Disco Elysium Pre-Release Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[toro]

Prime Junta Let's make it real.

If you don't post in this thread - after this post - until release then I will buy the game and prove it.
If you post then I will pirate the game ... and prove it.

Deal?

 

[Prime Junta]

Prime Junta Let's make it real.

If you don't post in this thread - after this post - until release then I will buy the game and prove it.
If you post then I will pirate the game ... and prove it.

Deal?

Deal.

 

[Latro]

here is aweigh talking about a game that calls itself a RPG

Spoiler

servant is kind of... underwhelming. they're the only class in Gothic that i'd say weren't "BALANCED" enough. There's just no good reason to take one, nor is there servant-only equipment that kicks ass (that I remember).

Shamans can do fun things once they're fully kitted out with charms and shit. Fun to fuck around with, and their barrier can come in very handy throughout the entire game. There's some good shaman equipment/katanas in the end-game dungeons too.

Both of these classes were kind of unintentionally nerfed by the power curve increase in elminage gothic though; a lot of the rules governing AC, weapon range and equipment class restrictions implemented into elminage gothic, which were implemented for the express purpose of bringing it more in line with classic Wizardry rules, also had the unintended effect of slightly nerfing the "flavor" out of the flavor-classes, like the servant and the shaman.

TLDR Elminage gothic implemented "hard core rules" for classes, weapons, armors, etc, that make it play more like traditional Wizardry (and make the game harder overall) but somewhere along the way they forgot to buff the flavor classes to help them compete better with the core classes.

Like I said though, the shaman is still very useful in Gothic, it was really mostly the Servant who got left by the wayside. You should use Servant only if you're intentionally wanting to increase the game's challenge IMO. My very last playthrough of Gothic about a year ago I had a servant in the party specifically for the purpose going Non-Optimal.

***Keep in mind all this balance talk is coming from someone whose main enjoyment from these games comes from playing optimally and/or power-gaming, so it is quite possible that you could play through the entire game and never once think your servant or shaman are underpowered compared to the core classes.

EDIT 2: As for nurturing a summoner? sure, go for it. E: Gothic (and Original) both heavily reward players who invest time and dedication into capturing enemies, and in both games you can utterly break shit in mid-game and end-game by fusing together enemies for creating ridiculously broken monster adventurers.

Personally I don't like creating monster adventurers precisely because they have too-good potential (which is ironic since I just now said I like power-gaming, I know), and also taking along a summoner kind of necessitates taking a brawler unless you have infinite patience. You don't need a brawler unless you plan on capturing the extremely rare enemies though who have 95% resistance; all a brawler's combo does is reduce poke-resistance by 20% so you don't really need it, it just reduces the amount of time you'd spend spamming the capture command.

E: Gothic is the best balanced game I've ever played, the power curve and the itemization is really a thing of fucking beauty, it's the kind of "game balance" people like Sawyer DREAM about. God it is such a perfect experience I get chills just thinking of how well-balanced it is; even the one aspect that may appear unbalanced, which is making overpowered end-game Monster Adventurers from your summons, even that aspect is challenging enough that it doesn't make it an obvious route, plus it also necessitates two character slots in your team (having to take along a brawler) which is another consideration.

here is bataille talking about a game that calls itself a RPG

Spoiler

Near the beginning of the game, there's a scene where your character gets in contact with his precinct (by police radio) and reports his badge missing. It's a mostly sombre scene which quite competently and subtly establishes the hero's past on the force without much exposition, just by picturing the characters' demeanor and attitude towards our cop. Half the precinct gathers around the communication officer to cruelly ridicule and tease us about the result of our latest escapade, while the poor drunk fails Reaction Speed checks, unable to defend his hurt Authority with any sort of comeback. And when it feels like he can't sink any lower, one of the cops delivers a devastating gut punch by asking one unexpected question... which I won't spoil. The whole scene is kinda hard to stomach, but it's more bittersweet than hopeless, thanks to the obvious humanity of the writer.

