unbalanced!", but the truth is that balance is not desirable over an original experience, even if unbalanced.

Such mods are not only engine transplants, but lazily include the patches of others: dirty compilations. We feel the need to take a bath after playing them.

Such mods are not concerned with legacies but rather with flogging a dead horse and seeing if they can get a few twitches out of it; the goal being recognition.

Modders gon mod, as the saying goes.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

About Mutant Invasions: Pretty sure the sliders were still in-game. Necropolis had it, so did The Hub and Followers. Hub and Followers were bugged and always showed up, no matter what you did. My memory might be fooling me, but I'm pretty sure Shady Sands had a mutant invasion ending slide. Shady I am sure, Junktown I am not. The Brotherhood was supposed to feature one, but it was removed, it was supposed to be part of a quest where you find a spy there, and if you never found the spy, the Mutants take it over.

Further thoughts about Mutant invasions: Yeah there were three timers. Water Chip Timer, Vault Invasion Timer and Mutant Invasion Timers for the cities. Necropolis was the only one which actually kept the actual mutant invasion in-game. AFAIK, you could stop the Necropolis invasion, I think you had to destroy the Military Base before the date of the invasion, or destroy it and then visit Necropolis. I think Set actually gives you a reward for doing that. That, or killing The Master. Either one, someone correct me.

Vault Invasion Timer was also decreased if you sent the caravan to Vault 13. So yeah, by increasing the timer for the first quest, you decreased the timer of the second one. That was actually very clever. I don't remember what it did after the patch which removed the Vault Invasion Timer, I think it actually brought it back.

Honestly, I thought the problem of Mutant Invasions is that they are a bad timer. You have abso-fucking-lutely no idea this Timer and Mutant Invasions are a thing, unless you run into Necropolis invasion, but that was a bad timer by itself. Its pretty much meta-gaming.

If you asked me how it would better re-done, I would make it so that the Mutant Invasions timer only kick in after the Water Chip quest ends. This is because, according to that ghoul guy hiding behind a bookshelf after Necropolis invasion, the Super Mutants are after You, The Vault Dweller. Further, I would engineer a way to make it so that the player can know that timer in-game somehow. Say, intercepting mutant transmissions using that radio carried by the dead mutant of the Missing Caravans quest (I can't believe I remember this guy carries one). Furthermore, I would make it so that its possible to speed up or delay the mutant invasion timers. We know you can speed up the Vault Invasion by using the services of the Children, and using the Water Caravan for Vault 13.

(I would also make the Super Mutants in general far more powerful, they're pretty wimpy without Plasma Rifles if you ask me. Heck, correcting the ridiculous laser resistances would make them a lot more badass, because while Gat Lasers are harmless at 90% Laser RES, they would be a total terror at lower levels of resistances. This would also make The Master a lot more credible and dangerous as a Final Boss).

Hmmmmm... I wonder if increasing Super Mutant and Nightkin Numbers would work as a way to represent the results of the invasions in-game? So encounters with Super Mutant/Nightkin patrols get harder and harder, and Mariposa and the Cathedral get more mutants/nightkin. If a city is invaded, the Encounter Table gets replaced with mutant encounters, floaters and centaurs, and maybe keeping the odd raiders/gang and monster encounters.

Cities are getting destroyed left and right, and your enemies keep increasing in numbers and appearing everywhere. I think that could make the end-game pretty frenetic, if done right.


Btw I find it kinda funny that while the Followers have an ending, Boneyard itself (or Adytum) has none. So to date we have no idea what happened there. Did Vault Dweller do the Regulators' dirty job and murdered the Blades? Did the Blades go in by themselves and shot the Regulators up? Did the Vault Dweller help the Blades and joined in their attack? Did the Vault Dweller deliver the tape to Zimmerman and then destroyed the Regulators themselves? Did the status quo keep up? Was Adytum invaded by Mutants?

