So, System Shock 2....oh the horror!

[Darth Roxor]

ah, the nostalgia meme

 

[Master]

GentlemanCthulhu
I like Prey a lot, to the point that I've completed it (including the really good expansion) multiple times, but IMO it doesn't hold a candle to SS2. The oozing atmosphere of helplessness and mystery of SS2 is unmatched. While I can say that SS2 is a survival horror game, Prey didn't elicit similar feelings to me. It's a good game in its own regard but pales in comparison with SS2.

Well it's subjective you know. I don't have any nostalgia for SS2. I went into it for the first time in 2017 with current day biases. Its atmosphere failed to capture me with its lowpoly modes and constantly blaring music. I mean... what atmosphere? Sure, it gets better if you turn down the music all the way but that's hardly a solution. Not saying the game is bad. It's just not for me.

Its not supposed to scare you with gfx or sound. Those are just nice additions, and basically pathetic crutches if you dont have the gameplay. The main thing here are the mechanics, basically constant recource drainage. But you need to play longer (past the tutorial) for it to show.

And the music like the game is not of the slow ass, "oh so spooky" variety that you seem to look for, but of impending head exploding tension kind.

 

[Egosphere]

I somewhat agree about the ss2 music, though. Some levels have the music working against them, atmosphere-wise.

 

[Dodo1610]

Anyone who dares to criticize System Shock 2'soundtack should be banned


If this doesn't make you feel anxious than I don't know what else will.

System Shock 2 still works mechnicly and even visually it looks nice for a game from 99.

 

[Jasede]

The guy who made that made the Game of Thrones music, by the way.

 

[Master]

I somewhat agree about the ss2 music, though. Some levels have the music working against them, atmosphere-wise.

Well there was one "spooky" track, when you get near the basketball court.

 

[Master]

The guy who made that made the Game of Thrones music, by the way.

And also for Warcraft movie

 

[octavius]

Music has no place in a first person "immersive sim".
Ambient sounds, and the sounds of enemies is all you need.

 

[Nano]

Music has no place in a first person "immersive sim".

That's just ridiculous. The music was more subtle in Thief, but music is a prominent and hard-hitting part of every other Looking Glass immersive sim. Same goes for Deus Ex; like, hello, that game's soundtrack is iconic.

 

[RoSoDude]

Not sure where else to put this, but I released a balance modification for SS2 that may interest some of you. Really, it was the perfect time to start modding SS2 -- not the lockdown so much as the fact that NewDark 2.48 has insane potential for modding. You could make edits to the object hierarchy via DML injection before, but now you can also create new objects, metaproperties, and stims, as well as write custom scripts with the robust squirrel scripting extension that all get loaded at runtime. It's extremely powerful stuff. Anyway, here's the mod:

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=11194

System Shock 2 - Rebalanced Skills and Disciplines v1.00
by RoSoDude

SS2-RSD aims to rebalance the game's RPG systems and provide more meaningful differentiation in character development. Highlights include new repairable batteries and prisms, a rearranged Heavy skill weapon progression with the Stasis Field Generator as the starter weapon, adjusted tech skill requirements and weapon statistics, reduced unlock costs for the situational Tier 5 psionic disciplines, and a handful of tweaks to resource distribution in the maps to support the reworked skills and allow for more diverse equipment choices. The Energy skill retains its natural synergy with Maintenance, while Heavy is more closely tied to Repair and Exotic to Research. Standard weapons retain their potency and versatility from SS2Tool/SCP, but require modification to reach their potential and must be managed more carefully to conserve ammo and weapon condition. Maintenance tools are less effective on weapons with high skill requirements, French-Epstein devices no longer obviate investment into Modify, and not all organs can be researched at skill level 1. Low-tier psionic disciplines are less potent at low PSI, while the highest tier is more affordable. Replicator prices are higher on Hard but lower on Impossible, and the nanite cost to use Surgical Units now scales with difficulty. Most important of all, the Laser Rapier has its ambient buzzing volume restored from vanilla.

