Mass Effect BioWare Montreal's Mass Effect: Andromeda - where element zero meets trisomy 21

[Reinhardt]

I don't hate it. ME2 was avatar of meh. Boring and forgetable. Dropped it halfway and never bothered again.

 

[not an artichoke]

I played ME2 all the way to the end. Ran into the Hoomun Reepah and I just stopped. And stared.

So. Effing. Stupid.

It makes NO SENSE AT ALL. NONE OF IT. Slurries of mushed up humans are being fed into this giant METAL monster for... what reason again? How does that help create anything? How is it energy efficient? Why are you making a giant bipedal robot thing in the first place? THAT SHOOTS LASERS OUT OF ITS EYES FFS

I ragequit and never looked back.

 

[aweigh]

ME2 is the only ME game I even halfway remember fondly and it was specifically because of the companion characters and suicide mission storyline.

I honestly can't remember ME 1 and ME 2 being that different in game play mechanics, although it's been years since I played ME 1. Both featured terrible combat mechanics, even worse than KOTOR.

EDIT: ME 2 is the one with female companion in skin-tight butt latex right? Fond memories indeed.

 

[aweigh]

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Even at the time of release people hated how BioWare stripped out features from the original game as opposed to fixing them. Although weirdly (or maybe not so weirdly given how people on the internet defend the crappy things they like) there was more defending some of that with stuff like: Oh, this or that sucked anyways...it's good thats gone instead of being made good. It was also very clear in Mass Effect 2 that the idea of what you do having a mass effect throughout the games wasn't going to be a thing when stuff like the Rachni Queens basically amounted to a note reminded you the Rachni Queens was a thing, and the Shadow Broker was just gone.

That said, them getting the shooting to be a little better for most people seemed to also go a long long way for some people on release. Although as a third person cover based shooter Mass Effect 2 was leagues behind earlier games from the same console cycle like Gears of War 1 & 2, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 1 & 2, and the Rainbow Six: Vegas games. Making it look even worse, ME2 comes out the same year as Vanquish; and that game seems to do everything Mass Effect wishes it'd done with the Vanguard class.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

I played ME2 all the way to the end. Ran into the Hoomun Reepah and I just stopped. And stared.

So. Effing. Stupid.

It makes NO SENSE AT ALL. NONE OF IT. Slurries of mushed up humans are being fed into this giant METAL monster for... what reason again? How does that help create anything? How is it energy efficient? Why are you making a giant bipedal robot thing in the first place? THAT SHOOTS LASERS OUT OF ITS EYES FFS

I ragequit and never looked back.

Clearly you're fighting that boss because:

It's just too bad BioWare didn't create a system conducive to that fight. One would imagine fighting a giant alien terminator to be something that's fun and really cool, but BioWare made it extremely boring and easy.

 

[Latelistener]

It makes NO SENSE AT ALL. NONE OF IT. Slurries of mushed up humans are being fed into this giant METAL monster for... what reason again?

Because Reapers found humans compatible for their original purposes (by Drew Karpyshyn's idea), but Mr. Hudson decided that he knows better, and threw away everything the first two games had, so it was never explained.
Instead we got synthetics who killed their own organic creators, and who roam the galaxy to kill even more organics, so they wouldn't be killed by their synthetics brethren.

 

[Kirkpatrick]

I liked the fact that you could be a victim of various options your enemies had in first Mass Effect. They very very often sabotaged your tech, or screwed with your biotics, or just used their biotic powers on you. Not to mention dreaded snipers, who easily one shot you, or the terrifying Krogans and Rachni, who will demolish you easily if you let them near. They also use immunity and other defensive options.

In Mass Effect 2, the enemies just shoot at you. If you go behind the cover, they just shoot the cover.

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Very few people (excepting those who were already predisposed to hate all BioWare games obviously) actually disliked Mass Effect 2 when it came out.

I liked it as a stand alone shooter, but it was really hard work to get through given the incredibly stupid plot and complete abandonment of everything ME1 had set up. The fact that I couldn't wipe out or co-opt Cerberus and go after the reapers was almost a ragequit level event. Who are these Collectors who just turned up with no warning? A minor enemy to distract me from the major enemy.

What was annoying is that ME1 had done all the hard work, and ME2 just had to continue the story. You'd think it would be easier just to keep on working towards a conclusion than rip up everything and start again. Of course, in hindsight ME2 seems like a work of genius compared to ME3, but that doesn't excuse the fact that things started going wrong almost immediately and never recovered.

Mechanics wise, I thought ME1 was fine, ME2 was better but not much better. As a RPG, ME1 was a poor one, ME2 wasn't one at all. However, ME1 created a distinctive uneasy atmosphere and a sense of space that neither sequel had. I still haven't finished ME3 after several attempts, and having seen the endings on youtube there's no reason for me to ever do so.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

Very few people (excepting those who were already predisposed to hate all BioWare games obviously) actually disliked Mass Effect 2 when it came out.