No one knows, no one even has any idea, not even in New Vegas there was a peep about what happened to Adytum. About all we know is that the bugged "Followers survive" ending is canon, the Gun Runners moved from Boneyard and that's it. Not a peep about Adytum.

 

[Lilura]

Also, reminder that this thread isn't about discussing Beamdog ... it's about a new mod for Fallout

We don't need your reminders, you monkey. But there is an inarguable parallel that can be drawn between Fallout ET TU and the EEs.

and i doubt GOG would sell a freaking mod that is basically Fallout 1 in another engine and with clear differences, they have to realize their customers aren't that stupid or would notice the difference!

GoG will approve any fixpack or mod if they think it'll drive sales or make it easier for 'tards to install games (thereby driving sales). GoG are not interested in preserving legacies. They've already bundled Fallout 2, ToEE and VtMB with mods. This is why I've written GoG off even though they linked to my retrospectives in their editorials: they are unscrupulous leeches, and cucks.

 

[Saduj]

Let's recap. You said "just ignore the mod's existence if you think it's Decline". And I asked, why doesn't the 'Dex ignore a game's existence if they think it's Decline? But you didn't answer.

Now, are you going to answer? Are you going to admit that you have double standards, and are a hypocrite?

One is a commercial product and the other is something a hobbyist created in their free time in hopes that others will enjoy it for free. It isn't a double standard to treat the two differently because they are not the same thing. And in general, people are forgiving in their judgement when someone offers them something for free but feel insulted when someone wants to take their money in exchange for garbage.

The reason I hadn't responded to that sooner isn't because your apples to oranges comparison was some kind of "gotcha". I read the post and it didn't resonate as something that required explanation because the answer seems like common sense.

Thus ends this episode of "Things I Should Never Have to Explain to Anyone".

 

[laclongquan]

But there is an inarguable parallel that can be drawn between Fallout ET TU and the EEs.

The biggest difference between a total conversion project and EEs is the clearly lack of amateurish writings they insert into the original game. Dear god!

Writings is the most fluff thing there is in a game, yet if you fuck it up, no amount of work can fix it. Unlike codes or gameplay.

 

[Lilura]

One is a commercial product and the other is something a hobbyist created in their free time in hopes that others will enjoy it for free.

The principle and mentality are the same, you monkey. The fact that one makes money and the other doesn't is irrelevant.

And anyway, I threw you a softball: the 'Dex has a long tradition of criticizing mods, too. Just because something's free, doesn't mean it's auto-good and above questioning, criticism or write-off.

 

[Daedalos]

I wonder what fans of New Vegas would think of the purism approach, or arcanum, or bloodlines? lols!

Borderline unplayable games in their original state and that's just the technical bugs and aspects, the unfinished parts and content notwithstanding. Mods for said games have been a godsend on earth.

It's been a really long time since I've come across a game that didn't at least have ONE good tasteful mod that improved upon the original without tampering with the vision.

 

[Lord_Potato]

One is a commercial product and the other is something a hobbyist created in their free time in hopes that others will enjoy it for free.

The principle and mentality are the same, you monkey. The fact that one makes money and the other doesn't is irrelevant.

And anyway, I threw you a softball: the 'Dex has a long tradition of criticizing mods, too. Just because something's free, doesn't mean it's auto-good and above questioning, criticism or write-off.

Mods should be criticized - after you played them. Criticizing without playing them is not commentary. It's bullshitting and posturing.

 

[Latro]

One is a commercial product and the other is something a hobbyist created in their free time in hopes that others will enjoy it for free.

The principle and mentality are the same, you monkey. The fact that one makes money and the other doesn't is irrelevant.

And anyway, I threw you a softball: the 'Dex has a long tradition of criticizing mods, too. Just because something's free, doesn't mean it's auto-good and above questioning, criticism or write-off.

Mods should be criticized - after you played them. Criticizing without playing them is not commentary. It's bullshitting and posturing.

It's not a mod in the sense that it's an original campaign, it's an engine-port; your rebuttal is besides the point at best. There's nothing to play or judge like Fallout Resurrection or whatever, this is why Lilura is asking for a substantial change-log to pick apart.