SS2-RSD is built for SCP Beta 4 (and hopefully beyond), which is probably required. All changes are made via DML, NVScript, and Squirrel Script for maximum compatibility with other mods, with no edits to gamesys or mis files. Load SS2-RSD above SCP with Blue Mod Manager. Recommended for use alongside SS2 Repairman, but should be loaded higher in priority as SS2-RSD overwrites one of its scripts. Requires SS2 v2.48 patch or above. Not compatible with Secmod.

 

[DraQ]

I have recently watched some LPs of SS2 that made me realize:

• How poorly designed a lot of mechanics is, especially combat and large parts of RPG systems
  
• How cringeworthy are some parts of the story
• How the game is essentially only kept afloat by its masterfully engineered atmosphere which in turn is a function of:
  • much maligned weapon degradation
  • scarcity
  • even more maligned respawns (seriously, pox on those who bitch about degradation/respawns and pox on all their houses)
    
  • audio logs
• How the game essentially uses very modern, cluttered environments
• How masterfully those environments are used to hide useful stuff
• That I might need to replay it

Has anyone made an immersive sim mod for SS2?

• Basic firearms no longer have minimum skill level (grunt anyone not being able to fire pistol/rifle - whether conventional or energy - is dumb).
• Weapon skills altered to make them still useful (look up some of my earlier posts on the matter)
• Shitty psi powers (Remote Electron Tampering anyone?) scrapped, redone or replaced
• Damage types rethought, reassigned (to weapons - for example rapier and laser should burn or explode organics) and rebalanced,
  Possibly some weapons effectively replaced (model retained, but mechanics and fluff rewritten)
  
  Spoiler

  • Rapier using power
  • Rapier and laser dealing incendiary or explosive (depending on mode) damage, mostly burning organics
  • Ordinary and AP bullets not being as effective against mechs (AP still being the choice when firing standard weapons)
    
  • Cyborgs getting more damage from AP and anti personnel stuff, but less from non-specialized
  • EMP rifle replaced with particle beam (energy damage, splash or penetrating modes)
  • SFG replaced by dual circut EMP/stunner (EMP and organic stun modes)
  • Fusion souped up to be fun and interesting to use
    
  • Crystal given bonuses based on user's current psi points, given secondary effects and souped up a bit against mechs and SHODAN (to balance rapier changes and Exo weapon class),
    seriously, just being a glorified club is mockery of having to spend exo and research on it
  • Localized pyrokinesis secondary effect retained and made explicit in fluff (for bashing mechs with shard if Psi+Exo) or effect shuffled to shard.
    
  • Worthy replacement of proxy 'nades
  • Transient cyber rig fuckery when exposed to EMP (think old Shock or nu Deus Ex)
  • Research costs reshuffled (Exo at 1, implants and organs high) to help decouple Exo and Rsr
  • Swarms dependent on not being hittable rather than damageable (most attacks pass through, most AoE still hitting)
• Fluff added to help explain SHODAN at Tau Ceti V (seriously, the original story goes full retard at this specific point)

 

[Semiurge]

Went in blind and apparently on the highest difficulty it's nearly impossible to beat Shodan without the psychic barrier. The Body of the Many area was nice and rumbly, and the security robots had deeper voices than the maintenance robots, just like Thief 2's combat bots

Never picked up the basketball

 

[Bigg Boss]

Every single time I try to play System Shock 2 I keep telling myself that I should be playing System Shock 1. I end up turning it off and playing neither. I think something died inside me.

 

[RoSoDude]

Really, it was the perfect time to start modding SS2 -- not the lockdown so much as the fact that NewDark 2.48 has insane potential for modding. You could make edits to the object hierarchy via DML injection before, but now you can also create new objects, metaproperties, and stims, as well as write custom scripts with the robust squirrel scripting extension that all get loaded at runtime. It's extremely powerful stuff.

I wrote an article expanding on this. As far as I'm concerned, the Enhanced Edition NightDive is working on is worthless since it won't support any of the advanced features of NewDark. Multiplayer schmultiplayer.

https://rosodudemods.wordpress.com/2020/04/27/devblog-3-system-shock-2-modding-with-newdark/

Also, 1.01 update for my mod, for those that care.

