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Cyberpunk 2077 Pre-Release Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Infinitron

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Harthwain isn't the first person to talk about how Cyberpunk 2077 was originally going to be some sort of faithful tabletop adaptation before it got dumbed down. It sounds to me like another gamer urban legend, along the lines of Mass Effect's indoctrination theory and Dragon Age Inquisition being a repurposed MMO. Pointing at conspiracy when the truth is likely more banal.

The old Cyberpunk 2077 blog is available on the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20171231202549/http://cyberpunk.net/blog Take a look and decide for yourselves what they were they talking about.
 
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Harthwain

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The old Cyberpunk 2077 blog is available on the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20171231202549/http://cyberpunk.net/blog Take a look and decide for yourselves what they were they talking about.
Useful. Thanks.

As for it being the conspiracy - I said it's just my speculation, based on the news we got and contrasted with what was promised (as it was supposed to be faithful to PnP CP2020 mechanics). The goalposts keep getting moved all the time, sadly. Remember how we were supposed to get nine classes?
The production of REDs is supposed to refer to it [PnP CP2020] not only by the name or the universe itself, but also by the gameplay mechanics and elements such as playable character classes. As for the latter, we are supposed to receive nine classes / roles taken from this paper system: Cop, Corporate, Fixer, Media, Netrunner, Nomad, Rockerboy, Solo and Techie [...]
Here is the official answer to that, by no one else than Mike Pondsmith himself:
Here’s what Pondsmith had to say when asked by GameReactor if character classes from the board game (specifically odd ones like journalist, rockstar, and executive) would be in CD Projekt RED’s upcoming title.

“Yes, you can. They’re all going to be there, but I can tell you’re going to find some surprises about how we’ve done it and I think you’re really going to like it. There’s a lot of subtlety going on there. Adam (Kiciński, CD Projekt RED’s President and co-CEO) and I spent literally like a whole week messing with the ways of implementing that, so you get the most feel for your character.”
"They are all going to be there, but I can tell you’re going to find some surprises about how we’ve done it [...]". Who's going to bet that they will be in the game as NPCs, but not as playable classes? But somehow "we're really going to like it". Color me skeptical.

On combat:
The gameplay mechanics are completely different in the paper version and would not work in a video game, because it would be just terribly boring. The main problem is that in the original everything is based on the roll of the dice, and when you think about the Cyberpunk universe, you think about shooting and action with a large number of explosions. And that doesn't match your dice roll. That's why we want to create an action-based combat system.
But it got worse than just "shooting and action with a large number of explosions". Because you can make an action game that can be closer to CP2020 by making combat feel lethal, both to you and your enemies, which would in turn make combat a dangerous proposition for less-combat oriented classes.

The end result we all know from the gameplay. Enemies are bullet sponges and can take a few bullets to the naked head (something even zombies can't do in most games). Even some journalists realized that and compared it - fittingly, in my opinion - with The Division. You can also heal in combat. Don't tell me you're being faithful to the source material when you could've gone anywhere in-between ARMA and wherever you've decided to be.

Oh, and to top if off you're pretty much a Solo with access to a skill tree of a Netrunner and Techie to boot. So forget about creating your own class. Even the character creation screen is poor. We get one question concerning our past, who our idol is, can pick up our body's look, appearance and attributes. It's pretty basic and on par with most cRPGs that don't claim to be faithful to their PnP roots, and these cRPGs that are faithful to their PnP roots (or are inspired by them) often feature a lot more stuff. I guess you could make an argument that it worked out for Deus Ex, but I expected to have more freedom in this area since, you know, it's supposedly based on PnP CP2020.
 

Sam Ecorners

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Listened to the top tracks on Spotify for the bands announced

Death Grips - great choice, very fitting
ASAP Rocky - shitty modern mumble rap
Gazelle Twin - somewhat generic edgy electronica chick, but I can see it working for cyberpunk
Grimes - perfect fit for a rockerboy diva
Ilan Rubin - Nine Inch Nails drummer and multiinstrumentalist. I have faith in him
Richard Devine - decent electronica, i see him as a soundtrack collaborator more than anything
Nina Kraviz - just some techno, i guess you need something for the clubs
Deadly Hunta - Rasta Dub ting, guess the haitans will listen to him
RAT BOY - British indie rock of sorts, don't see how it fits
Tina Guo - One of those cellists with an electronic instrument. meh
 

Squid

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Joined
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Messages
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Unfortunately, nothing on ExMil would make it into a product like CP2077. If it's something from a previous album they're likely to use something from The Money Store or write something new. I'd imagine Hacker seems like the obvious choice. Maybe I've Seen Footage?
 

Catacombs

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Unfortunately, nothing on ExMil would make it into a product like CP2077. If it's something from a previous album they're likely to use something from The Money Store or write something new. I'd imagine Hacker seems like the obvious choice. Maybe I've Seen Footage?

