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Interview "How to make a Torment game" - Mega-Interview with Kevin Saunders and Adam Heine at Iron Tower

Discussion in 'RPG Codex News & Content Comments' started by Infinitron, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Zed Codex Staff Patron

    Zed
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    Codex USB, 2014
    I don't mind some linearity in terms of where you can visit and at what time. PS:T was super linear at times and I don't think that hurt the game. What's important to me is the reactivity to actions and multiple solutions to quests.

    "You're restricted to zone A and then you must go to zone B, but you can do so in multiple ways" = great
    "-||- + You can only enter zone B by doing a specific thing" = not so great
     
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  2. CMcC Larian Studios Developer

    CMcC
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    Deeeeeeeetroit.
    Looking at my story flowchart, I'd say: less linear. We do have major story beats that will remain the same; as ksaun noted, we're using story-based gates and other techniques for some pacing control, so you'll have to hit certain of those gates to progress. There is a distinct critical path through the game. However, there are places where the story diverges considerably based on your choices and actions.
     
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  3. hiver Guest

    hiver
    Speak for yourself. Not for the "people".

    I didnt elect you for anything.


    Excellent. Thats actually how it should be, since there is no actual requirement for it to be completely non-linear at all. As there never was any such requirement for the original either.

    Just things that make sense.

    We are not living in completely non linear reality - after all, either.
     
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  4. villain of the story Arcane

    villain of the story
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    Less than PST. Hmmm. Not sure what to make of that.
     
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  5. Raapys Arcane

    Raapys
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    Probably a hub system where you're mostly free to explore and do side-content as you want, but then need to progress the story to access the next hub.
     
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  6. Harg Harfardarssen Cipher Patron

    Harg Harfardarssen
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    Dreams, where I'm a viking.
    Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera
    I don't think it necessarily means anything drastic. If you look at the main PST plot at a high-level, it was very linear. Wake up->find Pharod -> Tomb -> find Ravel -> Curst -> Fortress. You really can't switch up the order. Even within those major points there were smaller events that had to happen in a particular order. Its just that the C&C was so good that at in different playthroughs each of those points could have significant differences in the details. So even something as small as allowing you multiple ways to get the orb from Pharod would make the game less linear.
     
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  7. TwinkieGorilla does a good job. Patron

    TwinkieGorilla
    Joined:
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    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech
    Why? You wanted it to be more linear than PS:T? o_O
     
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  8. villain of the story Arcane

    villain of the story
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    I actually somehow read that as "less non-linear".

    I would certainly appreciate less linearity.
     
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  9. crawlkill Kill all boxed game owners. Kill! Kill!

    crawlkill
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    That sense of having a whole world you could poke your nose into at any time was always awesome in BG2, but I'll take more meaningful decisionmaking over what amounts to no more than choosing what order to do content in any day. Having the game remember what you've done and respond to it is really the heart of this kind of experience. Nonlinearity is kind of a fun extra. I feel like what people really want when they -say- nonlinear is that two playthroughs should be able to differ from one another, and Tides sounds like it'll be anything but the same every time.

    Unrelated, pantie-wetting over the prospect of potentially being able to play the game without killing any sentient creatures. Definitely nnnot an option in the old Infinity Engine games, but I love punishing myself with nonlethal runs in games that bother to notice I've done so (Alpha Protocol: Orphans made: Zero!).
     
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  10. villain of the story Arcane

    villain of the story
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    People you put off to sleep with tranquillizers got cancer and the others you knocked out got spinal trauma. No orphans but you wrecked many a lives.
     
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  11. crawlkill Kill all boxed game owners. Kill! Kill!

    crawlkill
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    oh, I know. but a little maiming might remind people not to wander around with implements of death in hand in the future. they'll have a chance to reflect on the error of violence.
     
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  12. villain of the story Arcane

    villain of the story
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    Tell that to the little kids who will no longer be able to play with their bed-bound fathers on meds.
     
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  13. crawlkill Kill all boxed game owners. Kill! Kill!

    crawlkill
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    oh man thank fuck if they'd added a "distressed breeders:" count to the game I'd've made sure I took down every single enemy
     
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  14. Septaryeth Savant

    Septaryeth
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    Tranquilizers don't give people cancers...'least not with one shot.
    You should be more worried about the how quick your enemies fall unconscious,
    that's usually a sign of overdosing, which could just stop their respiratory functions and kill them anyway.
     