 

[Piotrovitz]

Yo, are there any good weapon rebalance mods?

Would like to do a X playthrough, but the fact that game gets piss easy once you get the assault rifle is bumming me out and putting off.

 

[RoSoDude]

Yo, are there any good weapon rebalance mods?

Would like to do a X playthrough, but the fact that game gets piss easy once you get the assault rifle is bumming me out and putting off.

The SS2Tool patch (included in Steam/GOG) does the following to weapon balance (some from ADaOB):

• Fixed Disruption Grenades not actually dealing the huge damage they were supposed to
• Decreased Assault Rifle base damage from 10 to 8
• Decreased Shotgun base damage from 8 to 7
• Added 10 incendiary damage to Fusion Cannon in addition to its 20 energy damage so it's guaranteed to deal at least 25-40 damage to all targets (DEATH setting 37.5-60)
• Halved Fusion Cannon blast radius on NORM mode so the user doesn't kill themselves constantly (was 10, compare to DEATH setting's 12)
• Increased Annelid Launcher projectile turn rate for better homing

Changes SCP makes to weapon balance (most retained from ADaOB):

• Fixed the EMP rifle not receiving proper damage bonuses from weapon modifications
• Fixed the EMP rifle's OVER setting dealing 3x less damage than intended. Was 10 NORM, 15 OVER (intended 10 NORM 45 OVER), now 10 NORM, 40 OVER
• Split EMP rifle and EMP grenade explosions in two so only half of the damage can go through walls
• Reworked grenades to not receive damage bonuses from skills or weapon modifications, deal rebalanced fixed damage values
• Small/Large Worm Beaker stack count increased from 4/8 to 6/12 (get 50% more worms from each beaker filled), adjusted recycle/psi transmutation costs accordingly
• Increased Viral Proliferator splash radius, added damage over time poison effect, reduced base damage from 15 to 10
• Increased Annelid Launcher clip size from 8 to 12
• Decreased Annelid Launcher degradation rate and break threshold
• Reduced Shotgun/Assault Rifle repair skill requirements from 3/4 to 2/3 (BOO!)
  
• Stasis Field Generator can now be used on turrets, security cameras, and psi reaver projections
• Fixed some weapons (an Assault Rifle, EMP Rifles) which would degrade but never break

Changes I made in SS2-RSD to weapon balance on top of these:

• Removed damage bonuses to wrench from STD skill
• Changed Pistol secondary fire to 2-round burst
• Changed Assault Rifle primary fire to 2-round burst (secondary fire is still automatic with 2-round burst minimum)
• Decreased STD weapon clip sizes and increased reload times
  • Pistol clip 12>8, 2x reload time
  • Shotgun clip 12>6, 1.5x reload time
  • Assault Rifle clip 36>24, 2x reload time
• "Fixed" shotgun 1.5x reload time when in TRIPLE mode
• Standardized all STD weapon class modifications
  • Modification Level 1 halves reload time and adds +10% damage
  • Modification Level 2 doubles clip size and adds another +15% damage
• Increased Shotgun TRIPLE mode damage bonus from 2x to 3x to match ammo consumption
• Doubled Assault Rifle degradation rate (equivalent to Pistol)
• Swapped Stasis Field Launcher and Grenade Launcher in Heavy skill tree
  • Stasis Field Generator requires HVY 1
  • Grenade Launcher requires STR3 HVY3
  • The player can now starts with the SFG instead of the GL and prisms are added to early maps and replicators
  • The player can now repair spent prisms at a much cheaper nanite cost than purchasing them at replicators
• Decreased Stasis Field Generator ammo usage from 4/8 to 2/4 in primary/alternate fire
• Increased Fusion Cannon ammo usage from 2 to 4
• Increased Fusion Cannon reload time by 4x
• Exotic weapons are now immune to weapon degradation
• Rebalanced Repair/Maintain/Modify requirements on weapons
  • Shotgun Repair: 2>3 (vanilla), Modify 1>2
  • Assault Rifle: Repair 3>4 (vanilla), Modify 2>3
  • Laser Pistol Maintain 1>2
  • Stasis Field Generator: Repair 6>2, Maintain 3>1, Modify 2>1
  • Grenade Launcher: Repair 2>3, Modify 1>3
  • Fusion Cannon: Repair 4>5
  • NOTE: Maintenance tools are now less effective on weapons with high skill requirements
• Added reload time to Stasis Field Generator, Viral Proliferator, Annelid Launcher
• Increased reload pitch on several weapons so they are only partially lowered out of view when reloading
  • Pistol, Shotgun, Assault Rifle, Grenade Launcher lowered less than before
  • Stasis Field Generator, Viral Proliferator, Annelid Launcher are now lowered when reloading
• Laser Pistols, Stasis Field Generators, and Grenade Launchers (both broken and working) can be found earlier, while Assault Rifles are found later
• (Upcoming 1.02 update) Removed special recoil/degradation status from all weapon pickups