Tachyon or Spread Eagle during a fight sequence would be :incline:
 

Grotesque

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Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
The old Cyberpunk 2077 blog is available on the Wayback Machine: https://web.archive.org/web/20171231202549/http://cyberpunk.net/blog Take a look and decide for yourselves what they were they talking about.
Useful. Thanks.

As for it being the conspiracy - I said it's just my speculation, based on the news we got and contrasted with what was promised (as it was supposed to be faithful to PnP CP2020 mechanics). The goalposts keep getting moved all the time, sadly. Remember how we were supposed to get nine classes?
The production of REDs is supposed to refer to it [PnP CP2020] not only by the name or the universe itself, but also by the gameplay mechanics and elements such as playable character classes. As for the latter, we are supposed to receive nine classes / roles taken from this paper system: Cop, Corporate, Fixer, Media, Netrunner, Nomad, Rockerboy, Solo and Techie [...]
Here is the official answer to that, by no one else than Mike Pondsmith himself:
Here’s what Pondsmith had to say when asked by GameReactor if character classes from the board game (specifically odd ones like journalist, rockstar, and executive) would be in CD Projekt RED’s upcoming title.

“Yes, you can. They’re all going to be there, but I can tell you’re going to find some surprises about how we’ve done it and I think you’re really going to like it. There’s a lot of subtlety going on there. Adam (Kiciński, CD Projekt RED’s President and co-CEO) and I spent literally like a whole week messing with the ways of implementing that, so you get the most feel for your character.”
"They are all going to be there, but I can tell you’re going to find some surprises about how we’ve done it [...]". Who's going to bet that they will be in the game as NPCs, but not as playable classes? But somehow "we're really going to like it". Color me skeptical.

On combat:
The gameplay mechanics are completely different in the paper version and would not work in a video game, because it would be just terribly boring. The main problem is that in the original everything is based on the roll of the dice, and when you think about the Cyberpunk universe, you think about shooting and action with a large number of explosions. And that doesn't match your dice roll. That's why we want to create an action-based combat system.
But it got worse than just "shooting and action with a large number of explosions". Because you can make an action game that can be closer to CP2020 by making combat feel lethal, both to you and your enemies, which would in turn make combat a dangerous proposition for less-combat oriented classes.

The end result we all know from the gameplay. Enemies are bullet sponges and can take a few bullets to the naked head (something even zombies can't do in most games). Even some journalists realized that and compared it - fittingly, in my opinion - with The Division. You can also heal in combat. Don't tell me you're being faithful to the source material when you could've gone anywhere in-between ARMA and wherever you've decided to be.

Oh, and to top if off you're pretty much a Solo with access to a skill tree of a Netrunner and Techie to boot. So forget about creating your own class. Even the character creation screen is poor. We get one question concerning our past, who our idol is, can pick up our body's look, appearance and attributes. It's pretty basic and on par with most cRPGs that don't claim to be faithful to their PnP roots, and these cRPGs that are faithful to their PnP roots (or are inspired by them) often feature a lot more stuff. I guess you could make an argument that it worked out for Deus Ex, but I expected to have more freedom in this area since, you know, it's supposedly based on PnP CP2020.


I summon the retard Prime Junta to explain it to you why this game is a proper RPG game because you can also sneak and kill baddies with hi-tech "magic"
 

Harthwain

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Dec 13, 2019
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4,803
I summon the retard Prime Junta to explain it to you why this game is a proper RPG game because you can also sneak and kill baddies with hi-tech "magic"
I found it very funny when CDPR had to publicly claim CP77 is an RPG, because everyone else was calling it a shooter.

That's not the point of contention though. If CDPR were to create a game inspired by Cyberpunk subgenre I'd simply shrug and say: "Whatever" (RPG or no RPG). But when you profess love to CP2020 and its mechanics - many times over - there are certain expectations, especially when you claim to remain faithful to it in your attempt at adaptation.
 

undecaf

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Messages
3,517
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2
shooting and action with a large number of explosions
Im no Cyberpunk PnP expert, but from what ive seen run on the tabletop, this is the opposite of cyberpunk rpg. Unless your Game Master is like 12 years old

That was my idea too when I was playing it.

But then, CDPR seems to have this thing that they advertise for "mature audiences" but design for youth on varied levels far away from that "mature". A solid way to sell your product, perhaps, but...it smells.
 

Danikas

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Jun 15, 2017
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zs4usz5u1m541.jpg
 
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Modron

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May 5, 2012
Messages
10,056
It will be interesting to see how much they take advantage of the vertical and how many buildings are accessible. Witcher 3 was quite impressive in the later, even if you didn't have a lot a of reasons to enter every house unless you were going truly autistic looting every container in game.
 