I liked it as a stand alone shooter, but it was really hard work to get through given the incredibly stupid plot and complete abandonment of everything ME1 had set up. The fact that I couldn't wipe out or co-opt Cerberus and go after the reapers was almost a ragequit level event. Who are these Collectors who just turned up with no warning? A minor enemy to distract me from the major enemy.

What was annoying is that ME1 had done all the hard work, and ME2 just had to continue the story. You'd think it would be easier just to keep on working towards a conclusion than rip up everything and start again. Of course, in hindsight ME2 seems like a work of genius compared to ME3, but that doesn't excuse the fact that things started going wrong almost immediately and never recovered.

Mechanics wise, I thought ME1 was fine, ME2 was better but not much better. As a RPG, ME1 was a poor one, ME2 wasn't one at all. However, ME1 created a distinctive uneasy atmosphere and a sense of space that neither sequel had. I still haven't finished ME3 after several attempts, and having seen the endings on youtube there's no reason for me to ever do so.

They didn't have a conclusion. They didn't know where anything they set up in the first game was going.

The oddest thing they abandoned was that atmosphere. That retro '80s Terminatoresque synth soundtrack over their Star Warsy setting was a really interesting mix, but they throw that out with ME2. It's the one thing the Mass Effect nailed and they stupidly left it by the wayside.

But then there's a lot that's odd about that series. Like how bare bones the armor system is, and how they lazily dropped it for your squad. Given how people like playing with that shit, you'd think they give you more options, like how something like Halo Reach does in multiplayer...but since it's an RPG actually have the different parts do things. Remember playing Mass Effect when it first came out and just wishing the armor system was like the customization Armored Core gives you. Then again when I originally played Mass Effect basically all I could think about was how I'd change most everything about it.

 

[fantadomat]

It makes NO SENSE AT ALL. NONE OF IT. Slurries of mushed up humans are being fed into this giant METAL monster for... what reason again?

Because Reapers found humans compatible for their original purposes (by Drew Karpyshyn's idea), but Mr. Hudson decided that he knows better, and threw away everything the first two games had, so it was never explained.
Instead we got synthetics who killed their own organic creators, and who roam the galaxy to kill even more organics, so they wouldn't be killed by their synthetics brethren.

Hudson should be thrown in front the hague court for his crimes against humanity! It is shame that they didn't finish the story of the first two games,it felt a lot more interesting,it had mystery in it.

 

[Atlantico]

The oddest thing they abandoned was that atmosphere. That retro '80s Terminatoresque synth soundtrack over their Star Warsy setting was a really interesting mix, but they throw that out with ME2. It's the one thing the Mass Effect nailed and they stupidly left it by the wayside.

It's because (I think) Bioware didn't know what they had, not at all. Mass Effect was a mild success on the Xbox and Bioware had no idea why.

Take the music for example, the music was mainly written by some guy who happened to be there, because they guy Bioware originally wanted to create the score wasn't available. Well guess which guy they hired for ME2? Go on. Guess. No, they did not hire the guy who made most of the music and defined the style for Mass Effect, but the other one who didn't really do anything in the first game and wanted orchestral "epic" score.

 

[Santander02]

[Instead we got synthetics who killed their own organic creators, and who roam the galaxy to kill even more organics, so they wouldn't be killed by their synthetics brethren.

 

[Drax]

ME1's story had potential, ME2 and onward it was all popamole shit non-story. That's mainly why I remember the first more fondly. Telepathic Ancient Ones in an eternal war that no one understands. Cool.

 

[Sykar]

So are ass effect 1 and 2 the only ones worth playing?

ME 1 is worth it only to get that sense of "what could have been". Everybody knows that a lot of the aspects of ME 1 were very flawed and raw. Instead of addressing the criticism properly, Bioderp just removed everything remotely criticized and turned it into a shitty popamole shooter with barely any RPG or real C&C elements left never mind the outright retarded retconning and castration of basically everything which could make actual space exploration fun if implemented well like the Mako. And the retards lapped it up.

ME 1 is one of those "what if" games.

 

[santino27]

So are ass effect 1 and 2 the only ones worth playing?

None are very good. ME1 was probably the best in terms of world building and lore and rudimentary RPG mechanics, but the combat sucked. ME2 had better combat but lost most of the RPG trappings, and the story sucked. ME3 was a flaming bag of crap. ME:A was... well, you've got 100 pages of posts on ME:A.