 

[thesecret1]

Every single time I try to play System Shock 2 I keep telling myself that I should be playing System Shock 1. I end up turning it off and playing neither. I think something died inside me.

It's mostly what I've thought while playing SS2 as well. It wasn't a bad game, but... that's it? That's what everyone is talking about? I played SS2 shortly after finishing SS1, and it was like I jumped straight into a pool of decline. No matter how I looked at it, it seemed like massive casualization – gone was the intricate level design, gone were many of the actions you could take, even the difficulty seemed very significantly lower... SS2 had better graphics, obviously, and better UI (which was pretty shit in SS1 truth to be told), but those are minor things compared to what was lost.

 

[Bigg Boss]

I think it has a lot to do with System Shock not feeling anything like Deus Ex while System Shock 2 feels exactly like Deus Ex. Plus I played System Shock 1 when I was 8 or 9 and I didn't play System Shock 2 until I was in my mid twenties. I'll complete it some day, but I do prefer the style of the original. It gives me that Underworld feeling ya know? For obvious reasons.

 

[Arbiter]

SS2 feels less polished than Thief because it was built by a team of first time developers on a relatively small budget. They started development with an unfinished version of the Dark Engine. There were also changes in the design process, the game was pitched as a new IP and Shodan was tacked on later.

Still, the setting and mood of the game is great, I like it more than Deus Ex or Thief.

 

[Empary]

I finished System Shock twice, but i can't bring myselft to play sequel more than 3-4 hours

 

[Arbiter]

It's amusing that years later a watered down (pun intended) version of SS2 named Bioshock was marketed as an FPS for intelligent players.

 

[Empary]

It's amusing that years later a watered down version of SS2 named Bioshock was marketed as an FPS for intelligent players.

BUT MUH PIPE PUZZLES

 

[RoSoDude]

Every single time I try to play System Shock 2 I keep telling myself that I should be playing System Shock 1. I end up turning it off and playing neither. I think something died inside me.

It's mostly what I've thought while playing SS2 as well. It wasn't a bad game, but... that's it? That's what everyone is talking about? I played SS2 shortly after finishing SS1, and it was like I jumped straight into a pool of decline. No matter how I looked at it, it seemed like massive casualization – gone was the intricate level design, gone were many of the actions you could take, even the difficulty seemed very significantly lower... SS2 had better graphics, obviously, and better UI (which was pretty shit in SS1 truth to be told), but those are minor things compared to what was lost.