But that's not the point of me telling you this. It occurs at the end of the scene, when it looks like you're done and can continue with other business. Suddenly, you pass an Esprit de Corps check, and it brings about a sudden change in perspective. We witness the aftermath of our call on its other end. The officers are in the room, and they begin talking among themselves about what has just happened, and their tone is completely different. They change the mode to "he's not listening anymore." For a bit they continue in the same vein, lamenting the cop's current state, apparent suicidal/self-destructive tendencies, and revealing some more details about him. After a while, the mood changes. They reflect on the situation. Some of the officers decide not to give up on one of their own. A few of them get visibly uncomfortable and maybe ashamed of their recent behavior; someone tries to leave the room. Some back and forth later, the policemen decide to cut our hero some slack, cover for him, and maybe try to help the prodigal son step back into the ranks.

After that, out of nowhere, the last, absolutely brilliant phrase by Esprit de Corps comes, bringing us back to the motor car; to the small, sad, infinitely pitiable man who is wordlessly hunching over the silent police radio. And... it gives me shivers and moves me to tears. The profoundly sad tremolo in the post-rock-like song in the background just deepens the impact of that last bit. I sit there, thinking: what the fuck has just happened? Video games are not supposed to trigger Stendhal syndrome. This never happened before. How is this possible? Why did a half-hidden skill check show me a couple pages long vignette that squeezed some tears out of me?

So this is my question: how is this possible?

Make no mistake, one is a RPG, the other is not. We're in a fight for RPGs here at the Codex, who shall be a paladin of incline or a minion of decline?

 

[HanoverF]

Oh, that reminds me, does the game have any sort of economy? Do you need to buy stuff?

Yes. You start out owing 130 réal for rent.* There are also all kinds of people hawking stuff -- a pawnshop, a guy selling shit that fell off the back of a truck, a kid selling a suspiciously new set of gym pants and illegal narcotics, a liquor shop, and a bunch more. You can get money by pawning junk, soliciting bribes, extortion, begging, collecting empty bottles and turning them in at a convenience store, and so on.

*Exact sum subject to change

Is the spoiler going to be that you're not really a cop after all?

The spoiler is

Spoiler

you can have a truce with the Furies.

 

[just]

Prime Junta Let's make it real.

If you don't post in this thread - after this post - until release then I will buy the game and prove it.
If you post then I will pirate the game ... and prove it.

Deal?

Deal.

madman posted

 

[RNGsus]

Why did a half-hidden skill check show me a couple pages long vignette that squeezed some tears out of me?

 

[bataille]

here is aweigh talking about a game that calls itself a RPG

Spoiler

servant is kind of... underwhelming. they're the only class in Gothic that i'd say weren't "BALANCED" enough. There's just no good reason to take one, nor is there servant-only equipment that kicks ass (that I remember).

Shamans can do fun things once they're fully kitted out with charms and shit. Fun to fuck around with, and their barrier can come in very handy throughout the entire game. There's some good shaman equipment/katanas in the end-game dungeons too.

Both of these classes were kind of unintentionally nerfed by the power curve increase in elminage gothic though; a lot of the rules governing AC, weapon range and equipment class restrictions implemented into elminage gothic, which were implemented for the express purpose of bringing it more in line with classic Wizardry rules, also had the unintended effect of slightly nerfing the "flavor" out of the flavor-classes, like the servant and the shaman.

TLDR Elminage gothic implemented "hard core rules" for classes, weapons, armors, etc, that make it play more like traditional Wizardry (and make the game harder overall) but somewhere along the way they forgot to buff the flavor classes to help them compete better with the core classes.

Like I said though, the shaman is still very useful in Gothic, it was really mostly the Servant who got left by the wayside. You should use Servant only if you're intentionally wanting to increase the game's challenge IMO. My very last playthrough of Gothic about a year ago I had a servant in the party specifically for the purpose going Non-Optimal.