I don't get people that prefer ME1 to 2 because the later got rid of the RPG elements, Was ME1 such a great classic RPG that loosing said elements was some sort of blasphemy, a la Fallout->Fallout3? ME1 was a shitty RPG and a mediocre shooter, ME2 is a good shooter and not an RPG at all which honestly makes it a better game, the game focused on the one thing that it could do right and not bother being something it could never be. Story-line was equally cheesy Bioware fare in both but I found the one in 2 to be one hell of a lot less pretentious precisely because it didn't have this forced attempt at "epic" world building and just focused on the action, I like it in an dumb but fun action movie sort of way. As a plus for both games they were written before nuBio went full SJW so there's no blatant social pandering shoved on the player's faces like the tyranny scene or the strong independent lesbian elf in DAI.

From what I've seen of ME3 it tried a "please everyone" approach and failed miserably like such approaches usually do.

Nobody's saying ME1 was a classic. But it had potential, and instead of trying to fix its issues and building on the elements in the first that were at least halfway decent, ME2 instead jettisoned or dumbed down most of its RPG trappings, headed further down the path of extreeeeeeeme characters and romance simulator, and tried to reinvent itself as a shooter.

It's undeniable that ME2 was a better shooter than ME1. That didn't make it a GOOD shooter... just better than ME1. But they sacrificed a lot of what made the first game interesting (albeit flawed).

 

[Infinitron]

But then there's a lot that's odd about that series. Like how bare bones the armor system is, and how they lazily dropped it for your squad. Given how people like playing with that shit

As I've said before, the key to understanding the trajectory of the Mass Effect trilogy (and really BioWare as a whole) is that it was basically developed entirely B.S. (Before Skyrim)*.

Before Skyrim sold 20+ million copies and initiated the open world RPG craze, AAA developers didn't realize that people like "playing with that shit". They were moving away from RPG mechanics, they were all trying to jump on the Call of Duty bandwagon.

*Yes, ME3 technically came out afterwards, but by then it was too late to course correct.

 

[Santander02]

So are ass effect 1 and 2 the only ones worth playing?

None are very good. ME1 was probably the best in terms of world building and lore and rudimentary RPG mechanics, but the combat sucked. ME2 had better combat but lost most of the RPG trappings, and the story sucked. ME3 was a flaming bag of crap. ME:A was... well, you've got 100 pages of posts on ME:A.

I don't get people that prefer ME1 to 2 because the later got rid of the RPG elements, Was ME1 such a great classic RPG that loosing said elements was some sort of blasphemy, a la Fallout->Fallout3? ME1 was a shitty RPG and a mediocre shooter, ME2 is a good shooter and not an RPG at all which honestly makes it a better game, the game focused on the one thing that it could do right and not bother being something it could never be. Story-line was equally cheesy Bioware fare in both but I found the one in 2 to be one hell of a lot less pretentious precisely because it didn't have this forced attempt at "epic" world building and just focused on the action, I like it in an dumb but fun action movie sort of way. As a plus for both games they were written before nuBio went full SJW so there's no blatant social pandering shoved on the player's faces like the tyranny scene or the strong independent lesbian elf in DAI.

From what I've seen of ME3 it tried a "please everyone" approach and failed miserably like such approaches usually do.

Nobody's saying ME1 was a classic. But it had potential, and instead of trying to fix its issues and building on the elements in the first that were at least halfway decent, ME2 instead jettisoned or dumbed down most of its RPG trappings, headed further down the path of extreeeeeeeme characters and romance simulator, and tried to reinvent itself as a shooter.

It's undeniable that ME2 was a better shooter than ME1. That didn't make it a GOOD shooter... just better than ME1. But they sacrificed a lot of what made the first game interesting (albeit flawed).

ME1 was a effin xbawks console exclusive when it launched, anyone who saw "potential" in it back then was delusional.

 

[Assisted Living Godzilla]

As I've said before, the key to understanding the trajectory of the Mass Effect trilogy (and really BioWare as a whole) is that it was basically developed entirely B.S. (Before Skyrim)*.

Before Skyrim sold 20+ million copies and initiated the open world RPG craze, AAA developers didn't realize that people like "playing with that shit". They were moving away from RPG mechanics, they were all trying to jump on the Call of Duty bandwagon.

*Yes, ME3 technically came out afterwards, but by then it was too late to course correct.

They knew people liked playing with that shit, and if they didn't know they should have fucking knew; Diablo 2 is built on the loot grind of people playing with that shit, and that was a few years before the Mass Effect series even entered development. There were also other types of games where part of the draw was the customization. This is a big part of Gran Turismo. It was a lauded feature added in the 2004 Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas. (A game which one of the doctors called one of the best RPGs) It's a big aspect of the Armored Core series. It was big in those Need for Speed Underground games. Like I said before, back when I first played Mass Effect, back when it came out, I was left wishing it had an armor system along the lines of the the mech customization system found in Armored Core; something that let you mix and match a large number of armor parts, tune your armor, customize colors and patterns, and where you'd have to deal with stuff like weight and power supplies for extra stuff you wanted.