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  15. villain of the story Arcane

    villain of the story
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    I have black belt in tranquiollisers and Dark Tranquillity is one of my favourite bands. Don't question my authority.
     
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  16. Wyrmlord Arcane

    Wyrmlord
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    I have played Torment four times over the past decade since the age of 15, until there was simply nothing new to discover in the game.

    I realize that if I played it for a fifth time, it would feel like a routine activity at this point of time.

    The biggest reason for to be hyped for a Torment sequel is so that I can relive that same feeling as if I was experiencing it for the first time, rather than have to go through Torment again and make it a more predictable experience.

    It's why I was pleased with this statement: "We’re not explicitly attempting to ”compete” with Planescape: Torment in terms of its writing, characters, and storytelling. We are making a game that places focus on those elements, but we’ll allow Torment: Tides of Numenera to organically become its own game." If this game tries to live in the shadow of Torment, then it won't feel like something fresh, something new, as Torment did. Rather, it should be inspired by the original game to be something new, something different.
     
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  17. Misconnected Savant

    Misconnected
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    Wouldn't Distressed Breeders be more the sort of thing you got holding hands with your boyfriend in public & such? :D
     
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  18. Absalom Guest

    Absalom
    Torment differed from most games in that it had an excellent story and shit game play. I really don't know what aspect of this "game" they want to revive for tides of Numa Numa (Or whatever the fuck they're calling it.) Almost certainly they can't match the plot. They have a much larger staff and a lower common denominator to please. Most likely this will be banal, shit, boring.

    I will still (maybe) buy it and try it out. Which is more than I would give to most games in its class.
     
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  19. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Uh, that's bullshit. Planescape: Torment was a game developed by a major publisher named Interplay for a mass market and featured promises of "HOT BABES" in its vision document.
    Numenera on the other hand is custom-made for a niche audience of backers. Please don't fucking delude yourself.
     
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  20. Absalom Guest

    Absalom
    I doubt you played Planescape: Torment for its' "HOT BABE" system, Infinitron. Maybe it was the way it replaced an armour system with an tattoo one. Or its emphasis on character development. And I remember the Torment trailers on the old Fallout 1 discs, I don't remember any "HOT BABES" then.

    I remember Interplays old logo
    "For Gamers, by Gamers"

    Maybe the modern game will follow the same pattern. But I doubt it.
     
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  21. Brother None inXile Entertainment Developer

    Brother None
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    Denominator aside (which I'd say we have the same audience as PS:T actually reached (not the audience Interplay PR was necessarily hoping for back then)), we also do not have a much larger staff. It's probably about the same.
     
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  22. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
    Joined:
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    http://www.rpgwatch.com/show/file?ref=0&id=208&top=Files


    No lowest common denominator here, no sir


    Have you actually read anything about it, or are you simply trolling?
     
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  23. Absalom Guest

    Absalom
    Alrite I haven't seen that old PR campaign. Makes me lose respect for it a lil bit. Thanks for cheapening my P:T experience Infinitron!
    (I'm kidding)
    (To some extent)

    As for having read anything about it, yes I have, but I dislike burying people in my assumptions and conclusions. I generally comment on only the latest happenings.

    If I was trolling, you would know because you'd leave the thread laughing out loud with a smile on your face.
     
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  24. FeelTheRads Arcane Patron

    FeelTheRads
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    Delude yourself that the game will suck? You usually delude yourself that the game will be good.

    The vision document was not public, it was for the management. As you can also see in the link you provided. I don't think Torment was actually marketed as a game with babes.

    Now, I'm not saying that I think Numenera will cater to the lowest common denominator, I haven't seen anything to make me believe that (as opposed to PE), but I just wanted to correct you on these very important points.
     
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  25. Infinitron I post news Patron

    Infinitron
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    Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    No, delude yourself that PS:T was meant for a "higher common denominator" than ToN.

    Kickstarter games are consciously, intentionally being produced for a selected niche of players - the people willing to back it. Black Isle's games were not.
     
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