Mebrilia the Viera Queen

Guest
https://www.mcvuk.com/building-the-...yberpunk-2077-and-moving-on-from-the-witcher/

Building the future on pen and paper: CD Projekt Red on Cyberpunk 2077 and moving on from The Witcher

Headshot-Richard-1-e1575631079123-125x180.jpg

Richard Borzymowski, CD Projekt Red

As the upcoming launch of Cyberpunk 2077 looms large in the distance, currently slated for April 2020, it’s hard not to wonder if CD Projekt Red is feeling the pressure. The studio has a stellar reputation, following its astronomical success with The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt – a hard act for Cyberpunk to follow, which also marks the studio’s first title outside the fantasy novels from which Geralt sprung.

Cyberpunk 2077 is set in a dark future that could hardly be more different from its previous work. It is another adaptation, though, this time of the cult pen-and-paper RPG Cyberpunk 2020 created by Mike Pondsmith way back in 1988. And that presents a new set of challenges and opportunities for what is the most highly-anticipated title of 2020.

While adapting Andrzej Sapkowski’s fantasy book series for The Witcher was a comparatively smooth transition, adapting a pen-and-paper RPG into an open world game with real-time combat was more taxing, as the game’s producer, Richard Borzymowski explains: “The thing is, every pen-and-paper RPG is essentially turn-based. It’s dice throwing, right? That doesn’t really work when there’s a zillion bullets flying across the screen.”

“We’ve stuck to as much of the original Cyberpunk 2020 as we can, but to keep things enjoyable we’ve had to change some things to make it adapt well into the video game format. From things like character attributes to guns – a lot of it is taken from the core book. We’ve added some new ones, of course, but we’re staying true to what Mike Pondsmith created. It was really important to us to remain faithful to the original, because we know there’s this community of Cyberpunk fans that have been out there since the 1980s. We’re not going to be exploiting the franchise, we’re not going out there saying ‘Hey, this is our game, it’s entirely unconnected to whatever it was before.’ We’re here to enhance Cyberpunk, alongside Mike Pondsmith.”

While stepping into an established franchise with pre-existing fans can be intimidating, as Borzymowski notes, it also allows CD Projekt Red to be more open with fans about what to expect.

“Very often I think, not just in games, but in books and movies too, you see promises being made without actually showing anything behind it – and then you’re building hype essentially based on just your words.

Even if the product is very good, people might feel let down, and be like ‘oh, this isn’t what I thought it was going to be.’”

CPRedJumpstartKitBoxMockup1-232x300.jpg

The pen-and-paper RPG Cyberpunk Red acts as an introduction to the world for those who want to jump in before the game’s release
Enter Cyberpunk Red. The latest edition of the pen-and-paper RPG was released in August by R. Talsorian Games, and provides a teaser of what to expect in Cyberpunk 2077. Set in 2045 – the midpoint between Mike Pondsmith’s original and the upcoming game. The RPG acts as a ‘midquel’, bridging the gap between the two titles – directly linking CD Projekt Red’s game to the original work.

Given the 32 year gap, there are unlikely to be any direct plot threads linking Cyberpunk Red and 2077, but the Cyberpunk Red Jumpstart Kit establishes the game’s setting – Night City, and an explanation of the politics of the future, detailing the horrific events known as the fourth corporate war.

Allowing the very keenest fans to get a jump-start on the game’s setting is key to alleviating the pressure to deliver on the hype surrounding 2077. Staying so true to Cyberpunk 2020, going so far as to directly link the titles, is a smart move – both paying homage to existing fans and enticing newcomers to play Cyberpunk Red in the meantime.

“Of course cyberpunk is a genre in its own right, but Cyberpunk 2020 really laid out Mike Pondsmith’s take on what the genre is all about,” says Borzymowski.

“In his particular vision, cyberpunk is all about having this world where there are no real governments anymore, where megacorporations are exploiting everybody just to get even more money and power. You have people living in extreme poverty, being controlled by these corporations, and in between the two you have the people being pushed down into the poverty line, dealing with gangs. And that’s where you are – you’re constantly struggling to know where to go. We want players to be able to create their own personal stories, about freedom and following their own path.”

This feeling of freedom has soaked into not only the game’s narrative, but into the gameplay mechanics themselves. Cyberpunk 2077 is the first CD Projekt Red game not to feature an established main character, and will instead allow players to create their own.

This sense of freedom and player choice in character creation has created headlines in the run up to the game’s launch, as it was revealed that players will not select to play as a man or a woman, but start with a choice between two body types, one traditionally masculine and one traditionally feminine. A seemingly small point to some, but one that potentially allows for players to create gender nonconforming characters, a sensible choice for a game centered around body modification and player choice.

To Borzymowski, the introduction of a character creator is a representation of CD Projekt Red’s evolution as a company. “With the first Witcher game, we were establishing the studio, establishing our style of storytelling. In the Witcher 3 we added the open world to ensure that Geralt is able to have the freedom to explore and to have some side activities.”