***Keep in mind all this balance talk is coming from someone whose main enjoyment from these games comes from playing optimally and/or power-gaming, so it is quite possible that you could play through the entire game and never once think your servant or shaman are underpowered compared to the core classes.

EDIT 2: As for nurturing a summoner? sure, go for it. E: Gothic (and Original) both heavily reward players who invest time and dedication into capturing enemies, and in both games you can utterly break shit in mid-game and end-game by fusing together enemies for creating ridiculously broken monster adventurers.

Personally I don't like creating monster adventurers precisely because they have too-good potential (which is ironic since I just now said I like power-gaming, I know), and also taking along a summoner kind of necessitates taking a brawler unless you have infinite patience. You don't need a brawler unless you plan on capturing the extremely rare enemies though who have 95% resistance; all a brawler's combo does is reduce poke-resistance by 20% so you don't really need it, it just reduces the amount of time you'd spend spamming the capture command.

E: Gothic is the best balanced game I've ever played, the power curve and the itemization is really a thing of fucking beauty, it's the kind of "game balance" people like Sawyer DREAM about. God it is such a perfect experience I get chills just thinking of how well-balanced it is; even the one aspect that may appear unbalanced, which is making overpowered end-game Monster Adventurers from your summons, even that aspect is challenging enough that it doesn't make it an obvious route, plus it also necessitates two character slots in your team (having to take along a brawler) which is another consideration.

here is bataille talking about a game that calls itself a RPG

Spoiler

Near the beginning of the game, there's a scene where your character gets in contact with his precinct (by police radio) and reports his badge missing. It's a mostly sombre scene which quite competently and subtly establishes the hero's past on the force without much exposition, just by picturing the characters' demeanor and attitude towards our cop. Half the precinct gathers around the communication officer to cruelly ridicule and tease us about the result of our latest escapade, while the poor drunk fails Reaction Speed checks, unable to defend his hurt Authority with any sort of comeback. And when it feels like he can't sink any lower, one of the cops delivers a devastating gut punch by asking one unexpected question... which I won't spoil. The whole scene is kinda hard to stomach, but it's more bittersweet than hopeless, thanks to the obvious humanity of the writer.

But that's not the point of me telling you this. It occurs at the end of the scene, when it looks like you're done and can continue with other business. Suddenly, you pass an Esprit de Corps check, and it brings about a sudden change in perspective. We witness the aftermath of our call on its other end. The officers are in the room, and they begin talking among themselves about what has just happened, and their tone is completely different. They change the mode to "he's not listening anymore." For a bit they continue in the same vein, lamenting the cop's current state, apparent suicidal/self-destructive tendencies, and revealing some more details about him. After a while, the mood changes. They reflect on the situation. Some of the officers decide not to give up on one of their own. A few of them get visibly uncomfortable and maybe ashamed of their recent behavior; someone tries to leave the room. Some back and forth later, the policemen decide to cut our hero some slack, cover for him, and maybe try to help the prodigal son step back into the ranks.

After that, out of nowhere, the last, absolutely brilliant phrase by Esprit de Corps comes, bringing us back to the motor car; to the small, sad, infinitely pitiable man who is wordlessly hunching over the silent police radio. And... it gives me shivers and moves me to tears. The profoundly sad tremolo in the post-rock-like song in the background just deepens the impact of that last bit. I sit there, thinking: what the fuck has just happened? Video games are not supposed to trigger Stendhal syndrome. This never happened before. How is this possible? Why did a half-hidden skill check show me a couple pages long vignette that squeezed some tears out of me?

So this is my question: how is this possible?

Make no mistake, one is a RPG, the other is not. We're in a fight for RPGs here at the Codex, who shall be a paladin of incline or a minion of decline?

Personally, I find Inland Empire an endlessly more appealing skill than Pain Threshold.

