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Epic vs Steam - the console war comes to PC

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by LESS T_T, Dec 4, 2018.

  1. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    Exactly my point. Consumers rarely know what they want. It's only when someone, as a result of competitive effort, comes up with something new and desirable they suddenly need that. The last 200 years of Industrial Revolution is the history of 9/10 companies thinking "We've done everything, not sure what more consumers want" and the 10th company coming up with something completely new and revolutionary that everyone suddenly can't live without.

    When EA came up with Origin suddenly consumers realized refunds of digitally distributed PC games are possible (after Valve fighting this policy for years in the EU). Just 2 months into Epic existence the idea of cross-platform play surfaced as something actually in the cards. And recently it's been leaked Valve could start offering dedicated servers for 3rd party games.

    What else do we want? I have no idea. But thanks to competition I'm sure various actors will come up with something that wouldn't exist in a market completely dominated by only one company. To be sure, Valve has been a benign dictator but competition is always better than even the most benign dominance and unlike the console market the price to pay for competition in the PC market is to take 2 minutes to install a small piece of free software.
     
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  2. Strange Fellow Magister Patron

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    That's all well and good, but doesn't apply to Epic at all. Cross-platform play? Get outta here. Wake me up when a new storefront offers something that Steam doesn't. You know, like GOG did.
     
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  3. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    Don't forget that digital cut already went down from 30% to 10-15% across the stores and most of the stores already are in process of lowering that cut. Steam itself already went from fixed 30% to dynamic 30-25-20% based on success.

    And there are plenty of things that could a lot change PC space.

    Part of the reason why consoles are so popular is because in order to compete with each other Nintendo, MS, Sony, Sega etc etc spend shitload of money promoting their consoles. When Champions league is happening why do you think those Playstation 2/3/4 signs exist ? Because Sony knows that they have competition and they need to do it in order to get players. By the same measure they take away potential players from PC.

    When was the last time you saw Steam placing any ads IRL ?
    They never did it because they have no competition.

    Welcome to real market.
     
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  4. cvv Arcane Patron

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  5. Strange Fellow Magister Patron

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  6. cvv Arcane Patron

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  7. Strange Fellow Magister Patron

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    Because it's not something I want.
     
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  8. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    lol. You do realize how dumb this sounds ?
    You don't want for players to play across Steam/Epic/GOG etc regardless which launcher they chose ?
     
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  9. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    It's actually across ALL the platforms - PC, Mac, iOS, Android, PlayStation, Xbox, Switch.
     
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  10. Strange Fellow Magister Patron

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    I see. I thought this was only about platforms, not storefronts as well. Never mind, then.
     
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  11. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

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    It would add a level of consumer friendliness to the Epic Store that is sorely missing from it, and would have me show more goodwill towards them, yes. That is, if DRM-free truly means I get to download an independent insaller that I can put on my HDD and keep forever.
     
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  12. cvv Arcane Patron

    cvv
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    DRM-free means you're not limited in any way once you buy and download the game. Epic offers this option, just like Steam does. Once you buy and download Ashen for example you can play it without any limitation, without the launcher even. You can back it up and unpack again in any way you want. Developers can choose to do this with their games on the EGS.
     
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  13. JarlFrank I like Thief THIS much Patron

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    Except Denuvo is utter shit that impacts performance and is an intrusive form of DRM that shouldn't exist. Fuck Denuvo.

    If Epic Store is "like Denuvo" then I hope it dies in a fire as soon as possible.

    Luckily it's not even half as bad as Denuvo.

    Defending draconian DRM... jeez.
     
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  14. Medusa45 Educated

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  15. Reinhardt Arcane

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    Pity, you can buy game only from Epic, right?
     
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  16. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

    Vault Dweller
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    Except they offer ABSOLUTELY NOTHING new & different to the player (except for no toxic forums and reviews). All they do is grab new releases to force players to join them. Hardly surprising why not everyone is excited about it.
     
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  17. Perkel Arcane

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    Hardly anyone is excited for colonoscopy.
    And yet you have to do it.
     
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  18. Paul_cz Arcane

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    Not a completely accurate comparison. Yes using Epic store is like digital colonoscopy, but I definitely not have to use it, fortunately.
     
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  19. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    It really didn't. The newcomers who own 1% of the market share announced that they're cutting their fee which is nice but nobody cares what fees one has to pay for access to 1% of the market. Until that changes it's pretty meaningless.

    For games that sell over a million copies or more, most likely to entice companies like Bethesda, EA, and MS to sell on Steam, not as response to Epic. This deal wouldn't even cover inXile, not to mention smaller studios.

    Edit:

    First, if the exclusivity thing works, they will have enough cash to continue. Second, as I've explained in another thread, Epic risks very little by fronting millions in cash. They can easily give Gollop 10 mil upfront and get it back in 3-4 years (worst case scenario) or the very first year if the game does reasonably well. If it sells 500k copies at $40 avg to account for regional pricing, it will generate 20 mil, more than enough to repay Epic. If it tanks and sells only 100k in the first year, then Epic would have to wait 2-3 years to get the money back, which isn't big deal either.

    That's what makes it so easy for Steam and GOG to start grabbing new releases too. There's very little risk there.
     
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  20. Infinitron I post news Patron

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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    My point is that "excitement" in either direction seems unwarranted.

    Julian Gollop says we'll have download his crowdfunded game from THIS website and not THAT website. OK. May that be the game's biggest problem.
     
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  21. Perkel Arcane

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    Are you trying to say that stores doing those changes exactly the moment Epic did it while at the same time weeks sometimes days before talking about being happy with 30% has nothing to do with Epic doing that ?
    Doesn't get past by Ocam razor mate. It is painfully obvious that this was change due to what Epic did.

    Also let us not forget that similar thing happened in game engines world just short few years back when Epic not only gave full access to their source + slashed royalties across the board and soon withing a year all other engines slashed those prices and gave more or less better access to their engine sources.

    Steam didn't go for 10% or whatever because they are still in dominant position. They test market to see if other will drop prices as well or not. But they did budge.

    Some other shops as you said also did change it but they are not key players. No one outside of Steam is key player.

    At some point you will get to calculation that 30% x 100 is less than 10% x 100 000.
     
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  22. Reinhardt Arcane

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    He lied more than once already so who cares what he says.
     
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  23. MuscleSpark Savant Patron

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    Morality is a spook. My "panic" with Denuvo is nothing to do with morals, it's entirely to do with practicality. Game development is hard enough as it is, and having to deal with DRM, virtualization layers and online server checks (which can fail at any time) just compounds the problem and makes it more inconvenient for me. If the game runs worse, sometimes awfully so, because something unnecessary to me wasn't "implemented properly" then it's not something I want in the first place.

    Like JarlFrank said, fuck Denuvo.
     
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  24. Who Cares Educated

    Who Cares
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    That's still DRM

    In Devil May Cry 5, the game that came out less than two weeks ago, removing Denuvo gives you an extra 20 FPS. I wasn't around for Steam debacle(never heard of it until Orange Box came out) but I strongly suspect that also wasn't as baseless as you imply.
     
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  25. Vault Dweller Commissar, Red Star Studio Developer

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    It might be if most players decide to wait a year instead. While Gollop will still get Epic's minimum sales guarantee money, a minimum sales guarantee and a successful NEW release on Steam are two very different things. Releasing the game on Steam a year later might not get the same response.
     
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