I quite like SS1, but this feels pretty reductive to me. SS2's levels are certainly less complex and mazelike than the first game's, but they're also populated with thoughtful encounters against more challenging and dynamic enemies. With a few notable exceptions (e.g. Cyborg Assassin, Autobomb) most of SS1's enemy roster just shuffles in place and hitscans the player. By contrast, SS2's hybrids will aggressively chase after you, monkeys and midwives will pin you down with energy projectiles and fend you off in melee attacks up close, Cyborg Assassins will run away to bait you into a spot where they can more effectively pelt you with shurikens, protocol droids fill the autobomb role with kamikaze rushes, the droids are massive tanks that box you into hallways and spam dangerous energy bolts, and we have actual turrets as static defenses instead of enemies that just behave like them. Enemies come in fixed placements, scripted ambushes, and dynamic respawn roaming so there's always a threat around the corner and you can easily get caught off guard while managing your inventory or hacking security. SS1 had all of this too, but aside from a few memorable encounters (like the mutant elevator ambush on Level 2, SHODAN's Death Machine on Level R, the Nice Jump ambush on Level 4, the Cyborg Assassins tucked away in sneaky places on Level 8), most of the combat runs together in my mind even after playing on the hardest difficulty settings. SS2 is filled with clever enemy setups, like the Maintenance Droid charging the Medsci hallway unexpectedly after you get the access keycode from Grassi, or the staggered bursting of Protocol Droids out of shipping crates in the Cargo Bays, or the dozen hybrid/midwife/assassin/spider ambushes I can think of throughout the game, or something as simple as a worm egg placed underneath a camera in Hydroponics A so you get trapped in a corner by the worm while trying to avoid the camera's sightlines. A lot of these are possible only because the level design has chokepoints that expect the player to enter and leave through a particular route.

That's all without getting into SS2's heightened focus on resource management, inventory selection, and character upgrades which result in vastly different approaches to each combat scenario depending on your other choices. SS1 has a sizeable weapon roster and some light inventory management on its own, but ammo and healing items are comparatively plentiful and most players will be relying on the same selection of gear as one another depending on their progression through the game. I'm also not sure what more you're looking for in the player's actions? The Von Braun lacks Citadel's secret wall panels and cyberspace is (happily) a thing of the past, but SS2 has plenty of interactivity beyond combat. Cameras are now tied to meaningful security systems, there's a bunch more to hack and repair than SS1 had with its grid and wire puzzles, there are alien artifacts to research with chemicals, and there's comparable platforming here and there. We're lacking SS1's roller skates and jet boots, but the suite of 35 psionic disciplines more than makes up for it. SS1's rearview mirror, headlamp, and night vision are all less interesting to me than SS2's implants, and I prefer SS2's armor system to the energy shield and envirosuit. I'll grant that SS1 had a more interesting patch system, as well as better use of darkness as a gameplay element. More initiative was also expected from the player in solving the progression riddles by finding audio logs and piecing together clues in SS1, while SS2 gives the player explicit directives, at least early on. But in terms of overall difficulty, were it not for some unfortunate discrepancies in balance that allow for significant metagaming I'd say SS2 on the hardest difficulty is quite a bit tougher than SS1 on its hardest settings, even factoring in the latter's 7 hour time limit.

What's funny is I actually think UI and graphics were strengths of SS1 compared to its sequel. Manually managing your interface in the heat of combat was often a greater source of tension than the enemy design itself in SS1 and led to some interesting simulated interactions with throwing grenades and reloading your guns, and I found the vibrant cyberpunk aesthetic of Citadel Station to be more fleshed out and unique than the rather barren hallways of the Von Braun, though the latter certainly establishes a menacing atmosphere of its own. Both games have their strong points, so it confuses me when people describe SS2 as this massively casualized product of decline when the likes of Bioshock exist.

 

[Semiurge]

No-one expects a beating with a crystal shard around the corner.

 

[RoSoDude]

I made another little mod for System Shock 2.

https://www.systemshock.org/index.php?topic=11204

System Shock 2 - Alarming Cameras (SCP Minimod) v1.00
by RoSoDude https://rosodudemods.wordpress.com/

This mod adds a new feature to the camera alarm dynamics in SCP:
-Unless the security grid is hacked, cameras activate the alarm when they are destroyed
-Remote Electron Tampering allows the player to circumvent destruction alarms for 5 seconds + 5 seconds per PSI
-The old alarm-shortening effect for Remote Electron Tampering has been removed

Requires SCP Beta 4 (and hopefully supports future versions). Overwrites psi power descriptions, so will minorly conflict with other mods that change those.