It's been a really long time since I've come across a game that didn't at least have ONE good tasteful mod that improved upon the original without tampering with the vision.

All subjective, which is once again Lilura's point. Daedalos just opens his mouth to accept "whatever improves without tampering with the vision", without actually telling us what that means. Bug-fixes? Balance changes? etc etc

 

[RoBoBOBR]

On top of everything, this mod requires you to have a regular F1 and F2 installations, it lives in its own folder and does not modify or change those installations. So after installing the mod, you still have both F1 and F2 to play if you want to.

 

[Daedalos]

One is a commercial product and the other is something a hobbyist created in their free time in hopes that others will enjoy it for free.

The principle and mentality are the same, you monkey. The fact that one makes money and the other doesn't is irrelevant.

And anyway, I threw you a softball: the 'Dex has a long tradition of criticizing mods, too. Just because something's free, doesn't mean it's auto-good and above questioning, criticism or write-off.

Mods should be criticized - after you played them. Criticizing without playing them is not commentary. It's bullshitting and posturing.

It's not a mod in the sense that it's an original campaign, it's an engine-port; your rebuttal is besides the point at best. There's nothing to play or judge like Fallout Resurrection or whatever, this is why Lilura is asking for a substantial change-log to pick apart.

It's been a really long time since I've come across a game that didn't at least have ONE good tasteful mod that improved upon the original without tampering with the vision.

All subjective, which is once again Lilura's point. Daedalos just opens his mouth to accept "whatever improves without tampering with the vision", without actually telling us what that means. Bug-fixes? Balance changes? etc etc

Tampering with original vision would mean something along the lines of content altering changes, for instance story changes, writing, main and big side quests and so on.
I know most fallout mods does feature cut content and restored content, and I think you should approach that with caution. That isn't to say, that restored content can't be great, because it absolutely can.
There can be various reasons for the cuts to content, most of all time and polish, things that modders can perfect. But obviously you lack the final opinion of the orginal creators, so theres that.

Adding cut content that was obviously finished, but just never got implemented, is fine with me, and sometimes even the orignal devs chime in, and basically give their unofficial blessing to restore the content because they didnt have the time and ressources to do so. It all depends on what the material is, of course.

I can accept balance changes, if the vanilla balance was so horrid, that changes actually does improve the game. The same goes for most other stuff.

Bugfixes and Quality of Life changes I straight up applaud, because it makes the game just better without little negatives. More playable, fluid and just a better experience overall. There are numerous examples of this, new vegas, arcanum, fallout, bloodlines and so on.

 

[Silentstorm]

Besides, even if it's not the original and official version, that is ALWAYS available if you really don't want patches and mods, some people just hate bugs so much they quickly install patches even if it's their first time playing a game, and really, complaining about people wanting to play a less broken game feels weird.

And yes, Quality Of Life changes can depend, sometimes it may not be as good as the original, but maybe the modder and the people getting the mod didn't like that aspect of the original to begin with, and thus they changed it without enforcing their version on anyone else aside from making it downloadable.

And sometimes people just want crazy versions because they think it's funny, some of Skyrim's famous mods like Thomas The Train Engine appearing can attest to that, and i am pretty sure people know it's nowhere near close to the original version, but people just like the idea of Thomas being in a fantasy world fighting the Dragonborn, is it the original experience?

Nope, no way, are the people modding it caring about that, nah, they're just having fun, which is what mods, aside from ones restoring content or fixing bugs, are about, giving something else to a game to provide more fun for some people.

 

[Haba]

Now, how would you like it if I formally criticized Fallout ET TU on my blog? Do you think someone as dedicated as me can't get their criticism high-ranked on Google?

Hallo? Moderation? Hallo? Is this what Codex is those days?

 

[Lord_Potato]

Hallo? Moderation? Hallo? Is this what Codex is those days?

The Codex as whole? Nah. Lilura and her sycophants are a special case.