 

[ScrotumBroth]

Near the beginning of the game, there's a scene where your character gets in contact with his precinct (by police radio) and reports his badge missing. It's a mostly sombre scene which quite competently and subtly establishes the hero's past on the force without much exposition, just by picturing the characters' demeanor and attitude towards our cop. Half the precinct gathers around the communication officer to cruelly ridicule and tease us about the result of our latest escapade, while the poor drunk fails Reaction Speed checks, unable to defend his hurt Authority with any sort of comeback. And when it feels like he can't sink any lower, one of the cops delivers a devastating gut punch by asking one unexpected question... which I won't spoil. The whole scene is kinda hard to stomach, but it's more bittersweet than hopeless, thanks to the obvious humanity of the writer.

But that's not the point of me telling you this. It occurs at the end of the scene, when it looks like you're done and can continue with other business. Suddenly, you pass an Esprit de Corps check, and it brings about a sudden change in perspective. We witness the aftermath of our call on its other end. The officers are in the room, and they begin talking among themselves about what has just happened, and their tone is completely different. They change the mode to "he's not listening anymore." For a bit they continue in the same vein, lamenting the cop's current state, apparent suicidal/self-destructive tendencies, and revealing some more details about him. After a while, the mood changes. They reflect on the situation. Some of the officers decide not to give up on one of their own. A few of them get visibly uncomfortable and maybe ashamed of their recent behavior; someone tries to leave the room. Some back and forth later, the policemen decide to cut our hero some slack, cover for him, and maybe try to help the prodigal son step back into the ranks.

After that, out of nowhere, the last, absolutely brilliant phrase by Esprit de Corps comes, bringing us back to the motor car; to the small, sad, infinitely pitiable man who is wordlessly hunching over the silent police radio. And... it gives me shivers and moves me to tears. The profoundly sad tremolo in the post-rock-like song in the background just deepens the impact of that last bit. I sit there, thinking: what the fuck has just happened? Video games are not supposed to trigger Stendhal syndrome. This never happened before. How is this possible? Why did a half-hidden skill check show me a couple pages long vignette that squeezed some tears out of me?

So this is my question: how is this possible?

Now I REALLY want to play this game. I hope you're writing the review.

Ur mum?

 

[JarlFrank]

here is aweigh talking about a game that calls itself a RPG

Spoiler

servant is kind of... underwhelming. they're the only class in Gothic that i'd say weren't "BALANCED" enough. There's just no good reason to take one, nor is there servant-only equipment that kicks ass (that I remember).

Shamans can do fun things once they're fully kitted out with charms and shit. Fun to fuck around with, and their barrier can come in very handy throughout the entire game. There's some good shaman equipment/katanas in the end-game dungeons too.

Both of these classes were kind of unintentionally nerfed by the power curve increase in elminage gothic though; a lot of the rules governing AC, weapon range and equipment class restrictions implemented into elminage gothic, which were implemented for the express purpose of bringing it more in line with classic Wizardry rules, also had the unintended effect of slightly nerfing the "flavor" out of the flavor-classes, like the servant and the shaman.

TLDR Elminage gothic implemented "hard core rules" for classes, weapons, armors, etc, that make it play more like traditional Wizardry (and make the game harder overall) but somewhere along the way they forgot to buff the flavor classes to help them compete better with the core classes.

Like I said though, the shaman is still very useful in Gothic, it was really mostly the Servant who got left by the wayside. You should use Servant only if you're intentionally wanting to increase the game's challenge IMO. My very last playthrough of Gothic about a year ago I had a servant in the party specifically for the purpose going Non-Optimal.

***Keep in mind all this balance talk is coming from someone whose main enjoyment from these games comes from playing optimally and/or power-gaming, so it is quite possible that you could play through the entire game and never once think your servant or shaman are underpowered compared to the core classes.

EDIT 2: As for nurturing a summoner? sure, go for it. E: Gothic (and Original) both heavily reward players who invest time and dedication into capturing enemies, and in both games you can utterly break shit in mid-game and end-game by fusing together enemies for creating ridiculously broken monster adventurers.