“When it comes to Cyberpunk, we don’t have an established character like Geralt. You are not this particular monster slayer with those particular two swords. You create your own character and you choose how you want them to play. I call it ‘open gameplay’, customising a character for the exact style of play that you want. You can go out there and be this Arnold Schwarzenegger Terminator kind of guy, running in guns blazing on every mission. Or you can be – and I don’t have a better expression for this – a cyber ninja, attacking guys from the shadows.”

Of course, this commitment to player freedom creates game design headaches that the team didn’t encounter in the Witcher games. Without a universal main character, with a single style of fighting, the game had to be structured from the very start to allow for playstyles of all kinds: “It’s very challenging. It’s not like we came up with this developer track that ‘oh yeah, we’ll just design it in this way, so it will be easy to accommodate all those playstyles.’”

“No, for every mission that we derived from the overarching plot that was written down in the very beginning, we had to shape and scope them in such a way that each single approach can not only finish the mission, but also have fun doing so. We’ll have players choosing to be a cyber ninja with a ton of cyberware, sure. But you can also play as a guy who claims he doesn’t even use cyberware, and is just this… vanilla human. We had to ensure that those players would still have fun with the game, so we had to have generic paths while ensuring that every single mission, every single beat is enjoyable for players of all kinds.”


The game’s stunning concept art demonstrates CD Projekt Red’s commitment to making Night City as detailed as possible

Although, with the wide array of cyberware available in the game to customise your character with, it’s hard for us to understand why players would want to turn it down in the first place.

One point of particular interest to us is the use of multiple languages in the game, requiring a translator implant in order for subtitles in the player’s language to appear on screen. “The universe of Cyberpunk allowed us to develop a believable gameplay mechanism that allows you to hear all sorts of different languages, while still being able to understand what is being said,” says Borzymowski. “It’s not just a game setting hidden away in the menu, you actually have to purchase this thing in order to understand people.”

Character creation and customisation is not the only thing that’s new in Cyberpunk 2077, though. As the game is such a departure from their previous Witcher titles, a whole new engine was required to produce the stunning visuals seen in the gameplay footage released so far. The new engine, titled REDengine 3, promises to deliver state-of-the-art visuals forming vivid environments, realistic expressions of emotions and character interactions. Big claims indeed, though there are more practical reasons behind the new engine, as Borzymowski explains: “first and foremost, we wouldn’t be able to develop Cyberpunk on the exact same engine as the Witcher. The benefits of the new engine are that we are able to develop Cyberpunk in the first person perspective, with all the verticality of the various buildings and skyscrapers around the place.

“Another thing,” he continues, “is when it comes to doing global illumination. When we are creating anything, in this example the city, you have to have two versions of it: you have daytime and the nighttime city. And at night, you have all those neon lights in the city, especially after you know, rainfall or something like that. You could just develop the geometry for the buildings, and add the neon lights on top of that. You have the shader of the water dripping off, but this wouldn’t give you as big an impression as having global illumination as well. So while developing, we always wanted to ensure we have this wow factor.”

Of course, talk like this does nothing to temper the astronomical hype surrounding this title, which brings us back to the pressure CD Projekt Red are under right now. While undoubtedly a talented team, they have suddenly found themselves about to publish what is bound to be one of the biggest releases of 2020. As the April release creeps ever-closer, the pressure from their ravenous fanbase is building.

“We are feeling under pressure,” says Borzymowski, “but we are taking it as encouragement and we are lucky that what we’re showing to the community is well received. They have given us a certainty that the vision that we had is the right one, is a good one. The approach here is to be transparent, we are not creating an illusion out of words. We’re sharing what we’re up to, and ensuring that we are on track to do something that will be well received.”

Borzymowski seems confident then, despite the enormously high expectations for the game – though this confidence seems to be based not on the assumption of reproducing their prior success with The Witcher, but an acknowledgement of the work that has gone on behind the scenes over the game’s long development. Still, we can’t help but ask if he’s feeling worried.

“Worrying is not the word,” he says. “We know that people are waiting for this game, and the only thing we can do – the very same thing we did on The Witcher – is to pour our heart and soul into it.”

Remain faitfhful to the original by turning the game in a FPS and rape the setting right? :D
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Messages
999
I'm not expecting much at this point. If it's a dumb nu-Deus-Ex clone with a decent sized map to explore I'll be mildly entertained enough to give it a pirate. Honestly shitty indie games are doing better Cyberpunk than CDP are right now.



LOW-FI is a VR game though. So you lot are going to be sour grapes about the game. It's promising to be an open world game with non linear quests and C&C. We'll see if it shapes up. It looks better than Cyberpunk, regardless. Also the music is nice and the demo I played was pretty fun and immersive.
 

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