The funny thing is the very year Mass Effect comes out so does Halo 3 & Rainbow Six: Vegas 2, and both these games have customization. The Halo series is also at the height of its popularity at this time. In the case of Halo 3 it's just superficial, still, it should have been a sight to BioWare it was ok to really run with customization in Mass Effect 2.

 

[Infinitron]

Sure and you might as well mention Oblivion too, but none of those games were as big as Call of Duty. That's what the suits were fixated on at the time (it was also attractive because you could theoretically release a game like that every year)

 

[aweigh]

I think the reason why ME2 mechanics being simplified didn't bother me is because I would never consider a game like ME1 to be a real RPG anyway.

I mean just look at recent posts where ppl compare it to stuff like Squad Recon Game's shooty-squad mechanics and shit. If that comparison can be made, then by default = not an RPG.

 

[donkeymong]

ME2 is the only ME game I even halfway remember fondly and it was specifically because of the companion characters and suicide mission storyline.

I honestly can't remember ME 1 and ME 2 being that different in game play mechanics, although it's been years since I played ME 1. Both featured terrible combat mechanics, even worse than KOTOR.

EDIT: ME 2 is the one with female companion in skin-tight butt latex right? Fond memories indeed.

Retarded ammo "powers".Something that was that just equipment in the first game. No armor anymore, just shields. The dumb global cooldown.
The retarded "protection" system, where shields and armor of enemies disabled biotic and tech powers, even hacking...
The ammo system ,a waste of time, too plentyfull to matter anyway...
So, yes, no difference in gameplay mechanics at all...

 

[Tom Selleck]

Is there like, an easy reading version of all of the dropped ideas they had for future games post ME1, like either from Drew Karpysysysyshsysn and there was some other little French nerd, I think, too.

Like how the Reapers were farting out Dark Matter or something?

 

[MRY]

I liked ME2 more than ME1. I thought ME1 did a really good job of synthesizing lots of space opera materials into the setting, but the game itself wasn't much fun. ME2 was fun and had neat graphics, some cool plot moments. I liked the upgrade system well enough for what it was. It wasn't much of an RPG. The things I primarily disliked about it were the dating sim aspect (having to walk around the ship talking to all your companions) and the plot -- it was basically the first third/half of a plot. It's not a "middle episode" issue -- the problem is that the game reboots you at no party, no powers, so it's basically like a first episode, but after you spend forever gathering your party before venturing forth, the actual venturing part is like 10% of the total gameplay. And obviously the finale is absurd in a million ways. The end result was lame enough that I never bothered to try ME3.

 

[aweigh]

I'm not invested enough to make proper arguments defending my opinions, so I'll just say this:

Whoever thinks ME games, including ME1, are in way shape or form "mechanically deep" enough that they warrant disscusion or dissection is, IN MY OPINION, completely fucking wrong.

ME1 and ME2 (putting aside ME3 because that one has not even the ghost of an RPG element) are shooty-shooty games where the enjoyment that an RPG grognard may derive will come from the dialog reactivity and the story (completely juvenile and mediocre sci-fi shit that is below even SyFy channel standards of quality) and the companions, which much to everybody's surprise were actually p. good, and are the main reason everybody and their mother remembers ME2 fondly, much more so than ME1.

On the flip side, anyone who is lamenting some sort of mechanics-driven experience lost due to "dumbing down" for ME2 and onwards is living on the moon and I question their taste and RPG credentials because these are games that are less mechanically complex than the majority of JRPGs.

"ME2 had dumbed down enemy AI!" No, ME1 had shitty enemy AI and so does ME2. It is impossible for the difference between the enemy AI in those games to be discernibly meaningful enough to reach a level where an experienced RPG player would consider them worth taking seriously enough to ruminate over.

"ME2 did away with exploration! The MAKO!!!" You are wrong and retarded. Mako is dumb, that is not real exploration. I am sorry for you.

"ME2 completely trashed all the great setting up made by that cool ME1 plot/story!"

Wrong. Wrong and fuck you for thinking that. All ME games, ALL OF THEM, are just asinine hack writing. Anyone who actually got invested in this tripe needs to check for Zika virus.

From the very beginning of ME1's pre-release hype train all the way to the actual enjoyment of ME1 by Codexers the thrust of the narrative was centered around playing ME1 (and later ME2) in a completely ironical fashion similar to MST3K'ing a very bad B-Movie.

Shephard collar-grabbing memes were born on the Codex!