Personally I don't like creating monster adventurers precisely because they have too-good potential (which is ironic since I just now said I like power-gaming, I know), and also taking along a summoner kind of necessitates taking a brawler unless you have infinite patience. You don't need a brawler unless you plan on capturing the extremely rare enemies though who have 95% resistance; all a brawler's combo does is reduce poke-resistance by 20% so you don't really need it, it just reduces the amount of time you'd spend spamming the capture command.

E: Gothic is the best balanced game I've ever played, the power curve and the itemization is really a thing of fucking beauty, it's the kind of "game balance" people like Sawyer DREAM about. God it is such a perfect experience I get chills just thinking of how well-balanced it is; even the one aspect that may appear unbalanced, which is making overpowered end-game Monster Adventurers from your summons, even that aspect is challenging enough that it doesn't make it an obvious route, plus it also necessitates two character slots in your team (having to take along a brawler) which is another consideration.

here is bataille talking about a game that calls itself a RPG

Spoiler

Near the beginning of the game, there's a scene where your character gets in contact with his precinct (by police radio) and reports his badge missing. It's a mostly sombre scene which quite competently and subtly establishes the hero's past on the force without much exposition, just by picturing the characters' demeanor and attitude towards our cop. Half the precinct gathers around the communication officer to cruelly ridicule and tease us about the result of our latest escapade, while the poor drunk fails Reaction Speed checks, unable to defend his hurt Authority with any sort of comeback. And when it feels like he can't sink any lower, one of the cops delivers a devastating gut punch by asking one unexpected question... which I won't spoil. The whole scene is kinda hard to stomach, but it's more bittersweet than hopeless, thanks to the obvious humanity of the writer.

But that's not the point of me telling you this. It occurs at the end of the scene, when it looks like you're done and can continue with other business. Suddenly, you pass an Esprit de Corps check, and it brings about a sudden change in perspective. We witness the aftermath of our call on its other end. The officers are in the room, and they begin talking among themselves about what has just happened, and their tone is completely different. They change the mode to "he's not listening anymore." For a bit they continue in the same vein, lamenting the cop's current state, apparent suicidal/self-destructive tendencies, and revealing some more details about him. After a while, the mood changes. They reflect on the situation. Some of the officers decide not to give up on one of their own. A few of them get visibly uncomfortable and maybe ashamed of their recent behavior; someone tries to leave the room. Some back and forth later, the policemen decide to cut our hero some slack, cover for him, and maybe try to help the prodigal son step back into the ranks.

After that, out of nowhere, the last, absolutely brilliant phrase by Esprit de Corps comes, bringing us back to the motor car; to the small, sad, infinitely pitiable man who is wordlessly hunching over the silent police radio. And... it gives me shivers and moves me to tears. The profoundly sad tremolo in the post-rock-like song in the background just deepens the impact of that last bit. I sit there, thinking: what the fuck has just happened? Video games are not supposed to trigger Stendhal syndrome. This never happened before. How is this possible? Why did a half-hidden skill check show me a couple pages long vignette that squeezed some tears out of me?

So this is my question: how is this possible?

Make no mistake, one is a RPG, the other is not. We're in a fight for RPGs here at the Codex, who shall be a paladin of incline or a minion of decline?

Both are RPGs, just different subgenres.

 

[Latro]

Both are RPGs, just different subgenres.

might as well call thief a RPG-stealth then

 

[JarlFrank]

Both are RPGs, just different subgenres.

might as well call thief a RPG-stealth then

Thief is an amazing game and probably my favorite of all time. It also has very open level design, which is a thing that good RPGs also have.

But it has no stats and skills, and you can only play a single character type, which is why it isn't an RPG.

Disco Elysium has several stats and skills, lots of equipment that gives bonuses or maluses to your stats and skills, and plenty of skill checks. Therefore it is an RPG.

 

[Latro]

But it has no stats and skills, and you can only play a single character type, which is why it isn't an RPG.

so borderlands is a rpg now?

 

[fantadomat]

If there is stats,then it is rpg.

 

[Latro]

If there is stats,then it is rpg.

so STALKER is a rpg now?

 

[Latro]

Disco Elysium is not a rpg; if we were to consider it a RPG, then Borderlands, Stalker, and even Dishonored all have the right to be considered full-blown RPG games.

This is bullshit. In japan JRPGs without combat and branching dialogue are rightfully considered virtual novels - here in the Codex we have this obvious non-RPG classified as a RPG and for what? Who's getting paid? Who's profiting?
Disco E. has NOTHING in common with real RPGs, it's true progenitor is ZORK and Twine - these are TEXT ADVENTURES. Nobody considered Sanitarium a real RPG.

 

[Prime Junta]

No, but what is a RPG? We need somebody to post a definition. How can we discuss the question in a civilised manner if we can't agree on a definition?

 

[Terenty]

Disco Elysium is not a rpg; if we were to consider it a RPG, then Borderlands, Stalker, and even Dishonored all have the right to be considered full-blown RPG games.

This is bullshit. In japan JRPGs without combat and branching dialogue are rightfully considered virtual novels - here in the Codex we have this obvious non-RPG classified as a RPG and for what? Who's getting paid? Who's profiting?
Disco E. has NOTHING in common with real RPGs, it's true progenitor is ZORK and Twine - these are TEXT ADVENTURES. Nobody considered Sanitarium a real RPG.

But Disco Elysium has branching dialogue, quests, items, combat and skills. Why cant it be considered an rpg?

 

[Latro]

Disco Elysium is not a rpg; if we were to consider it a RPG, then Borderlands, Stalker, and even Dishonored all have the right to be considered full-blown RPG games.

This is bullshit. In japan JRPGs without combat and branching dialogue are rightfully considered virtual novels - here in the Codex we have this obvious non-RPG classified as a RPG and for what? Who's getting paid? Who's profiting?
Disco E. has NOTHING in common with real RPGs, it's true progenitor is ZORK and Twine - these are TEXT ADVENTURES. Nobody considered Sanitarium a real RPG.

But Disco Elysium has branching dialogue, quests, items, combat and skills. Why cant it be considered an rpg?

Disco E has no combat, and branching dialogue is a RPG innovation - it's not a primary trait of RPGs nor can any game with branching dialogue be considered a RPG.

Twine games have no combat, they are literally built out of branching dialogue, and they also (can) have skills and items that change the branching dialogue tree. Are Twine games now RPGs?

 

[Prime Junta]

Disco E has no combat

... he said, as he lay bleeding on the ground from a bullet to the gut

There are tabletop RPGs that have no combat. Are they RPGs? If not, what are they?

 

[Latro]

Disco E has no combat

... he said, as he lay bleeding on the ground from a bullet to the gut

reveal thy NDA, what combat does disco e. have? is turn based RPG combat? real-time RPG combat? basic bitch nu-xcom AP shit?

 

[Latro]

Disco Elysium is not a RPG, therefore:

1. Disco E. should be tarred and feathered and moved into Gen. Gaming.
2. It cannot ever be chosen in top 100 Codex RPGs.

Crispy Infinitron

you know it to be true

 

[ScrotumBroth]

PSTs combat is a joke. Purely flavour additive. It's the ultimate storyfag experience.

Does a game need flavour additives to be considered an RPG? That's semantics.

 

[Latro]

PSTs combat is a joke. Purely flavour additive. It's the ultimate storyfag experience.

Does a game need flavour additives to be considered an RPG? That's semantics.

Torment is a full-fledged D&D game with a focus on exposition and branching dialogue, it is absolutely still a RPG, unlike Disco Elysium. Just because you don't like the RPG part of Torment does not mean it is not there.

 

[Infinitron]

First sentence in Steam description:

Disco Elysium is a groundbreaking open world role playing game.

Case closed!

 

[PrK]

it's true progenitor is ZORK and Twine

Putting those two in the same sentence is heresy, Twine shit are not games.

Also Disco Elysium is an RPG so any definition the Codex tries to conjure up should be applicable to it as well.